[article] They Have'nt Gone Away You Know!

swiss

12 Angry Men it is. A classic. You get a gold star.

/me tries to drag the thread back on topic

Mighty_Mouse

Why are SF, a wholly respectable political party with a democratic mandate and

Yes

absolutely no connection to the IRA or their activities selling IRA branded merchandise

Whats this "no connection" to the IRA lark?
These tee-shirts have made the fine Sunday World front pages before. I dont see what the problem is. Is anyone here wearing a Che Geuvara teeshirt from Brown Thomas?

So you think that Orangemen walking down Garvaghy Road is acceptable then?

You think this is the same as a teeshirt? :eek:

A few songs about an event 400 years ago won't hurt anyone will it?

I dont see how music is the problem here. Do you proposed to ban protest music? Personally i dont have a problem with the right of Orangemen to sing King Billy songs. I a fair an equal society i would expect them to disappear over time though.

I don't have a choice if the person walking against me down the street is wearing a shirt that basically endorses the killing of innocents and the person on Garvaghy doesn't have a choice.

Ok its the fact that the Orangemen were wearing loyalist teeshirts that was the problem in Gervaghy Road! Those nationalists just dont have any respect for Loyalist teeshirts!!

It would make you wonder about exactly how serious SF take things at times

yes Sinn Fein are not committed to the 10 year cease fire, decommissioning, "war is over", apologies, etc because their republican store sells a "Thiocfaidh ..." tee-shirt!!

Sinn Fein claim to be a respectable democratic peaceful political party with no connections whatsoever to the IRA

Do they?

Sinn Fein sell IRA t-shirts - OK by
Sinn Fein claim to be a democratic peaceful normal political party - OK by me
Sinn Fein try to do both of the above at the same time - not OK

Because they sell a republican teeshirt. Do FF have references to 1916?

Redleslie2 - Lazy arguement must do better.

How "mike"-like . is he to young? uneducated? missed "tory"-summer-school?How dare he express an opinion when he's clearly rift-raft!

blood-thirsty t-shirt.

wow, rodents, vile, murderers, scum ....... (unlike you to slip in to Doctor-mode)

Have SF ever condemned or dis-associated themselves from the bombings, murders or punishment beatings committed by the IRA

No, so whats the surprise with the teeshirt?

How much power over the US Army does FF have?

Shannon...........dissassociation as mentioned above.

Firstly the Irish government have condemned the war.

I actually didn't know this. Has anybody further info on it?

a) a) Don't think there is any member of SF who is in the IRA.

b) Don't think that any of the top members in SF are on the Army Council of the IRA.

c) Don't think the IRA has been behind any punishment beatings since they went on ceasefire

IMO a)Member of the party? or elected rep? Anyways the IRA doesnt function anymore so whats the problem?
b) severly doubt it
c)yes is a problem. ans = patten

He said FF td's glorified their grandfathers roles back in the 20's so why couldn't SF do the same now or words to that effect.

I responded to this in previos post but a little bit of mercury's wowness has hit me on the second read.

Talk about the pot calling the kettle black ass ie some have no problem justifying the IRA "war" even though it was always illegal yet they complain about the war in Iraq

Its to do with occupation, murder, oppression and which side of it the innocent party is on.

So why do you think it is reluctant to give up its weapons?

Million an one time!! They have and do you have a better solution to the current situation. ie how long is a piece of string? Decommisioning can never be final because the likes of you will never accept it as such.

SF have an office in Cuba do they not Are they communists too then by extension?

SF have quite public links with Cuba. Most freedom fighters and revolutionists around the world have connections with other similar situaiton groups.

I find it interesting that this report should coincide with the Independent monitoring commission's report on the activities of paramilitary organisations such as the IRA and the LVF.

Do you accept any of the arguments made by republicans about the IMC report?

Redleslie2

Weird, I was thinking of 12 Angry Men the other day and it struck me that there's a few Lee J.Cobbs (Juror #3) around here, lots of displaced aggression.

Mercury_Tilt

This post has been deleted.

Rock Climber

Originally posted by Mercury_Tilt

As for including the unioist vote..well... thats just silly.

Ah you have to include everybody, a border poll wouldn't be just for the nationalists
have to say, one downside of the peace process, I've noticed is that all those fine strappin soldiers are mostly confined to barracks now... I'm thinkin of bookin me holidays in Basra

AmenToThat

Originally posted by Earthman
That is not a mandate.
A mandate is where your electorate democratically direct you to do something.
The IRA never had that.

This petty point scoring over the correct wording is becoming silly at this stage.
The IRA had the legimate right to fight for the communties from which they drew widespread support!
Happy now?

BuffyBot

legimate

Ah, now there's the rub.

Originally posted by AmenToThat
This petty point scoring over the correct wording is becoming silly at this stage.
The IRA had the legimate right to fight for the communties from which they drew widespread support!
Happy now?

Not particularlly.
I can understand why some people supported the IRA given the ha ha attitude of the unionists,one house one vote,intimidation,udr,etc,etc.
But their campaign of shooting, bombing, maiming etc etc etc was not the way to go.
It was and is wrong,wrong,wrong.
I'll leave others to tackle you on your statement that they had the legitimate right to fight, while I quietly walk away in disgust.

Mighty_Mouse

I'll leave others to tackle you on your statement that they had the legitimate right to fight, while I quietly walk away in disgust.

I'm presuming part of your disgust is your fundamental opposition to voilence? If so, I disagree. I bellieve that there are situations where voilence is necessary in order to enact change and that voilence is often a last resort for people. Its unavoidable in certain circumstances. e.g. south africa, cuba etc

ReefBreak

Originally posted by AmenToThat
This petty point scoring over the correct wording is becoming silly at this stage.
The IRA had the legimate right to fight for the communties from which they drew widespread support!
Happy now?

I'm presuming part of your disgust is your fundamental opposition to voilence? If so, I disagree. I bellieve that there are situations where voilence is necessary in order to enact change and that voilence is often a last resort for people. Its unavoidable in certain circumstances. e.g. south africa, cuba etc

Fighting for a community? Does this include blowing up innocent civilians in pubs in Birmingham, or burning people to death at La Mon, or blowing limbs off innocent people at Enniskillen, or Shankill, or Claudy?

Mighty_Mouse

Does this include blowing up innocent civilians in pubs in Birmingham, or burning people to death at La Mon, or blowing limbs off innocent people at Enniskillen, or Shankill, or Claudy?

When a society is desperate enough to turn to voilence do you not expect tradegies?

bonkey

Originally posted by AmenToThat
The IRA had the legimate right to fight for the communties from which they drew widespread support!
Happy now?

Not really, because what you're saying is more or less a tautology. The IRA's "widespread support" still consists of a vast minority of the population.

You're basically saying that violence is justifiable as long as a majority of your supporters support you, democracy and everything else be damned.

That may not be what you're trying to say, but I can't second-guess justifications you haven't made yet

jc

Hairy Homer

Originally posted by Redleslie2
Weird, I was thinking of 12 Angry Men the other day and it struck me that there's a few Lee J.Cobbs (Juror #3) around here, lots of displaced aggression.

Rotten POSTERS!!!! You work your life out.........

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

sceptre

Originally posted by daveirl
I was away being a thicko for the week.

Exams go well then?

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

Cork

If SF wants to sell IRA paraphanalia - thats their choice.

What profits does SF get from selling this stuff?

But what does SF think about the feelings of the familys of the victims of IRA violence?

It is a pity that they don't also sell copies of the IMC report.

Mercury_Tilt

This post has been deleted.

Mighty_Mouse

Sometimes I can't resist rising to Corks bait!!!

If SF wants to sell IRA paraphanalia - thats their choice.

Kind of you

What profits does SF get from selling this stuff?

What does it matter if its their choice?

But what does SF think about the feelings of the familys of the victims of IRA violence?

It's apologised to all innocents. I'm sure the IRA think the voilence was necesary at the time. As for "feelings" !

It is a pity that they don't also sell copies of the IMC report

Yes why dont they start selling copies of an ad-hoc,unreprepresentative, politically motivated report !!! A sure way to drive the process forward! Does FF even regonise the report Cork?

Cork

Originally posted by Mighty_Mouse
It's apologised to all innocents. I'm sure the IRA think the voilence was necesary at the time.

Yes, planting a bomb in a trash can really said much about the IRA. SF's constant refusal to condemn such acts is also telling.

If SF had any respect for the victims of ira violence - they would not be selling this stuff.

If Gerry Adams was convinced of the quality of this merchandise - Why does he not wear some of this merchandise?

I really don't see any SF election canidates wearing such attire. It is an insult to victims and the politics of inclusion.

John Hume was a statesman. Could you imagine the SDLP selling tribal nick nacks?

Mighty_Mouse

Yes, planting a bomb in a trash can really said much about the IRA

That they were fighting a war?

SF's constant refusal to condemn such acts is also telling.

Yes, a real give-away.

If Gerry Adams was convinced of the quality of this merchandise - Why does he not wear some of this merchandise?

Its a couple of tee-shirts which some republicans like and some dont. Its really not a big deal IMO

John Hume was a statesman. Could you imagine the SDLP selling tribal nick nacks?

As much respect as I know I should try to have for J Hume I'm sure Sinn Fein will be happy to be told they are nothing like the SDLP

ReefBreak

Originally posted by Mighty_Mouse
That they were fighting a war?

Putting a bomb in a pub/city-centre/hotel (and detonating it from a safe distance) is not fighting a war, it's terrorism. If you think otherwise, you're a fool. But then again, I wouldn't expect any better. It's blatantly obvious from your ignorance of IRA atrocities that you care very little about what happens when innocent civilians get limbs blown off them or are burned to death, such as what happened at Omagh, or Enniskillen. That, or you're young and naive and bought the vile propaganda being sold by Sinn Féin.

Originally posted by Mighty_Mouse
As much respect as I know I should try to have for J Hume I'm sure Sinn Fein will be happy to be told they are nothing like the SDLP

I'm sure the SDLP will be glad to know that they're nothing like a party that have links to murderous terrorists.

Mighty_Mouse

Putting a bomb in a pub/city-centre/hotel (and detonating it from a safe distance) is not fighting a war, it's terrorism.

so there wasn't a war in NI?

It's blatantly obvious from your ignorance of IRA atrocities

I wouldnt consider myself ignorant of IRA activity

limbs blown off them or are burned to death

rodents, vile, murderers, people blasted to bits, torn apart, savages, twisted mutilators, torn limb from limb, sound of skin and bone, smel of burning carcasses..............murderers murderers murderers......................Are you sure you don't write for the Sunday World Reefbreak?

Omagh, or Enniskillen

Yes lets just drop those two names together when talking about the IRA!!

That, or you're young and naive and bought the vile propaganda being sold by Sinn Féin

So only young simpletons or vile twisted old men are republicans. I think if you ever bothered to speak with some republicans you would find different.

Cork

Originally posted by Mighty_Mouse
As much respect as I know I should try to have for J Hume I'm sure Sinn Fein will be happy to be told they are nothing like the SDLP

SF are nothing like the SDLP. The SDLP are an inclusive party that have always believed in democratic means.

Let SF sell IRA nick nacks. It really is telling about SF.

Villain

Originally posted by Cork
Let SF sell IRA nick nacks. It really is telling about SF.

Yep and Let Bertie continue to break Pre Election promises which might actually affect us Citizens of Ireland, its real telling about FF.

I'm working in Waterford at the moment and noticing a lot of house windows have a sign saying

NO Radiotherapy NO Votes

I think these issues are just a tad bit more important than SF shops selling some T-Shirts and CD's.

But hey god forbid Cork would actually address FF's political downfalls that are affecting us, nah just bash SF cos they have a dark past and sell a few T-Shirts and CD's about it.:rolleyes:

arcadegame2004

Irish1, if one of your relatives had been killed by the IRA, I wonder would you then take kindly to SF members traypsing up and down the streets of Ireland wearing those T-Shirts.

Villain

Originally posted by arcadegame2004
Irish1, if one of your relatives had been killed by the IRA, I wonder would you then take kindly to SF members traypsing up and down the streets of Ireland wearing those T-Shirts.

Please show me links to pics showing current SF MEMBERS wearing these t-shirts.

Otherwise your statement is purely speculative and overhyped as it usually is when peope here bash SF

Cork

Originally posted by irish1


I'm working in Waterford at the moment and noticing a lot of house windows have a sign saying

Well if the IRA stopped their fuel rackets - they would be more revenue for health.

SF selling this stuff clearly highlighs SFs atitude the the victims of IRA violence.

How much does SF make from selling this stuff?

Villain

Originally posted by Cork
Well if the IRA stopped their fuel rackets - they would be more revenue for health.

SF selling this stuff clearly highlighs SFs atitude the the victims of IRA violence.

How much does SF make from selling this stuff?

lol, that has to be the funiest reply from you ever.

Maybe talk to McDowell he seems to know alot about the IRA rackets but for some unknown reason can't arrest anyone??? He's the Minister for Justice and all he does is talk tough do Feck all.

I would love if were FF to come down to waterford and tell the cancer patients

Sorry we can't put in the Radiotherapy unit because we dont have enough money coz the IRA are running fuel rackets that are bleeding the economy dry, oh did we tell you we spent 52 million on e-voting

Cork

You seem oblivious to how much money that SF is making from selling this stuff?
You choose not even to comment on the feelings of the IRAs many victims.
You then highlight cancer treatment in the South East as some kind of smoke screen.


This tread is called:

[article] They Have'nt Gone Away You Know!

Could somebody let me know if SF sells a report called ""Confronting the Threat: Serious and Organized Crime in Northern Ireland"?