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Sarin shell 'probably a stray': Blix

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    #32
    Victor
    Registered Users Posts: 78,414 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    Originally posted by bonkey
    Prove it isn't a Libyan shell, smuggled in by terrorists or those looking to support insurgents and fight what they see as an illegal occupation.
    Well it's unlikely to be Libyan - I don't think they have 155mm guns. Of course 155mm is an (originally) American calibre.


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    #33
    Victor
    Registered Users Posts: 78,414 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    Originally posted by Carpo
    Or you could look at the Sarin gas attack on the Tokyo subway in 1995. The conditions were pretty much perfect for a chemical attack ie a lot of people in an enclosed space with inadequate ventilation. Despite this only 27 people died
    12
    Originally posted by Morphéus
    Mobile chemical plants were found
    Whoa! When? Where? Links? Were they Chemical weapon plants?
    Originally posted by Morphéus
    buried illegal MiGs Fighters were found
    Since when are MiGs illegal. NATO countires possess MiGs. Are NATO a threat?
    Originally posted by Morphéus
    what next??
    Lord Lucan.


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    #34
    QBall
    Closed Accounts Posts: 99 ✭✭QBall


    Originally posted by Victor
    Well it's unlikely to be Libyan - I don't think they have 155mm guns.

    According to here they have 100 M114 155mm towed artillery pieces.
    Originally posted by Victor
    Of course 155mm is an (originally) American calibre.

    That statement sounded funny to me[1], so I did a spot of Googling. It was originally a French calibre. The 155mm "Grande Puissance Filloux" was made in 1917. That's the earliest mention of a 155mm artillery piece that I could find.

    /me goes back to lurking

    [1] After all, why would Americans use the metric system? :)


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    #35
    Morpheus
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 2,688 Mod ✭✭✭✭Morpheus


    Originally posted by Victor
    12 Whoa! When? Where? Links? Were they Chemical weapon plants? Since when are MiGs illegal. NATO countires possess MiGs. Are NATO a threat? Lord Lucan.

    The migs were illegal because the Iraqis were forbidden after the Gulf War 1 from having certain types of aircraft in their possession.

    Are NATO a Threat? well that depends on whos side your fighting now doesnt it. :D


    [ Source: http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/4637/chem1.html ]
    SARIN GAS THE WEAPON:
    Sarin, a colorless and odorless gas, has a lethal dose of 0.5 milligram for an adult. It is 26 times more deadly than cyanide gas and is 20 times more lethal than potassium cyanide. Just 0.01 milligram per kilogram of body weight -- a pinprick-sized droplet -- will kill a human. The vapor is slightly heavier than air, so it hovers close to the ground. Under wet and humid weather conditions sarin degrades swiftly, but as the temperature rises up to a certain point, sarin's lethal duration increases, despite the humidity.

    The shell didnt have to come from Libya either ....

    [ Source: http://www.google.ie/search?q=cache:5nEQPPt4bywJ:www.ceip.org/files/projects/npp/resources/DeadlyArsenals/other/IraqChemBioMissileChart.pdf+Sarin+delivery+system&hl=en ]

    DELIVERY SYSTEM
    Artillery shells
    Estimated number before the Gulf War: 30,000
    Munitions unaccounted for :15,000
    As for 155mm guns in Iraq?

    [ Source: http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/rsa/g5.htm ]
    The GC-45 (the "45" denoted the barrel length as 45 calibres, as opposed to 39 calibres for most 155 mm guns used by NATO)

    The GC-45 design was picked up by South Africa and produced under the designation G-5. These saw service against Cuban and FREMELO forces in Angola and some found their way to Israel where they were used to good effect in the Bekka Valley in 1986. NORICUM modified the GC-45 design to suit mass production and marketed it as the GHN-45.

    Iraq was probably the biggest single customer and the GHN-45's dominated the battlefields of the Iran/Iraq war with their great range and the increased lethality of the ERFB projectiles. As the Gulf War loomed, the Coalition forces were concerned since the GHN-45's outranged anything they had. By the end of the ground fighting however, the GHN-45's proved far less effective then anticipated. Coalition air strikes destroyed the Iraqi target acquisition systems and command control facilities. The guns couldn't hit what they couldn't see, and becasue most of their gun tractors had been withdrawn to serve with logistics units in a futile attempt to re-supply the front line troops, they were unable to withdraw. Thus the majority of the guns were destroyed in their gun positions either by Coalition air strikes or Multiple Launched Rocket Systems (MLRS) counter-battery fire.


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    #36
    bonkey
    Registered Users Posts: 15,443 ✭✭✭✭bonkey


    Originally posted by Morphéus
    The migs were illegal

    Yup. They were. There was plenty of illegal stuff there. There were even attempts by Saddam to actually get WMD research up and running again, which was also illegal.

    What they were not was WMDs, which was the reason offered for invasion.

    The shell didnt have to come from Libya either ....

    I'm not questioning that they had shells. I'm not questioning that they had shells with Sarin in them.

    What I am saying is that it was generally believed that they did not have binary mechanism shells with sarin in them, which is what his was.

    It may well have been Iraqi. I'm not questioning that either. What I'm questioning is anyone who insists that it was Iraqi, because that is far from certain.

    jc


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    #37
    Magnolia_Fan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 579 ✭✭✭Magnolia_Fan


    I'd actually have though most of Iraqs weapon were not Iraqi they were Russian, Chineese, Iranian, Syrian, Saudi, Libyan etc. So its possible it was in possesion of The Iraqis. Does anybody else ever feel the urge to punch their T.V screen when Sean Hannity talks? He is the greatest example of a far right radical


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    #38
    Victor
    Registered Users Posts: 78,414 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    Originally posted by Morphéus
    The migs were illegal
    Originally posted by bonkey
    Yup. They were.
    Linkies?
    Originally posted by Magnolia_Fan
    I'd actually have though most of Iraqs weapon were not Iraqi they were Russian, Chinese, Iranian, Syrian, Saudi, Libyan etc.
    Well, probably a majority were of Soviet design, but also Brazilian, Chilean, French, German, British, Italian, Chinese and domestic design. Most of the Soviet designed stuff actually came from the converion of Egypt to western equipment and from Egyptian factories. Quite a bit of the equipment was financed or facilated by the Americans, Saudis and Kuwaitis.


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    #39
    Magnolia_Fan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 579 ✭✭✭Magnolia_Fan


    Yeah I heard alot of American issue guns and grenades etc . were in Iraq from when it looked like Iran was threatening Iraq all those year ago but The Russian equipment in Iraq and Afghanistan are new technology and were not available during the previous Gulf war. I still don't understand how Sadam would let his whole air force be stolen in the early 90's. Has anyone heard anything more about Comical Ali? is he dead or missing?


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    #40
    xm15e3
    Closed Accounts Posts: 165 ✭✭xm15e3


    Comical Ali was busted last year. From what I remember, he was cooperative and released after a couple of days. I've read he's living in Egypt now, and is still questioned occasionally.

    About 98% of his armament is Russian in design, if not manufacture. As for new suff, Kornet missile comes to mind.
    http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/cms.dll/html/uncomp/articleshow?msid=41944774

    There has also been a M1 take a hit from something odd and new. It was has a wicked new shape charge, whatever it was. The crew got out OK, but it made a funny pencil sized hole in one side of the hull and a small crater on the opposite side.

    http://www.armytimes.com/story.php?f=1-292236-2336437.php


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    #41
    sovtek
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,485 ✭✭✭sovtek


    Here's Ritter's take on it...
    http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0521-06.htm

    Oh and I agree....


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    #42
    xm15e3
    Closed Accounts Posts: 165 ✭✭xm15e3


    Ritter's take was about $300K. Seems odd that a man who resigned UNSCOM for not being aggressive enough with Saddam, would accept cash to make a propaganda film for Saddam.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2003/05/04/writt04.xml

    Some time in 97-98 Ritter was compromised, he rhetoric did a 180 from what it was at the time he quite UNSCOM.

    "The inspector, Scott Ritter, said in his resignation letter that the failure to push aggressively ahead with the inspections was 'a surrender to the Iraqi leadership' that made a 'farce' of the commission's efforts to prove Iraq was concealing chemical, biological and nuclear weapons programs.

    Ritter asserted the lack of will stemmed from a policy shift by th e U.N. Security Council and the secretary-general that was backed 'at least implicitly by the United States. He made his resignation letter public in an effort to force the United States and the United Nations to return to a tougher stance"

    http://www.lmtonline.com/news/archive/082798/pagea15.pdf

    He was either bribed, or blackmailed, being that he is a pedophile. Strange how "right wing" US media let all this go down the memory hole.

    http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/01/22/ritter.arrest/


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