ManU aren't in decline!

Villain

Originally posted by The Rooster
Not to mention that United knew Rio was going to get suspended, yet still refused to spend any of their vast millions on defensive back-up during the winter transfer window.

Then Ferguson says on Saturday - the suspension of Rio was the turning point of the season.

Only because you allowed it to be Alex!

Thats because the cocky so and so thought the big lawyers at UTD could get him off.

I really don't understand do why one of the richest clubs in the world dont buy more players, Ronaldino should have been bought and another CD.

The Rooster

Ronaldinho must be one of the biggest cock-ups in United history.

One of the best players (many say THE best at the moment) in the world, really wants to come to your club, but you refuse to pay the money! Despite the fact that you are the richest club in the world.

Whatever about the league, that one decision cost them winning the Champions League this year. The way the draw worked out, no team would have got near them.

spongebob

I am not sure that Ronaldinho would have been an inspired purchase and may have turned into another Veron but at a higher cost.

MU have integrated and assimilated players from Northern Europe ( VN , Solksjaer ....my personal favourite MU player, what a pro ... Cantona , Saha , Silvestre , Kanchelskis ) but not the more Latin ones, (Veron , Young Ronaldo, Kleberson) . They are fairly smart in that respect. Newcastle have not had much luck with their more Southerly player and nor have Liverpool with their Senegalese and whatnot. I think the North of England in winter is what shakes them out. Ya gotta get your 1-1 results away to Blackburn and Sunderland on a wet cold tuesday night in January if you are to win anything . You pick the horse for the course.

Otherwise the team is English/Irish/Welsh (and Scottish normally there are some) .

Then again Bolton could have Okocha and Rivaldo next year, freaky or wha ' and there was the incredible sight of Caniggia in Scotland for a while there

Passing on Ronaldinho may have been good business after all. If he was Dutch or French I'd be more critical .

M

Pepe LeFrits

Originally posted by Devious
Or more accurately, they peaked 5 years ago, dropped down a fraction of a level, have stayed there for five years and if anything, only look like returning to that level or surpassing it, not going in the other direction.

Really, I haven't seen a lot to suggest recently that they are going to win the CL again any time soon. They may well do it again soon but in recent years they've struggled to get near the final.

Originally posted by irish1
Deteriorating ???

Now come on Kaids they have had a bit of a dip if they had been deteriorating for 5 years they'd be mid table and not won the league in a year or two.

That's only if they were seriously deteriorating. When they still have a large number of players that won the CL they are hardly going to drop off the top. Prior to this season Man Utd had never conceded the title twice in 3 years, nor had they finished outside of the top 3 twice in 3 years. Infact, prior to Liverpool pipping them to 2nd spot, had Man Utd ever finished outside of the top 2 in the history of the premiership?

I support Aston Villa and have no affection for Man United what so ever, but I have been watching football long enoug to know Man United are not in decline, they had a bad season but will probably still win the FA CUP and have qualified for Champions league. Given that their best defender was absent for such a large part of the season I think they haven't done that badly, as I have said its more a case of Arsenal and Chelseas raising the bar and United staying still.

I agree, they haven't done that badly, but by their own standards it's been a poor season. This season is the first time since the beginning of the premiership that when United have lost the title that they haven't subsequently won it twice in a row. Since winning the CL they have disimproved in Europe rather than improved.

Arsenal fans should be talking about the rise of their team instead of trying to harp on about UTD's small blip.

This thread isn't about Arsenal, it's about whether Man Utd are in decline. Although yeah, I guess if I disagree with you then I'm "trying to harp on" :rolleyes:

Originally posted by BaZmO*
Kaids, by your reckoning then, if Arsenal "don't" go unbeaten, "don't" win the PL title, "don't" reach the semi-finals of the CL and don't get into the final of the FA Cup next year they will be a club in decline?

B.

No, that's not by my reckoning. Man Utd were at their peak 5 years ago because they won the champions cup while they were still maintaining dominance in their own league, not because they achieved a brilliant and freak success in winning the treble. No team can be expected to pull that off again, even if they improved themselves considerably from when they did it the first time. Their strangehold on English football has been broken in recent years and they've moved further away from winning the CL.

I don't expect Man Utd to go and do a Liverpool but it is evident that they are not the dominant force they once were.

kida

Really, I haven't seen a lot to suggest recently that they are going to win the CL again any time soon. They may well do it again soon but in recent years they've struggled to get near the final.

But for an incorrect linesmans flag it could be United and not Porto in the final this year. They were really unlucky that the sticky path corresponded to the time when the CL knock out stages happened.

Pepe LeFrits

Originally posted by kida
But for an incorrect linesmans flag it could be United and not Porto in the final this year. They were really unlucky that the sticky path corresponded to the time when the CL knock out stages happened.

Sadly for them that's the way football goes sometimes. They were unlucky not to beat Porto but they were pretty disappointing against them over the two legs, and a couple of years ago they would have easily seen off that Porto side.

Villain

Originally posted by kaids
This thread isn't about Arsenal, it's about whether Man Utd are in decline. Although yeah, I guess if I disagree with you then I'm "trying to harp on" :rolleyes:

It's ok to disagree, but I just think you are making the same points over and over, thats what I meant by harping on, apologies if I offended you.

As I have said I think its more to do with teh success of Arsenal and Chelsea that people think UTD have being in a decline, so I dont think its wrong to mention Arsenal or Chelsea.

eirebhoy

Originally posted by PHB
How is this Fergie's fault?

The big two would be not playing Keane when he felt he was fit and not buying a centre half in January. He could have avoided the off field affairs also. Its obviously not completely Fergie's fault and I doubt they would have won the title this year whatever happened.

PHB

Well lets look at the first one, not playing Keane when he thought he was fit.
Lets guess who Fergie is going to listen to,
Keane, who will do anything to play,
The Man Utd Physio, who is a medical expert.

---

The second
Hindsight is a pretty thing isn't it.
Brown was a very good player before his injury.
Most people expected him to be able to come back into the squad with Slyvestre supporting him, also most people expected that the ban would have been lifted to about 3 months, but it wasn't, and thats the way football goes.

eirebhoy

Originally posted by PHB
Well lets look at the first one, not playing Keane when he thought he was fit.
Lets guess who Fergie is going to listen to,
Keane, who will do anything to play,
The Man Utd Physio, who is a medical expert.

I should have played Keane more - Fergie

United boss Alex Ferguson has admitted that he rested skipper Roy Keane too frequently this season - to the detriment of Manchester United's Barclaycard Premiership challenge, which was handed over to Arsenal this term.

Keane started just 25 league games as rivals Arsenal ran away with the championship but Ferguson insists the title race would have been far closer had Keane played a bigger role.

He told the Sunday Times:

"I'm not sure I did the right thing with Roy this season. I overprotected him. You can underestimate Roy Keane.

"We had a chat last summer and obviously we discussed his situation. There were some problems, but it was his first year back after major hip surgery. What I said to Roy at the start of the season was, 'We'll monitor the situation, we'll talk before games; certain games, we won't play you.'

"What happens? The ones I left him out of, we lost the points. Fulham, Middlesbrough, Leeds - three games, we got one point. If we'd won those games we'd have eight points more."

The United boss is adamant Keane still has a major role to play at Old Trafford, and that he remains a unique influence on the pitch and the dressing room.

Asked if the Irishman would be leaving the club to help United rebuild, Ferguson said: "I don't see the need for that. Not at all.

"The big players who have left here, apart from Bryan Robson, who went into management, they never had that Keane factor. Nobody had that Keane factor."

He added:

"What we're going to do with Roy next season, after he's had a good rest this summer, followed by a good pre-season, we're going to work on the basis of how he feels.

"Roy's 33, but there's some players that are playing at 36 and 37 and doing well.

"There is nobody more respected than Roy Keane in this place, and I mean by the players. Because he will do a lot for them. If they have a case to fight he will fight it for them.

"He is an unusual person, he is a different breed of person to your normal footballer of today."

Pepe LeFrits

Originally posted by irish1
It's ok to disagree, but I just think you are making the same points over and over, thats what I meant by harping on, apologies if I offended you.

As I have said I think its more to do with teh success of Arsenal and Chelsea that people think UTD have being in a decline, so I dont think its wrong to mention Arsenal or Chelsea.

Fair enough, I can see where you are coming from. I think it's a combination of the two really; things are never really black and white. Arsenal and Chelsea have certainly improved, but is the current United side really as strong as the one that had the likes of Giggs, Keane and Beckham all playing at their peak, accompanied by Schmeichel, the free-scoring Yorke/Cole partnership, Irwin etc?

jesus_thats_gre

Originally posted by PORNAPSTER
They were champions last year kaids. How can you call that part of a long term dip in form?

Yes cause they were so convincing last year and United did not **** it up in the last handful of games???????????


United were lucky to win the championship that year and it was purely because Arsenal fycked it up. The finished third the previous season and third this season.. Look at their form since the Premisership began:


1st, 1st, 2nd, 1st, 1st, 2nd, 1st, 1st, 1st, 3rd, 1st, 3rd


Note the emergence of 3rd?? Thats a dip over three full seasons!!

Dewey

Lets not forget, Ferguson Won the Premiership last season, they were written off after the 3-1 defect to man city. United just missed out on the semis of the Champions Laegue after beating Madrid 4-3. last season was brilliant, but because United finsh 3rd to an unstoppable Arsenal and billionaires Chelsea that its time for Fergie to go. No, i'm sorry i dont buy that. In January of this year we were 4 points clear of Arsenal with the best defence in England, but Rio decides to start his Ban and the UN-FIT Wes Brown takes his place. So United droped points for that reason.

Then Fergie decides to rest Keane when he didnt need to be rested. but after such a huge hip op, who would of guessed Keane would of been able for 2 games a week.
Buts with important players out missing of course teams will drop points, just look at Newcastle. And about Beckham- he was really poor in his last 2 seasons at United and Fergie had Ole as his replacement but then hw got injuried at the start of the season and he didnt want to use Ronaldo as much cuase he is only 18.

Its been a bad season for United but I'm glad this is the year we have been bad, Because i dont belive anyone could of stopped Arsenal so next season we will have Rio back and maybe 1 or 2 new signings.

Jivin Turkey

United have had a bad season, and Fergie has to take some flack, but to say they are in decline is a bit stupid. When they go 2 seasons without a league title then possibly, but they have never done that. Id wait til this time next year before making any judgements.

As for Quireoz taking over? Look what hes done with Real Madrid, QF of the CL and 2nd in La Liga, hardly great. And Erickson is even worse.

Dewey

Originally posted by Jivin Turkey


As for Quireoz taking over? Look what hes done with Real Madrid, QF of the CL and 2nd in La Liga, hardly great. And Erickson is even worse.

well thats not ture, they are 3rd in La Liga with a game to go. Barcealona are currently second so he has done worst. but i belive he is a go couch but hes not up tp the job as manager.

hoolio

United are in decline,of course they are.The team is getting old,it's as simple as that.

Keane is 33,just cannot play like he used to.Giggs is 30,losing that yard of pace.Beckham is, well,gone.Solskjaer is 31,not as sharp any more.Scholes is 29/30 (??) soon will lose the reaction times and sharpness that his type of player feeds on.Butt is 29, not too old yet,but getting there and not even playing anyway.Going back a few years the Man U midfield was probably Giggs,Keane,Scholes and Beckham,Now those four are respectively degrading/degrading/almost past his peak/gone.And look at the players being brought in:

Forlan - enough said.Kleberson - unfair to judge him so far but what has he shown?David 'Sunderland Reserves' Bellion? Darren Fletcher - dont make me laugh.Liam Miller - never seen what all the fuss is about,i mean this is his breakthrough season in SCOTLAND and he's 23 ffs.Djemba - to be honest i do think he could turn very good.

That said the forwards/defence are in good shape,its the middle of the park thats the problem,it's useless having 2 good strikers and a solid defence if the opposition can waltz through you.The old team was built on an exceptionally good batch of young players and the current team is going downhill and new talent needs to be bought,as none is being bred.With infinite funds i might buy for instance Gerrard,Duff and Aimar.Imagine:

Duff..Gerrard..Aimar..Ronaldo

Bit better then

Bellion..Fletcher..Miller..Ronaldo

isnt it - but that is what Man U are facing in a few years time if they don't spend big.

/me puts on flame proof raincoat and cowers behind desk.

smemon

the team is getting old?

howard, o'shea, ferdinand, brown, fletcher, miller, djemba, ronaldo, bellion, kleberson are all 25 or under of the top of my head, im sure theres more, in fact i know there's more.

van nistelrooy and saha will be around for another 7/8 years too. giggs, scholes, keane are the old heads in the side which no team can do without.

if you add ferdinand and saha alone to the utd side they'll challenge arsenal next season. both missed half a season or more with utd. we've a solid defense, as good as any in the world bar the italians.

midfield is inconsistent on the flanks one word- giggs. ronaldo is a great player on the right and he continues to impress, i'd love to see him being played regularly there. if we can secure a 'duff' or 'van der vaart' on the left our midfield is sorted.

van the man with saha now here gives us our traditional 2 goal machines up front, any signings like smith will just be a bonus. utd are not in decline, plus their not old, have a look at arsenal's ageing side, not too many youngsters in there.

Jivin Turkey

Originally posted by smemon
the team is getting old?

howard, o'shea, ferdinand, brown, fletcher, miller, djemba, ronaldo, bellion, kleberson are all 25 or under of the top of my head, im sure theres more, in fact i know there's more.

look at arsenal's ageing side, not too many youngsters in there.

Lauren 26
Ashley Cole 23
Clichy 18
Toure 23
Edu 26
Gilberto 26
Ljungberg 26
Henry 26
Reyes 21

Plus many other youngsters, Aliadiere, Bentley, Senderos, Pennant, Stack, hardly what Id call ageing.