Nigeria warns about citizenship

zooz

The following article says it all really....

http://archives.tcm.ie/irishexaminer/2004/04/29/story594403581.asp

Nigeria made citizenship abuse warning

By Fionnán Sheahan

THE Nigerian government warned the Taoiseach last year that Ireland’s loose citizenship laws were well-known internationally and were being abused, Bertie Ahern told TDs yesterday.
Defending the Government's holding of the citizenship referendum against criticism from the Human Rights Commission, Mr Ahern told that Dáil the Nigerian leaders wondered why the laws were not being tightened.

After Labour Party leader Pat Rabbitte questioned the necessity for the referendum, Taoiseach Bertie Ahern replied that members of the public wondered why people from southern Nigeria and elsewhere bypass Brussels, London and Paris to come to this country.

"When I spoke with the President and Foreign Minister of Nigeria last year they told me I did not ask them that it was well known around the world that our citizenship laws were easy game.

"They wondered why we did not tighten our laws why we loosened them when everyone else was tightening them," the Taoiseach said.

Mr Ahern also said there are children in schools from various countries and people from many different parts of the world living in our communities.

"People distinguish between the nationalities they like and those they do not like. They form their own views on that, but they do so in a low-key way and there is no great hatred, bitterness or racism in our society. There is no necessity for it," he said.

That Taoiseach added the Attorney General had advised there would be no breach of any laws or of the Good Friday Agreement by amending the Constitution.

Accusing the Minister for Justice Michael McDowell of being dismissive of the Human Rights Commission, Mr Rabbitte called upon the Government to call off the referendum to allow for consultation.

"High-handed intellectual bullying is not a sufficient response to the concerns raised by the Human Rights Commission," he said.

Mr Rabbitte again accused the Government of running the referendum for narrow political gain.

"The Taoiseach knows how potent a force this is in communities where, for example, the queues for housing are lengthening every day.

The Taoiseach understands that. I am not saying that the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform know or understands that the barristers and friends of the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform are not on the housing list," Mr Rabbitte said.

Cork

THE Nigerian government warned the Taoiseach last year that Ireland’s loose citizenship laws were well-known internationally and were being abused, Bertie Ahern told TDs yesterday.

I think such abuses need to be stopped. Leaving aside the hype and emotion - We need to adapt similar citizenship rules that are in operation across the EU.

Tommy Vercetti

The Nigerian Government are in NO position to tell us how to run our legal system.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/2116540.stm
http://www.worthynews.com/christian-persecution/nigeria-women-christian.html
http://www.ageofconsent.com/comments/nigeria.htm
http://usinfo.state.gov/regional/af/a2082903.htm

echomadman

The Nigerian Government are in NO position to tell us how to run our legal system.

Really?
I'd say they have an ideal perspective on the methods used to abuse and find loopholes in international laws.

It is the home of the 419 scam after all.

chewy

very good article adds alot of the the dicussion but one can hardly call the nigerian government a reasoned advisor...

of course they don't more people leaving the coutnry telling others what there up to?

zooz

Originally posted by Tommy Vercetti
The Nigerian Government are in NO position to tell us how to run our legal system.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/2116540.stm
http://www.worthynews.com/christian-persecution/nigeria-women-christian.html
http://www.ageofconsent.com/comments/nigeria.htm
http://usinfo.state.gov/regional/af/a2082903.htm

Nigeria is a federal republic and the above links all relate to Sharia law imposed by different state governments not to the federal government of president Obasanjo.

zooz

Originally posted by chewy
very good article adds alot of the the dicussion but one can hardly call the nigerian government a reasoned advisor...

of course they don't more people leaving the coutnry telling others what there up to?

The move from a military government to a civilian one is not very straight forward and it takes time to go from a society where institutionalised corruption and human rights breaches were the norm to a more democratic one.

chewy

well my actual knowledge of nigeria is pretty limited i have to admit...

but i think my presumptions still stands...

im guessing from the reading those links that there has been recent increase in the power of the muslim community... and the gov arn't doing enough about it....

ugh is the government muslim ???? i dunno ill look that up?

ok so they are moving from a military regime to a "democratic" one but that doesn't mean there isn't a whole new level of corruption and abuse of the population taking place....

you say it takes time well ireland has had a democratic government for a good few years now and its (still) corrupt

a move to democracy an attempt at fair elections it all good.. but to say nigeria is ok place to live and there no eason to want to leave isn't true

ok as i think you problably knew

Religions:
Muslim 50%, Christian 40%, indigenous beliefs 10%

heres a very interesting articel and comments from nigerias etc from bbc...
its a reasonable assesement
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/3155279.stm....

arcadegame2004

Good point about Nigeria knowing about our citizenship-laws being abused. After all who better when so many asylum-seekers come from that country. President Obasanjo is a born-again Christian and certain not motivated by some fanatical Sharia Islamic desire to force Nigerians who have left the country to return to some Talibanistic system. The Sharia law ONLY applies in the Northern half of the country anyway - as someone said it is a federal republic. Nigeria is infamous around the world for the widespread criminal gangs and abuses of immigration systems. The US Government suspended the issue of work-permits to that country because of the falsification/sale/copying of work-permits by those receiving the work-permits. So it is hardly a surprise that so many asylum-seekers are from Nigeria. Those fleeing the extremism of Sharia in the Northern states should just go to the Christian south or stay in the first EU state they enter. WHICH ISN'T IRELAND.

chewy

ok take your point on the president but i don't think you can claim the south of the country is safe either....

you keep point out that ireland isn't the first point of entry and indeed, the point of entry is a concern re illegal immigration isn't it lucky then that we allowed all thos former eatern blokc countries to come in and now they have to deal with the problem instead of us.... problem doesn't go away just moved somewhere else

and as part of the agreements to let the 10 new accession states they have to beef up their borders and build prison-like dentention centres to hold illegal immigrants...ah isn't it great out of sight out of mind


arcade is monetary considerations the only considreations you make?

arcadegame2004

"and as part of the agreements to let the 10 new accession states they have to beef up their borders and build prison-like dentention centres to hold illegal immigrants...ah isn't it great out of sight out of mind " (Chewy)

Where do you get the claim that they have to be "prison-style" places? The detention-centres can be made perfectly comfortable. It's just that these people need to be prevented from breaking the rules by using these new EU states as a transit point to get to the West.

"arcade is monetary considerations the only considreations you make?" (chewy)

No. I am also concerned that those genuinely fleeing persecution should be granted safehaven in the first EU state they enter. Illegal-immigrants, on the other hand, should be deported. It is almost impossible though for someone claiming asylum here to be a legal-migrant however. A look in an atlas will tell you that we are not the first EU country of entry. Monetary considerations must also be in the forefront of our minds however.

We either stop the abuse now, or we repent in leisure in future when the cost becomes far worse.

chewy

ill admit i was up at the mosey place recently and physically the place ain't too bad (but the people still are restricted ) but if we look to australia we'll see how thinga are going ...

do people know of woomera ?

it was the main detention centre for detaning "boat people" in australia: a nation of boat people...

there sites with the photos and stories doens't seem to be working at the mo but i rough it out... i'd prefer to use photos and facts though to back up my claims

basically the people are held there for years in oppressive conditions with regular reports of abuse by the prison guards, the place is set out like a prison double perimeter walls, razor wire .... solitary confinment cells , riot police on call....

woomera is famous because in 2002 protestors form the outside detanies inside got together and broke out of the prison... unfortunately most were recaptured....

i cannot remember the name of the island but it is a fact that the australian government are paying small island nations to build and hold illegal immigrants on their island states, a clear indication that rich nations are pawning off the problem to poorer countries ...

ah found a series of photos http://www.rhproductions.com.au/woomera0.htm

arcadegame2004

Chewy, what evidence have you that Eastern European reception-centres will have the harsh regimes of Australian ones? I'd love a link to such info.

chewy

you said "Where do you get the claim that they have to be "prison-style" places? The detention-centres can be made perfectly comfortable."

perfectly comfortable but people are still begin detained... whic is bad thing (TM)

now you weren't talking about any particular place but ive given some good evidence to show there not so comfy down in australia....

you evade excepting that...


re using poorer countries to get rid of visible problem http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGASA120102001?open&of=ENG-AUS

"Returning from a research mission to Nauru, Amnesty International delegate Dr John Pace said today that, "Off-loading asylum-seekers onto Pacific island nations is an unsustainable and inhumane policy which must be urgently addressed."

"Moreover Dr Pace added, "Diverting boats to other countries in exchange for aid and money amounts to a trade in human misery. The Australian government should instead increase efforts towards an international solution that tackles root causes of refugee movements and people smuggling. It should treat asylum-seekers fairly and humanely, and not push boats away from Australian waters."
"


i hope other people might be reading this not just going between me and arcade

shoudn't post so much on sunday really

arcadegame2004

"you evade accepting that" (Chewy)

I do not. I specifically referred to the regimes of Australian reception-centres as "harsh". But what evidence have you that the European reception-centres will be or are similarly harsh?

arcadegame2004

Chewy, if they are not detained upon arrival within the first EU state of entry, they will head for another EU state with a more generous system which is against the Dublin Convention 1981. This is the rationale behind reception-centres. I would personally allow them to leave if they returned home.

Victor

Originally posted by zooz
The move from a military government to a civilian one is not very straight forward and it takes time to go from a society where institutionalised corruption and human rights breaches were the norm to a more democratic one.

And to think the military haven't been in control in Ireland since about 1923. The shame!

ArthurDent

Quote from the hyperlinked article

"People distinguish between the nationalities they like and those they do not like. They form their own views on that, but they do so in a low-key way and there is no great hatred, bitterness or racism in our society. There is no necessity for it," he said.[Bertie]


Sure and that's great Bertie - what sort of low-key ways would you like to distingish between nationalities we like and don't like - yellow and pink stars perhaps?

Maybe I'm just naive but I'm try to judge people as individuals and not as of one nationality or another.:rolleyes: