Wearing Seatbelt..

bennyx_o · 25-05-2004 10:00pm #1

My uncle was cought not wearing a seatbelt in a laneway, and AFAIK he was only pulling out.
Can he still be done for penaltly points?

Thanks.

Turner · 25-05-2004 10:02pm

If its a public place, yes!!

PBC_1966 · 25-05-2004 10:11pm

Seatbelt violations get you penalty points in Ireland??? :eek:

That's outrageous! Bad enough that just about everywhere has passed these unconstitutional laws, but at least here it's just a fixed-penalty ticket: Pay it and forget about it until the next one a few years down the line.

Turner · 25-05-2004 10:32pm

Seatbelt already saved my life in a head on collision at 60+mph, i dont need to be scared by any penalty points to put mine on in the future.

Guy:Incognito · 25-05-2004 10:35pm

both myself and the ex were spared a nasty trip through the windscreen by seatbelts. I cant drive without a seatbelt on , feels very uncomfortable.

@pbc, what part of the constitution says you are immune from wearing a seatbelt? they are a good thing, and im sure if you ended up 30 yards in front of your car in a crippled heap after an accident you'd wish you had been wearing a seatbelt

mike65 · 25-05-2004 10:39pm

Originally posted by Stekelly
[B
@pbc...im sure if you ended up 30 yards in front of your car in a crippled heap after an accident you'd wish you had been wearing a seatbelt [/B]

Nope he'd be dead....or if not screaming and alive then thanking God he's rights had'nt been infringed.

Mike.

ando · 25-05-2004 10:42pm

i dont see the big deal. I didnt have any problems wearing the seatbelt before they started punishing ppl with the points system., I didnt realise it was such a problem

sceptre · 25-05-2004 11:34pm

Originally posted by PBC_1966
these unconstitutional laws

Unless you live in New Hampshire, please do elaborate.

the evil belly · 26-05-2004 12:32am

are you still allowed to not wear a seatbelt while reversing? makes it a hell of a lot easier sometimes to be able to turn around more to see stuff. i do feel strangely uncomfortable not wearing a seatbelt in the front of any car whether driving or not but it doesn't bother me in the back(must be the years as i child i spent unrestrained in the back seat. it was the 80's after all) standard rule in my car and most of my friends cars is put a belt on or walk. i've asked people to get out of my car for not wearing a belt after being asked several times to put it on. don't fancy being killed or injured by someone from the backseat if there's an accident

Seth Brundle · 26-05-2004 12:44am

Originally posted by ando
i dont see the big deal. I didnt have any problems wearing the seatbelt before they started punishing ppl with the points system., I didnt realise it was such a problem

you don't have a problem with it but there are still loads out there who, despite all the reports etc., do!

unkel · 26-05-2004 12:58am

Originally posted by kbannon
you don't have a problem with it but there are still loads out there who, despite all the reports etc., do!

Ireland was until recently the country with the lowest level of seatbelt-wearing in the EU. Two years ago a third of male drivers and two thirds of female drivers wore a seatbelt :eek:

This seems to have changed dramatically though starting even before the penalty points were loaded for this

Still it is my experience that few back seat passengers are wearing a seatbelt. Is everyone here aware that the driver will get penalty points if there's a 17 year old in the back seat not wearing the belt?

Also my experience that even Gardai are starting to wear the belt now

@everybody: FFS Belt up!!

Peace · 26-05-2004 1:12am

If you're not going to wear a seat belt at least get an organ donor card...

unkel · 26-05-2004 1:17am

Originally posted by Peace
If you're not going to wear a seat belt at least get an organ donor card...

LOL as in do at least one useful thing in (or after) your life

seamus · 26-05-2004 10:08am

For me, driving a car without a seatbelt is like driving a motorbike without a helmet. You feel naked and exposed.

Apparently it is quite a big problem. Tis something that definitely needed to be added to the points system.

ChipZilla · 26-05-2004 11:30am

Originally posted by the evil belly
are you still allowed to not wear a seatbelt while reversing? makes it a hell of a lot easier sometimes to be able to turn around more to see stuff. i do feel strangely uncomfortable not wearing a seatbelt in the front of any car whether driving or not but it doesn't bother me in the back(must be the years as i child i spent unrestrained in the back seat. it was the 80's after all) standard rule in my car and most of my friends cars is put a belt on or walk. i've asked people to get out of my car for not wearing a belt after being asked several times to put it on. don't fancy being killed or injured by someone from the backseat if there's an accident

Umm, when you are thought to drive by a proper driving instructor you learn how to reverse using your mirrors - not by sticking your arm behind the passenger seat and looking straight out the back windows.

PBC_1966 · 26-05-2004 11:41am

Oh dear...... Is there nobody here on the anti-belt side?

The reason that quite a few of us object to the compulsory seatbelt law is two-fold.

First, although belts may prevent injury, there are plenty of cases where a seat-belt has caused injury. There are people walking around today who have survived accidents which would have been fatal had they been buckled up. The government is therefore mandating that people do something which may be harmful, which is a violation of the right to the security of one's person.

Second, even if we ignore that point and assume that belts automatically provide protection in all cases, when did we give up our right of self-determination to the nanny-state? Laws are there to protect people against the actions of others, not to protect people against themselves.

The argument that "It's for your own good" doesn't wash. If we accept that argument, then there is almost no limit to where legislation could end.

"It's for your own good" not to go running around outside in freezing cold weather without wrapping up warm. Would you accept laws enforcing this? If you went out in the middle of January when it's 30 degrees outside wearing just a T-shirt and shorts, and a police officer stopped you and issued you with a citation for this "illegal" activity, would you just accept it and pay the fine, because "it's for your own good," or would you be complaining that you have the right to run around in the cold if yoiu want to?

ChipZilla · 26-05-2004 12:01pm

Oh bollocks. I'd love to see some studies done on that. Name one situation where not wearing a seatbelt would increase your chances of surviving. And don't say "your car going on fire"...

koneko · 26-05-2004 12:13pm

If you're not the only person in the car, when you're not wearing a seatbelt you could cause serious injury to the other passengers.
Imagine you give a mate a lift, he goes "I don't wear my seatbelt I hate nanny-states", you end up in an accident and he kills you. It's not just your own safety.

But sure, fighting the nanny-state is more important than safety isn't it.

mike65 · 26-05-2004 12:19pm

Originally posted by PBC_1966

First, although belts may prevent injury, there are plenty of cases where a seat-belt has caused injury. There are people walking around today who have survived accidents which would have been fatal had they been buckled up.

I have an occassional bad right shoulder due to the strain put on it during a rollover crash many years ago
I am happy to put up with it as if I had'nt been buckled up I WOULD BE DEAD! No question in my mind.

Mike.

Sleipnir · 26-05-2004 12:20pm

Originally posted by PBC_1966
Oh dear...... Is there nobody here on the anti-belt side?

The reason that quite a few of us object to the compulsory seatbelt law is two-fold.

First, although belts may prevent injury, there are plenty of cases where a seat-belt has caused injury. There are people walking around today who have survived accidents which would have been fatal had they been buckled up. The government is therefore mandating that people do something which may be harmful, which is a violation of the right to the security of one's person.

Second, even if we ignore that point and assume that belts automatically provide protection in all cases, when did we give up our right of self-determination to the nanny-state? Laws are there to protect people against the actions of others, not to protect people against themselves.

Oh dear God I can't believe someone in this day and age actually thinks like that :rolleyes:

Laws are also there to protect people too stupid to protect themselves
I don't care if you are a taxi driver, not wearing a seatbelt is STUPID and DUMB, DUMB, DUMB!

Sure, there may be a few stories in the National Enquirer
"Seatbelt would have killed me if I'd had it on"
but 99.9% of the time wearing a seatbelt will do far more to protect you from serious head injuries than not wearing it. It's simple statistics.

Just thinking about the mechanics & physics of being propelled at 30mph plus into a steering wheel and through laminated glass should make you slap your head and say "DOH!"

ChipZilla · 26-05-2004 12:26pm

Hmm, here's the US Government's accident statistics site:

http://www-fars.nhtsa.dot.gov/main.cfm

Have a look in the 'Did you know' section.

Ejection from the vehicle is one of the most injurious events that can happen to a person in a crash. In fatal crashes, 75 percent of passenger car occupants who were totally ejected from the vehicle were killed. - (restraint systems ; 2000 )

In 2000, NHTSA conducted the National Occupant Protection Use Survey (NOPUS). The overall observed shoulder belt use rate was 71 percent, compared to 69 percent observed in 1998, 61 percent in 1996, and 58 percent in 1994. - (restraint systems ; 2000 )

If the Americans can get it through their skulls, and make that much of an improvement in seat belt use, there's not much excuse for us, is there?

the evil belly · 26-05-2004 1:03pm

Originally posted by ChipZilla
Umm, when you are thought to drive by a proper driving instructor you learn how to reverse using your mirrors - not by sticking your arm behind the passenger seat and looking straight out the back windows.

where did i say i couldn't reverse using my mirrors? i only asked if it was still legal to not wear a seat belt while reversing

seamus · 26-05-2004 1:10pm

Originally posted by the evil belly
where did i say i couldn't reverse using my mirrors? i only asked if it was still legal to not wear a seat belt while reversing

No it's not. You are required to wear a safety belt while using the vehicle. Your direction is irrelevant.

Turner · 26-05-2004 1:11pm

You do not have to wear your seat belt while reversing.

Sleipnir · 26-05-2004 1:14pm

Originally posted by seamus
No it's not. You are required to wear a safety belt while using the vehicle. Your direction is irrelevant.

You can take it off to reverse.

From Oasis

Exemptions from requirement to wear seatbelts
......2. If you are driving and reversing your vehicle (i.e., moving your vehicle in a backward motion)

seamus · 26-05-2004 1:18pm

Originally posted by Sleipnir
You can take it off to reverse.

From Oasis

Exemptions from requirement to wear seatbelts
......2. If you are driving and reversing your vehicle (i.e., moving your vehicle in a backward motion)

Interesting.

/me remembers to check Oasis before the irish statute book.

K2 · 26-05-2004 1:22pm

There is also a financial cost to not wearing your seat belt, the cost to the health system in treating idiots who have had accidents and neglected to wear belts in hugh. That's our hard earned taxes that could be better spent elsewhere in the health system, I suppose you could compare it to having to treat smokers for lung cancer. Unfortunately it is still a common occurance to see people drive around with out wearing them, have a look around tonite on the way home.

ChipZilla · 26-05-2004 1:23pm

Originally posted by the evil belly
where did i say i couldn't reverse using my mirrors? i only asked if it was still legal to not wear a seat belt while reversing

If you use your mirrors to reverse, why would you need to take your belt off? You'd still be facing forward.

Or am I doing something wrong when I reverse?

PBC_1966 · 26-05-2004 1:23pm

You are required to wear a safety belt while using the vehicle. Your direction is irrelevant.

In the U.K. law, there is a specific exemption which says a belt need not be worn while carrying out a maneuver which involves reversing.

Other exemptions demonstrate the capricious application of the law. For example, taxi drivers are not required to use a belt while driving their cab. Why not? If the idea of the law is to protect everybody as you claim, then why should somebody who spends his whole day driving around be exempted, while somebody driving a mile to get his groceries risks being stopped and fined for doing the exact same thing. There's no logic in that.

If the Americans can get it through their skulls, and make that much of an improvement in seat belt use, there's not much excuse for us, is there?

There are large numbers of Americans who are also totally opposed to the mandatory seat-belt laws. It's becoming more of a problem as many states have, or are considering, changing belt enforcement from secondary to primary offenses.

Seocndary enforcement is what was in place when I was living in Nebraska. Basically, it means that although the law says buckle-up, you can't be cited for that alone. You can get a ticket only if you've also been stopped for some other offense, such as speeding, running a light, etc.

Have a look at the following:

www.seatbeltchoice.com

http://proliberty.com/observer/20001217.htm

the evil belly · 26-05-2004 1:30pm

Originally posted by ChipZilla
If you use your mirrors to reverse, why would you need to take your belt off?

i'm not saying i do. i was just wondering if the law still allowed you to take it off when reversing. not much point in having mirrors on the car if i don't look in em. however situations do arise where you may need to look out the rear window when reversing such as a broken mirror

PBC_1966 · 26-05-2004 1:30pm

Originally posted by K2
There is also a financial cost to not wearing your seat belt, the cost to the health system in treating idiots who have had accidents and neglected to wear belts in hugh. That's our hard earned taxes that could be better spent elsewhere in the health system, I suppose you could compare it to having to treat smokers for lung cancer. Unfortunately it is still a common occurance to see people drive around with out wearing them, have a look around tonite on the way home.

And what about the cost to the health service of treating people who have been injured because of a seat-belt? The same applies to air-bags.

So why it is still a common to see people smoking? According to govt. statistics (which I don't always believe) far more people die from smoking-related illness every year than in auto wrecks. So why not just completely ban cigarettes altogether?

Obesity-related illness also costs the helath service a large amount of money. So would you be happy to see a government stipulated diet, backed up with tickets and fines for those who fail to toe the party line? If you're limited to, say, two Big Macs per week, would you accept a police officer issuing a citation and fine if he sees you buying one for the third time in a week?

Wearing Seatbelt..

Comments