[article] They Have'nt Gone Away You Know!

mike65

From Indo -

SINN FEIN merchandise, including an IRA t-shirt and a black ski-hat embroidered with the phrase 'Tiocfaidh Ár Lá', has provided the PDs with ammunition in the run-up to the elections.

Progressive Democrat TD Fiona O'Malley has called on Sinn Fein candidates to "stop the hypocrisy and wear your own clothes" rather than "slick designer suits" out on the hustings.

However, the stunt was dismissed as an "election gimmick" by Sinn Fein TD Aengus O Snodaigh, who said: "The Sinn Fein shop has been open for a number of years and people can come and go."

The PDs yesterday dressed up a dummy in the Sinn Fein official clothing and paraded it on Dublin's Stephen's Green for a photoshoot.

"This is what an honest Sinn Fein candidate would look like. Instead we are getting designer-look campaign posters," explained Ms O'Malley.

The items had been purchased by her colleague, Roscommon councillor Hugh Lynn, who paid a trip to the official Sinn Fein shop and purchased some €60 of merchandise which included an IRA Undefeated T-Shirt, a black windcheater embroidered with the 'Tiocfaidh Ár Lá' logo and a 'Sniper at Work' lapel pin.

He also purchased a CD entitled 'Stuff Your Commission' - of which the lyrics include the chorus: "No semtex nor our guns will you ever get from us, You can stick your decommission up your a**."

Cllr Lynn said he had been 'shocked' by the inflammatory nature of the items on sale.

Sinn Fein TD, Aengus O Snodaigh said the dressing up of the dummy had been a 'gimmick' designed to clash with the launch of their campaign for a No vote in the referendum on citizenship.

Nicola Anderson

SF may call it a stunt but the gear in the shop was real and the attitudes behind the label badge slogans are real enough so whats the problem Aengus?

Mike.

Villain

Originally posted by mike65
From Indo -



SF may call it a stunt but the gear in the shop was real and the attitudes behind the label badge slogans are real enough so whats the problem Aengus?

Mike.

Cheap election stunt, as it was stated the shop has been opened for years and its only in the run up to an election that the PD's decide to raise this.

/waiting

For the SF bashing to start all over again and reefbreak and cork to say the same things over and over again

/waiting

Sand

Question: Why are SF, a wholly respectable political party with a democratic mandate and absolutely no connection to the IRA or their activities selling IRA branded merchandise?

I am tired of hearing SF dodge the difficult questions being put to them by resorting to "gimmick" and " stunt". Maybe it is, the question still stands?

The only conclusion you can draw is that a vote for Sinn Fein is a vote for the Warrington bombers.

sceptre

I'm going to skip the SF bashing, though part of me quite likes the possibility of doing SF and PD in one post. Especially the PDs.

I see O'Sondaigh stayed away from the phrase "cheap publicity stunt", although if they managed to get that amount of gear for 60 euros the shop doesn't appear to be price-gouging.

If the stuff's on sale (and it is), can anyone think of a basis for O'Snodaigh's complaining other than a whinge that someone might not vote for someone as a result of a patent fact being publicised? After all, the stuff /is/ on sale.

Villain

Originally posted by Sand
Question: Why are SF, a wholly respectable political party with a democratic mandate and absolutely no connection to the IRA or their activities selling IRA branded merchandise?

Its clothing for god sakes.

Originally posted by Sand
I am tired of hearing SF dodge the difficult questions being put to them by resorting to "gimmick" and " stunt". Maybe it is, the question still stands?

Sand I dont think that Sinn Fein are doing themselves any good by selling such articles but its part of their history, It would be a lot more concerned if they were supplying guns or semtex, a few songs and t-shirts wont hurt anyone.

And Sand
I'm tired of people saying things like this:

Originally posted by Sand

The only conclusion you can draw is that a vote for Sinn Fein is a vote for the Warrington bombers.

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

Villain

Originally posted by daveirl
So you think that Orangemen walking down Garvaghy Road is acceptable then? A few songs about an event 400 years ago won't hurt anyone will it?

You have the CHOICE to walk in and buy the articles, people on the Garvaghy Road do not have the choice of whether or not they want the Orange order to walk outside their homes.

Daveirl I dont think you can compare the two at all.

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

Villain

Originally posted by daveirl
Yes you can compare the two. I don't have a choice if the person walking against me down the street is wearing a shirt that basically endorses the killing of innocents and the person on Garvaghy doesn't have a choice.

Both actions are inciteful and hate filled.

Your comparing 1 person wearing a t-shirt to the Orange Order marching through your estate????

Come on seriously:dunno:

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

Villain

Originally posted by daveirl
Yes I am. It wasn't me who said "a few songs and t-shirt never hurt anyone" One rule for them and another for us is it?

So are you claiming that there aren't hundreds of victims of the IRA who wouldn't be offended by people wearing those t-shirts? I'm not claiming that the Orange Order aren't offensive at all. Just claiming that someone wearing a Sniper at Work t-shirt is offensive.

Well if a few hundred of IRA supporters marched through a mainly Unionists area wearing the T-Shirts and singing those songs yes then of course they would, I really can't see how you can compare

I don't have a choice if the person walking against me down the street is wearing a shirt that basically endorses the killing of innocents

With:

Orangemen walking down Garvaghy Road

I mean its completely different.

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

Villain

Originally posted by daveirl
I never said they were identical. I just said they were comparable. I'm not the one back peddling here.



So the T-Shirts could be offensive then? I thought it was just "clothing for God sakes"

Peddling?? lol

I said in regards to one off people buying them not a few hundred people marching through a Unionist estate with them, which I said would be offensive, sorry if you wanted me to say thats ok and increase your moral high ground.

You compared the 2 and I said they weren't comparable, youve gone as far as saying there not identical so why just agree there not compareable??:D

Peddling :rolleyes:

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

Villain

Sorry daveirl just being a while since I peddled anywhere

Can I see your point of view and as I said earlier:

Originally posted by irish1
I dont think that Sinn Fein are doing themselves any good by selling such articles but its part of their history, It would be a lot more concerned if they were supplying guns or semtex, a few songs and t-shirts wont hurt anyone.

BuffyBot

Election gimmick or not, doesn't negate the fact they they are for sale.

It would make you wonder about exactly how serious SF take things at times :dunno:

David-[RLD]-

Fascinating...

So what if they're on sale? It's just clothes. What if someone wore a pro-Bush t-shirt? That's supporting the torture and killing of innocents; look what the US army did in Iraq.

"Tiocfaidh ár Lá" is a slogan. A slogan! That's all! It doesn't matter if it's the slogan of an "illegal organisation". It doesn't insult anyone, it just says 'our day will come'. What's the harm in that?

/me waits for ReefBreak to burst in wearing his underpants on the outside and an 'RF'-emblazoned cape.

David-[RLD]-

BTW it doesn't matter if Sinn Féin sell them. Just go to T-Shirt Print and for just over €20 you can get a t-shirt with any slogan you want.

Meh

Originally posted by David-[RLD]-
So what if they're on sale? It's just clothes. What if someone wore a pro-Bush t-shirt? That's supporting the torture and killing of innocents; look what the US army did in Iraq.

"Tiocfaidh ár Lá" is a slogan. A slogan! That's all! It doesn't matter if it's the slogan of an "illegal organisation". It doesn't insult anyone, it just says 'our day will come'. What's the harm in that?

The point is that on the one hand, Sinn Fein claim to be a respectable democratic peaceful political party with no connections whatsoever to the IRA or terrorism. On the other hand, the official Sinn Fein shop sells IRA-branded merchandise. Do you see the contradiction here?

My problem isn't that Sinn Fein are selling the t-shirts -- while I personally find them distasteful and offensive, it's a free country and people have a right to wear what they want. No, my problem is with the hypocrisy and doublethink coming from Sinn Fein, where they simultaneously claim to be democrats and at the same time support illegal anti-democratic terrorist organizations.

BTW it doesn't matter if Sinn Féin sell them. Just go to T-Shirt Print and for just over €20 you can get a t-shirt with any slogan you want.

What's your point? T-Shirt Print aren't standing for election. Again, my problem is not with the t-shirts themselves. Just to reiterate:

• Sinn Fein sell IRA t-shirts - OK by me
• Sinn Fein claim to be a democratic peaceful normal political party - OK by me
• Sinn Fein try to do both of the above at the same time - not OK

Redleslie2

It's always funny when people who support the Iraq war complain about SF's association with naughty violence, especially after US troops just controversially liberated a village wedding or whatever.

SF should point out what a fine advert for PDesque privatisation and deregulation Abu Ghraib prison is or something.

mike65

Redleslie2 - Lazy arguement must do better.

Mike.

Victor

The items had been purchased by her colleague, Roscommon councillor Hugh Lynn, who paid a trip to the official Sinn Fein shop and purchased some €60 of merchandise which included an IRA Undefeated T-Shirt, a black windcheater embroidered with the 'Tiocfaidh Ár Lá' logo and a 'Sniper at Work' lapel pin.

Headline

PDs finanacing [strike]IRA[/strike] Sinn Féin

Redleslie2

Originally posted by mike65
Redleslie2 - Lazy arguement must do better.

Mike.

I realise that you're the king of the asinine one line posts so you probably know a lazy argument when you see one, but why?

mike65

It's always funny when people who support the Iraq war complain about SF's association with naughty violence, especially after US troops just controversially liberated a village wedding or whatever.

SF should point out what a fine advert for PDesque privatisation and deregulation Abu Ghraib prison is or something.

Well because the thread is about the IRA and SF (can't really part the two it seems) NOT iraq or indeed anywhere/anything else.

If you're going to post keep to the subject rather than doing what SF members do - distract and dissemble.

Mike.

TheMuckyArab

Hey i`m all against socialism(being a rich and greedy bastard myself) but the PD's are going to far on the Sinn Fein bashing.

As the SF'er said it`s all about period in time, before we were taught about the heroes of 16, what's the diffrence?

The Provisionals did`nt wake up one day and decide the "take back the north", they provided protection for their people, who's fathers , brothers and sons were being intered and tortured(What makes me laugh is the British Army goes on thats what the stuff they did in Iraq once a once off), and all this apparent proof McDowell has provided us with has yiether yet to be substaniated, or is like that brilliant IMC report, which most comically had three lads the Provo`s wewre supposed to have killed, but up until then their families had been informed they had died in accidents(which they did), and one died in RUC custody!

See this for what it is a PD stunt done by Mr. McDowell who is nothing but an opportunist, combining this with his racial referendum(which as a mucky arab I don`t feel partial to ;-) )

DEPORT MCDOWELL- cause he a stinker and just plain rude, forget about the politics.

AmenToThat

Originally posted by mike65
From Indo -



SF may call it a stunt but the gear in the shop was real and the attitudes behind the label badge slogans are real enough so whats the problem Aengus?

Mike.

I would imagen hes point is about the timing as has been said here by others.
The shinners have been selling this stuff for years and no one batted an eye now suddenly its big news...................

Seems like a desperation stunt by the PDs to me.

BlitzKrieg

wouldnt IRA merchandise be similer buying merchandise based off the confederate army from the american civil war? Though i can see it being more offensive because of the timespan is much shorter...


on the double standards of Sinn fien...

the way i see it they get their votes from 2 main sources. People generally in support of their policies and political goals.

and people who see them as the most nationlistic of the parties of ireland because of their connection with the IRA and in the north.


and as a political party standards go out the window when it comes to getting more votes...so appeal to both sides of the coin and if you pull it off i applaud you...

gandalf

Well as much as I hate the PD's cheap election stunts especially if that useless lump of "My Daddy was in Politics" Fiona O'Malley is involved they have highlighted the hypocrasy of Sinn Fein.

On one hand we are to believe that they are working with the Peace process to bring NI to a brighter future but on the other they are celebrating an organisation that was involved in terror campaigns and sectarian killings. Sinn Fein is an organisation that claim not to have direct connections with the IRA yet they are selling goods that are branded with the IRA's name and celebrating its killing of others. I like many other believe that many leading members of Sinn Fein are still involved in the IRA, we do know of some that have been in the past.

I agree with the assessment of others here, if you vote for Sinn Fein you are voting for an organisation that has a private army, an army that seems to be out of control and involved in Racketeering. I would prefer not to vote for murderers.

I saw someone mention the heroes of 1916 and try and compare them with the current IRA. There is no comparison. The current bunch are just a crowd of Mafioso using a brand name to appear more attractive to the gullible.

ReefBreak

Originally posted by irish1
Cheap election stunt, as it was stated the shop has been opened for years and its only in the run up to an election that the PD's decide to raise this.

/waiting

For the SF bashing to start all over again and reefbreak and cork to say the same things over and over again

/waiting

First of all, I have no problem repeating the thing over and over again, simply because I believe that the memory of those murdered by SF/IRA is worth far more than than anything that Sinn Féin may promote on the front of a blood-thirsty t-shirt. (Yes, here we go again). Aengus may call it a gimmick, I applaud the PDs for being the only party that reminds the public what the Sinn Féin/IRA were resonsible for - the murder of hundreds of innocent people.

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

Villain

Originally posted by ReefBreak
Aengus may call it a gimmick, I applaud the PDs for being the only party that reminds the public what the Sinn Féin/IRA were resonsible for - the murder of hundreds of innocent people.

ReefBreak I really resent the way you blaim Sinn Fein for the murders of hundreds of innocent people.

Sinn Fein are a polictical party with LINKS to the IRA they are not the same organisation.
If I wanted to draw comparisons maybe I could say that the FF/Bush administration is responsible for the killing of hundreds of inoccent people in Iraq and the torture and murder of prisioners.

However I have enough of an understanding to see that even do FF have supported the Bush war in Iraq by allowing thousands of Soldiers to use Shannon airport, they are not the same organisation they are simply 2 groups with LINKS.