ESAT Verbal contract ?

Ronan

We just switched over to ESAT from Eircom for our phone calls. While on the phone, the salesperson asked about the Internet and we said we would be interested in getting IOL anytime(25.99 a month). Yesterday we got the conformation letter from ESAT saying it was switched over (first confimation we received, before that there was no calls, no anything).
Now, since the intial call we have decided just to get anytime 30 (9.99 a month0. So I rang them today to get it changed. They are claiming I have to wait 90 days before I can switch as the 'cooling off' period (10 days) started they day the salesman put the PO in ?

Now this would be all well and good if I had ever signed a contract, but I didn't. They are claiming there is a verbal agreement which is binding for 1 year, and by giving me 90 days they are doing me a favour. Personally after looking at their own terms I think they are talking crap and trying it on.

But has anybody had experience with this or know for sure ? I want to be able to tell them to get stuffed, but if I had something to back me up that would be fantastic.

spongebob

If they said you cannot in the terms and conditions then you may NOT.

If they did not then the cooling/change of mind period should apply really. You are an admin hassle as they must now change the DD's .

M

Ronan

According to the Terms and Conditions

The Customer shall have the right to terminate the Service within five days of signing the Customer Authorisation Form if he wishes to revert to the Access Provider or to switch to another Carrier Pre-Selection provider, provided that the Customer signs a valid contract within this period with his Access Provider or the new Carrier Pre-Selection provider. The Customer shall be liable for any usage charges incurred prior to his cancellation of the CPS Residential Calling Service. No other cancellation charges shall apply.

Now I am no legal eagle, but I don't count asking on the phone the same as signing a contract.

I can find nothing in there about 'Cooling off' periods or changing, so I assume the above text covers it.

I fear you are correct muck, I am a hassle so they are trying to bully me

ChipZilla

And as they say, "A verbal contract isn't worth the paper it's written on". Tell em to take a walk...

bk

I'm no lawyer, but this sounds a bit dodgy.

I'm sure if you make enough noise, they will let you off.

Ask to speak to the complaints department and write to them.

If you get no joy from them, then send Bill Murphy a letter.

It might also be worth contacting The Office of the Director of Consumer Affairs. And let Esat know that you will be contacting them.

The trick is to make it more hastle for Esat not to help you out, then helping you out.

seamus

Originally posted by Ronan
Now, since the intial call we have decided just to get anytime 30 (9.99 a month).

Flat-rate 30. You can only use it offpeak. You'll be billed per minute, at full rate for onpeak surfing. It's also only 25 hours, not 30.

I've seen a lot of people caught out by that.

spongebob

do they have a DD from you in writing , signed and all ?

M

Sar!

Amazin how they think they can get away with that sort of thing now!!!
LOOK BELOW
http://www.oasis.gov.ie/consumer_affairs/distance_selling.html
Tells you exactly why they cannot do that especially this part here!

Consumers are entitled to a cooling-off period of 7 days, which begins on the day that they receive the product. In the case of a service, the cooling-off period begins on the day the contract for distance selling was concluded or the day written confirmation of the contract was received. During the cooling-off period, the consumer can cancel distance contracts without giving a reason and without incurring charges or penalties other than possible charges incurred in returning the goods.

Good ol ESAT really endearing us all to their service they seem to be JUST as bad as EIRCOM!!!! Is it too much to ask for in this country that we actually have some kind of DECENT telecoms service!!!???? They dont have a leg to stand on tho so once again theyre just causing unnecessary headaches!!!

spongebob

I don't think they are as bad as Eircom , ESAT are unintentionally inept rather than systematically evil . Its just that the quality of CS rep they get in Dublin is rubbish at the price and that they cannot afford quality.

Thats why MBNA moved to Leitrim , quality CS people for the same price or less than the rubbish ones in Dublin . ESAT did consider this at one point but seem to have decided to stay put . More fool them. ESAT wil never prosper until they start to decentralise their CS to the West or the Midlands or to lauch new products via CS there and let it expand naturally.

M

Sar!

True true theyre not evil!! I have had way way more problems with EIRCOM than I have ESAT but in saying that wouldnt you think ESAT would give that extra bit better service to gain customers instead of driving them away again - along with the fact that ESAT informed me recently that they are taking over the line rental in two months so that should be TOTAL fun and GAMES!!!

Ronan

Originally posted by Muck
do they have a DD from you in writing , signed and all ?

M

No, nothing has been signed. They just took the Acc details over the phone.

Our man in Havana

Is a direct debit without signature legal?

spongebob

exactly what I was thinking.

M

Ronan

Was just onto Comreg, and apparently it is.

It is TPV (Third Party Verification). Basically while on the phone they ask you do you agree to answer a series of questions (do you want to switch over ec...) once you say yes that is legally a signature. Cute wh***s. I told the Comreg girl (very helpful BTW) that we asked for a written contract and never received one, she told me they don't have to legally send it. All in all there is nothing we can really do, she is contacting ESAT for me with my complaint, but I am not holding my breath.

I also told comreg that I think this is really poor on ESAT's part and not they way to start of a new customer relationship, again she is passing this on.

I'll let you know.

bk

Originally posted by Ronan
Was just onto Comreg, and apparently it is.

It is TPV (Third Party Verification). Basically while on the phone they ask you do you agree to answer a series of questions (do you want to switch over ec...) once you say yes that is legally a signature. Cute wh***s. I told the Comreg girl (very helpful BTW) that we asked for a written contract and never received one, she told me they don't have to legally send it. All in all there is nothing we can really do, she is contacting ESAT for me with my complaint, but I am not holding my breath.

On the contrary, I'd say this will put the wind up them. They don't like this sort of attention, even if it is not illegal, they will usually sort this sort of thing just to shut you up.

However it probably won't change their general policy.

I also told comreg that I think this is really poor on ESAT's part and not they way to start of a new customer relationship, again she is passing this on.

I'll let you know.

Next thing to do is to write a letter to Bill Murphy, CEO Esat, explain what has happened, let him know about how this effects you preception of Esat and the fact that it is a very poor way to start a new customer relationship.

If ou do this, trust me, it will get read and noticed and it will lead to some asses getting kicked further down the chain and may even help to change Esat policy.

You have started very well towards getting this whole situation rectified, good work.

Ronan

Thanks for the vote of confidence and the advice on this. As soon as I hear back from Comreg I shall be writing to Bill Murphy informing him about his customer service. Also I hope this serves as a warning to others, be careful what you agree too.

spongebob

If you sign up for Netsmart directly on the ESAT website you get a letter 'confirming' the details a few days later ...well more like weeks later, it is ESAT after all. ISTR it includes the DD details that were submitted and the package details .

Did you sign up for a door to door geezer ?

M

Ronan

nope on the phone.

machalla

My sister worked for one of the discount phone operators here for a while. You could definitely "sign" a contract over the phone as the conversation was recorded (as I understand it) and proof of the contract is the customer saying yes over the phone to certain conditions.

Not that people are really warned about this to often mind you.

Best of luck with it.

Our man in Havana

Originally posted by machalla
My sister worked for one of the discount phone operators here for a while. You could definitely "sign" a contract over the phone as the conversation was recorded (as I understand it) and proof of the contract is the customer saying yes over the phone to certain conditions.

Not that people are really warned about this to often mind you.

Best of luck with it.

Is a verbal Direct Debit legal? A cheque without signature is invalid.