Upgrade, advice please

Flashman

Hi, I'll be getting a few bits and pieces in about a months time to mess around with over the summer, and create a powerful gaming machine. I was hoping people might have suggestions or advice on my selection:
Innovaset Watercoolinghttp://www.hitide.ie/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/21_22_37/products_id/174
Is this the best kit available at the moment, and will it cool everything eg cpu, chipset, gpu and possibly hds? Also which waterblocks should I get for gpu and chipset? Size and power consumption may also be important, as it will be going into an Antec Sonata case. Will the 380w psu be enough?
I'm planning to pick up 2x 37gb Raptors and one of ati's x800 pros.

At the base of this system is a 2.2ghz mobile p4, 1gb 3200 ram and either an Abit IS7 or IC7. The ram needs to be changed eventually to allow for higher fsbs, maybe I'll deal with that too. I thought I heard some noise about higher fsbs eg 260+ causing raid to stop working?

Cheers

CombatCow

Firstly hitide are great to deal with,i got the Complete-Kit innovaSET XXS Socket 478 / A / 754 and it's really great quality.This kit has a better cpu waterblock then the XS kit and is the same price.Tho it will only cool the cpu you will need to get the chipset cooler seperate (http://www.hitide.ie/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/21_22_39/products_id/52 ) Same goes for the hdd cooler,but you can easily keep adding to the system to spread out you funds if you cant afford all that kit at once. As for the graphics card waterblock - because those cards are so new i doubt you will get a waterblock for it right now.As for the pump it dosen't use much power, 5watts iirc.

CombatCow

secret_squirrel

Originally posted by Flashman
I thought I heard some noise about higher fsbs eg 260+ causing raid to stop working?

I think thats only on boards that dont have working AGP/PCI locks. As long as you can fix the AGP and PCI buses at 66/33 mhz yer sorted. Just dont quote me on that

Theres a big piece on that on Tomshardware as it relates to the Nforce3 150 AMD64 chipset. (Not relevant to you but might be good background)

Flashman

Xxs it is then by the looks of things. Hopefully there will be a suitable gpu waterblock by the time I'm in the us in july, but I think the mounting holes are the same as the previous generation. When there is a cpu block, a gpu block and a chipset block does this not mean that hot water is circulating throught the sytem?

secret_squirrel, is that when running sata from a pci card? What about from the mobo? Should I get a sata card instead of using the onboard connectors?

CombatCow

Sure the more components you add to the watercooling circut the more heat is gonna get transferred into the water,thats what the radiator is for,the water passes through it and a fan sucks air (preferably) through the rad fins to cool the water. If you need more info the hitide staff are really helpful. http://www.hitide.ie/catalog/contact_us.php

Good luck

CombatCow

Col_Loki

Ive Ran my system with the 380w Antec, its a good PSU and pretty damm quiet. Your system might be too much for it, i know it was having a little trouble with mine when it was heavily overclocked with the 9700pro aswell........ hard to call TBH.

To be sure you could get the 450w Versions, of decent brands........see the sticky.

XXS kit is a decent kit alrite, good performer and good quality. Last time i checked the innovatek kits were almost the best on the market.......

On the High FSB thing, you dont have to worry with the motherboard you will be using....... like secret_squirrel said your board will have a PCI/AGP lock so you wont be overclocking the hard disks at all.

jow

Hi,

Originally posted by Flashman
Xxs it is then by the looks of things. Hopefully there will be a suitable gpu waterblock by the time I'm in the us in july, but I think the mounting holes are the same as the previous generation. When there is a cpu block, a gpu block and a chipset block does this not mean that hot water is circulating throught the sytem?

it depends what you want to do (I know a very good hint )

but: as with all closed water systems the temperature in the system settles at a specific grade.
If you want to overclock your cpu I would propose to connect the cpu right after the radiator. The single radiator cools the water around 10 degrees (with typical irish temperatures ).

If run my whole system (CPU, GPU, 2xharddrives) with a single rad with around 34 degrees water temp. My CPU (XP 2800) has around 43 degress (ok, BFV or Sacred: 46 degrees).

Concerning the GPU waterblock for the X800: innovatek "promised" them for july... but you never know. I have no idea if the mounting holes are the same. But you can be sure that they are on the way. As far as I know the X800 is not available at the moment. Even for tests the are showing pre-series cards. So we will see.

regards,
jow

Col_Loki

If you want to overclock your cpu I would propose to connect the cpu right after the radiator.

I take it you mean through the pump first yea (or does it make much of a difference ?) ?? And then to the GFX card.

The NB prob wont be a factor in your over clock as it should go 250+ Mhz FSB .......... (im not sure what the mobiles stock FSB is....... feel free to inform me). If it is then water cooling will help a bit, depends alot on what the mobile stock FSB is.

Like jow said the X800 is barely out (but still available from some suppliers - very few), so the cooler for it is going to take a while and TBH july seems optimistic especially for water cooling.
Even so i really can see any other brand comming out with is sooner. And in fairness why the hell would you want to overclock an X800 anymore at the min as its well able for any game currently on the market ...... unless your crazy into benching !!

[edit]

I love my water cooling system, very quiet and great cooling. Im also very happy with the fact that hitide have the brackets for changing to socket 478 / 754 , which means if you buy an innovatek water cooling system you will probably be able to use it in your newest system............ such a big advantage especially when you think of the overclocks you get

jow

Hi,

Originally posted by COL_LOKI
I take it you mean through the pump first yea (or does it make much of a difference ?) ?? And then to the GFX card.

yes, thats right: the temperature difference between the inlet and outlet of the rad should be around 10 degrees (single) up to 15 - 18 degrees (double).
This means: if you need cool water you can connect the cpu right to the rads outlet. Or outlet-->pump-->cpu (the pump doesn't make much difference).

But any other order is ok, I normally propose rad-pump-cpu, because in most computer cases that is the easiest way to connect and a cool cpu is a happy cpu
Just as a short example: in my computer case (a cube which was very hard to cool with aircooling because of two separated sections for mobo and power supply/drives) I connected the two harddrives into the watercircuit. The first drive before the rad and the second drive after the rad.
The first drive has now around 42-48 degrees (depends on gaming), the second ~30 degrees.
I will change the order in the near future

Even so i really can see any other brand comming out with is sooner. And in fairness why the hell would you want to overclock an X800 anymore at the min as its well able for any game currently on the market ...... unless your crazy into benching !!

I am very very happy with the 9800pro to be honest.
I am not so sure for what someone really need the x800 at the moment, especially because the new games that use the new features will take a while to come out (but this is getting off-topic, maybe we should open a thread: For what do you use your x800? ) .

jow

Flashman

As always the point of upgrading the gfx card is for better quality and higher fps, and a x800 pro for about 340e in the us is reasonable enough. Putting the block on the gpu is not so much for overclocking as for silent cooling, and of course I will be seeing what atis latest can do.

I want to get the cpu as cold as possible, and will probably watercool the chipset which will heat up at higher fsbs. The mobile chip defaults at 12x100 in my board, so it runs at 2.4 at 800mhz, and at the moment I have it at 12x250. Maybe I should get another rad? It will complicate things a bit, and mean putting a hole in the case, but the reduction in temp coul be worth it. And I was thinking I could cut a hole in the bottom of the case as an intake? And do people normally put a fan in front and behind the rad?

Col_Loki

Putting the block on the gpu is not so much for overclocking as for silent cooling, and of course I will be seeing what atis latest can do.

Makes sence , especially from a noise point of view!!

The mobile chip defaults at 12x100 in my board, so it runs at 2.4 at 800mhz, and at the moment I have it at 12x250

Well cooling the NB is prob a good idea aswell due to the low multiplier and possible lack of case airflow. Would be a good idea to have some good Ram to go 1:1 with FSB so you dont loose much performance there.

Have heard a bit about the mobiles, how high do you recon it will go?

[edit] I found a big difference adding a fan to front and rear of Rad.

Flashman

Yeah the ram has always been a shortcoming of my system but pc4200 is damn expensive. But since it's looking like I'll be dropping ~1000e on this stuff, whats another 300?
The mobile chip has a lot of potential, its d1 stepping so it's the best around and temps have been pretty good. Hopefully 3.5ghz when the cooling is set up. Picked up for 70e as well! No ht though.

Col_Loki

Thats a nice find!! To get it to 3.5ghz you would need Ram capable of nearly 300mhz which is few and far between.

Have a look for cheaper Ram (ADATA comes to mind) that are fitted with the newly out 3.5n Hynix chips, they overclock like crazy and arent that bad on price. PS i think ADATA will be using them pretty soon, uses 4n at the min and still overclocks very well. I personally wouldnt bother with Pc4200 / Pc4400 expensive stuff, look at a good few reviews and you might find a cheaper faster alternitave. (have seen ADATA stuff hit over 300mhz FSB with good timings...)

Flashman

Ratios will sort that out, and Id be happy with 5:4 keeping PAT enabled. I've been looking at the cost of a gig of ddr500, I'll see how the finance situation is in a months time, thanks for the tip though.