radar guns ILLEGAL

the evil belly

cork district court has ruled that radar guns are illegal. just heard it on 2fm. apparantly it's because they produce no record of the speed thats is required by existing law in order to allow someone to prepare a defence. the government has said it'll close the loophole in the new road traffic act. i was wondering why there was no speed checks on the cork dublin road on saturday. usually pass 1 or 2 at some point on the journey.

ando

do you have any links or data to this story?

the evil belly

i'll have a look around. i was literally typing that post as i was listening to it on the radio here next to me

Mr E

http://www.breakingnews.ie/2004/05/24/story149067.html

the evil belly

identical text is on ireland online. won't bother posting it or the links it's all in the other link

seamus

They're not illegal :rolleyes:

I'm sure the Government will try sort this one out quite soon, it's a dangerous loophole to leave open. I'm pretty sure there'll be a rash of morons happy to speed, safe in the knowledge that they can't legally be prosecuted.

I'd say there's a few people out there who can't believe their luck that their points might be struck off.

the evil belly

ok maybe they not illegal. i was typing that as i listen to the news so i was probably a bit hasty.

Merrion

Surely if the Garda had noted down the speed in his notebook this would have been enough - like if he had been seen by a Garda committing any other driving offense?

the evil belly

the judge didn't seem to see it that way for whatever reason. i think it's only fair that the burden of proof be on the gardai not the motorist as in any other offence

Pataman

Those people are not out of the woods yet, the government is going to appeal it and rightly so.

Standard Toaster

extract: Today's Irish Independent

THE Government pledged last night to change the law rather than let the penalty points system collapse in the wake of a landmark court case which rejected Garda radar guns as legally unreliable.

Legal advice is being sought from the Attorney General over any necessary changes to the Road Traffic Act following a district court judge's dismissal of a speeding offence on the basis of a radar gun reading.

Judge Con O'Leary dismissed the case at Cork District Court on the grounds that a radar gun does not produce any actual record of the speed in question, required under the Act to allow the defendant prepare a defence.

The ruling appeared to threaten the basis of much of the penalty points scheme. However, the Government last night pledged that it would change existing legislation or incorporate changes into the new Road Traffic Bill 2004 coming before the Dail shortly.

If necessary, separate legislation will be drawn up to close the loophole. The new Road Traffic Bill wraps up outstanding elements such as banning the use of hand-held phones by drivers.

The Department of Transport warned it would challenge bids by motorists to have their slate wiped clean of penalty points in similar cases. However, another such case has been adjourned with a ruling due in July.

Under current legislation, motorists faced with incurring penalty points are entitled to a printed document indicating the offending speed in case they wish to challenge the finding. Garda radar guns are not capable of producing such a record.

A Department of Transport spokesperson warned it "would appeal any speeding cases successfully won on these grounds and will also consider taking a test case before the High Court seeking clarity on the issue".

Departmental statistics show over 95pc of total penalty point notifications issued up to April 6 last related to speeding. The majority of the 133,565 offences were detected by radar guns.

The department spokesperson told the Irish Independent yesterday that the Act requires documentary evidence which could relate to the summons arriving in the post. However, it could also be interpreted as a print-out from the radar gun.

The controversy first arose when a motorist appeared before Cork District Court judge, Con O'Leary, in March charged with driving at 80mph in a 60mph zone on the Mallow Road, Cork on June 5 last year.

A summons was issued but the motorist, Cork man John McGovern, successfully argued that he should have been given a record of his speed to allow him prepare his defence. Judge O'Leary agreed and, warning all radar gun prosecutions were equally flawed, dismissed the case.

In a second case, Dun Laoghaire solicitor Barry McCarthy represented himself before Judge Michael Pattwell in Mitchelstown District Court two weeks ago charged with driving at 73mph in a 50mph zone in Co Cork. He was issued with a fixed notice but never given a copy of the radar gun's actual reading. That case has been adjourned until July 2.