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Scrap the TV licence

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  • 27-05-2004 6:45pm
    #1
    rubadub
    Registered Users Posts: 32,381 ✭✭✭✭


    Why is there not much call for scrapping the TV licence. The yearly licence now costs more than a small TV. I remember when it was £6 in the 80's.

    I am forced to pay the wages of overpaid presenters and have no choice in how much they should be paid or what programmes I am paying for. I would gladly let RTE come and install a blocker on my TV to deny me access to their channels. TV3 and TG4 survive without my money. Thankfully we didn't win the eurovision which costs RTE (me & you) a few million to host.

    If it is such a good idea why don't they have computer licences and cd player licence, RTE have a website which must cost a lot to maintain. Why not have cooker licences and issue people with meals each day, if people choose not to eat them they go to waste just like unwatched programs on RTE. In addition to high cost presenters we could have high cost chefs to burn our money on too.


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    #2
    halkar
    Registered Users Posts: 1,258 ✭✭✭halkar


    I think Sky and NTL should be charged for carrying the services. It is pure robbery when we have to pay for tv licence and pay SKY or NTL too. I don't think many left with arials on the roof, even with that the reception is cr@p in remote areas where as they can get decent coverage with sattelite dishes. It would be even better if RTE was FTA to get on sattelite so people doesn't have to pay SKY as most of channels are free these days.


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    #3
    mike65
    Closed Accounts Posts: 88,978 ✭✭✭✭mike65


    Originally posted by rubadub
    Why is there not much call for scrapping the TV licence. The yearly licence now costs more than a small TV. I remember when it was £6 in the 80's.


    Eh? You must be been watching on a b&w telly then.

    Mike.


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    #4
    Zombrex
    Closed Accounts Posts: 25,848 ✭✭✭✭Zombrex


    Originally posted by rubadub
    Why is there not much call for scrapping the TV licence.

    Because most people like having a public broadcast station that is not motivated by market forces and big corporations worries, and can provide true Irish broadcasting in a tiny market place that couldn't substain it without the licence fee.

    Would you rather RTE was more like Sky One?? .. up next "When Cows Go Wrong!" :rolleyes:


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    #5
    Mighty_Mouse
    Registered Users Posts: 1,882 ✭✭✭Mighty_Mouse


    Yes lets NOT have a public broadcaster and only watch profit motivated programming. "big brother 1000000000122" me thinks. I think RTE offers a very good service at the moment to its viewers. Theres somthing decent on most nights. I would get sick if all I had to watch was sky's offering!


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    #6
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Originally posted by Mighty_Mouse
    Yes lets NOT have a public broadcaster and only watch profit motivated programming. "big brother 1000000000122" me thinks. I think RTE offers a very good service at the moment to its viewers. Theres somthing decent on most nights. I would get sick if all I had to watch was sky's offering!
    I agree.
    TV3 on sunday nights is now just a simulcast of ITV1's programming.
    Sky one is great for star trek, 24:7 simpsons and the brilliant nip and tuck etc but it is generally woefull with constant drivel shown at primetime consisting of the worlds worst this, and ibizza at night type shows.

    RTÉ has it's faults for sure and in my humble opinion , the likes of Kenny and Ryan don't serve a tenth of what they are paid...
    Theres plenty of talent in the country of regional/local radio stations to replace them at a tenth the cost.
    But then RTÉ are always over worried at the risk of losing viewers in a multi channel world if they let them go.
    Viewers and listeners should make it clear to RTÉ that , that would not be the case.
    Or at the very least RTÉ should be surveying the market to see if it is so.


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    #7
    Johnmb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,150 ✭✭✭Johnmb


    Originally posted by Mighty_Mouse
    Yes lets NOT have a public broadcaster and only watch profit motivated programming. "big brother 1000000000122" me thinks. I think RTE offers a very good service at the moment to its viewers. Theres somthing decent on most nights. I would get sick if all I had to watch was sky's offering!
    Or better still, what don't they only charge the people who want such a channel, and feel such a channel is necessary. I never have, and never will, nuy a TV licence, and eventually they will increase the price so much that the person who does buy one for me (against my wishes) will have to stop. If people like you think RTE provide such a good service, then people like you should pay for it. I happen to think that Sky is a better channel, so I pay for my subscription. I don't expect other people who don't watch it to pay on my behalf, so why should I pay for RTE on their behalf?


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    #8
    Mighty_Mouse
    Registered Users Posts: 1,882 ✭✭✭Mighty_Mouse


    Or better still, what don't they only charge the people who want such a channel, and feel such a channel is necessary. I never have, and never will, nuy a TV licence, and eventually they will increase the price so much that the person who does buy one for me (against my wishes) will have to stop. If people like you think RTE provide such a good service, then people like you should pay for it. I happen to think that Sky is a better channel, so I pay for my subscription. I don't expect other people who don't watch it to pay on my behalf, so why should I pay for RTE on their behalf?
    I find it hard to believe you never watch RTE. But even so if you do find it apalling that you should have to pay for public services you dont use, may i suggest your living in the wrong country!!!


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    #9
    Johnmb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,150 ✭✭✭Johnmb


    Originally posted by Mighty_Mouse
    I find it hard to believe you never watch RTE. But even so if you do find it apalling that you should have to pay for public services you dont use, may i suggest your living in the wrong country!!!
    It's my country, if I don't use a service, then I don't pay for it. If you love RTE so much, then you pay for it. The only one of those channels I'd be willing to pay for is TG4, not because I watch it, but because I support its cause (promotion of the language). The other two channels, I don't watch because they don't show anything worth watching for the most part, and the few decent things they do show, I watch on Sky.


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    #10
    Orion
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,807 ✭✭✭✭Orion


    Originally posted by Mighty_Mouse
    But even so if you do find it apalling that you should have to pay for public services you dont use, may i suggest your living in the wrong country!!!

    Maybe I don't understand you - are you suggesting that we should pay for services that we don't use? That's good. Maybe the next time I'm in the supermarket I should pay for some milk that I'm not buying as well.


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    #11
    Rev Hellfire
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,346 ✭✭✭Rev Hellfire


    You dont pay taxes to support what you personally use but to support society on the whole. I dont avail of unemployment benfit, but I certainly wouldnt say that I shouldnt have to support it. Its the same with supporting a public inpendent broadcaster, the community as whole whats one, and since I assume you wish to available of the services of the community as a whole you should support it and pay.

    You are of course well within your rights to want value for money.


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    #12
    Orion
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,807 ✭✭✭✭Orion


    Originally posted by Rev Hellfire
    You dont pay taxes to support what you personally use but to support society on the whole.

    Taxes are paid to the Govt. to provide essential services (such as tribunals :p ). The license fee is a charge that is paid to RTE to provide salaries to overpaid planks such as Pat Kenny.

    I don't object to refuse charges or taxes etc in principle (what's done with them maybe) but I do object to paying a license fee for the right to own a TV.


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    #13
    Mighty_Mouse
    Registered Users Posts: 1,882 ✭✭✭Mighty_Mouse


    Maybe I don't understand you - are you suggesting that we should pay for services that we don't use? That's good. Maybe the next time I'm in the supermarket I should pay for some milk that I'm not buying as well.
    Do you pay tax? Well thats what your currently doing! Are you a pregnant mother? no? then why should you pay for them!!!! We live in a socially motivated democracy where services which are in the interest of ALL of our society are provided by the government (tax) for all of our society.
    It's my country, if I don't use a service, then I don't pay for it.
    Your wrong. Its OUR country so if the majority of US decide that its worth paying for then WE decide to pay for it. So again, maybe your living in the wrong country?

    Its a simple enough concept. Maybe you never asked why we have the dole,free health care, education ........ we are a socially motivated country (in principle). So I suggest you move because its obviously not the country you want. Or maybe you would prefer to pick and choose the things WE collectively decide is right for ALL of society to pay for?
    The only one of those channels I'd be willing to pay for is TG4, not because I watch it, but because I support its cause (promotion of the language).
    You support it by not watching it! mmm ok!
    and the few decent things they do show, I watch on Sky.
    Is there actually anything decent on sky apart from reruns of the simpsons, "lap-dance island", z-list celebrity big brother shows, and people ****ting on each other?

    Do you not think that its in the interest of the WHOLE of Ireland to have shows such as Late Late Show, Prime-time, Questions and Answers, 9 o'clock news, ear to the ground, nationwide etc etc. Do you accept that ALL of Ireland is not 13 years old and may not want to watch Jackass?


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    #14
    Johnmb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,150 ✭✭✭Johnmb


    Originally posted by Rev Hellfire
    You dont pay taxes to support what you personally use but to support society on the whole. I dont avail of unemployment benfit, but I certainly wouldnt say that I shouldnt have to support it.
    But I do avail of those services. While I may not be claiming unemployment benefit now, it feels nice to have that insurance policy that, should I find myself out of work, I will be covered while looking for another job.
    Its the same with supporting a public inpendent broadcaster, the community as whole whats one, and since I assume you wish to available of the services of the community as a whole you should support it and pay.
    Who says the community as a whole wants it? I don't recall ever being asked. Was it on the census? As for me paying, I only pay for things that I get a benefit from. How many thousands of housholds have Sky? How many more would have it if it was cheaper? If everyone in the country who had a TV was forced to subscribe to Sky, the government could negotiate a cheaper deal, which would benefit all those people who have, or want, Sky. So, why shouldn't everyone be force to pay for Sky, in the same way that they are forced to pay for RTE?


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    #15
    Redleslie2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 790 ✭✭✭Redleslie2


    Originally posted by Johnmb
    I never have, and never will, nuy a TV licence,
    Well you may want to reconsider because I've just done my civic duty and informed the authorities about you. ;)


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    #16
    whosurpaddy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,718 ✭✭✭whosurpaddy


    Originally posted by Johnmb
    Or better still, what don't they only charge the people who want such a channel, and feel such a channel is necessary. I never have, and never will, nuy a TV licence, and eventually they will increase the price so much that the person who does buy one for me (against my wishes) will have to stop. If people like you think RTE provide such a good service, then people like you should pay for it. I happen to think that Sky is a better channel, so I pay for my subscription. I don't expect other people who don't watch it to pay on my behalf, so why should I pay for RTE on their behalf?


    thats almost exactly the point i was gonna make when i started reading the thread. i do watch rte programming, but i dont know whether id bother with it if i had a choice of paying for it or not watching it.


    why do rte get the best of both worlds with a compulsory tv licence and revenue from advertising, unlike bbc in britain for instance?


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    #17
    Johnmb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,150 ✭✭✭Johnmb


    Originally posted by Mighty_Mouse
    Your wrong. Its OUR country so if the majority of US decide that its worth paying for then WE decide to pay for it. So again, maybe your living in the wrong country?
    No, it my country. If the majority of other people decide that something is worth paying for, then those other people can pay for it, I won't (unless I decide it's worth paying for.
    Its a simple enough concept. Maybe you never asked why we have the dole,free health care, education ........ we are a socially motivated country (in principle). So I suggest you move because its obviously not the country you want.
    What you mention there provides me with a service, that's why I pay for it. If RTE provided me with a service, I'd pay for it. RTE doesn't, so I won't.
    Or maybe you would prefer to pick and choose the things WE collectively decide is right for ALL of society to pay for?
    I already do.
    You support it by not watching it! mmm ok! Is there actually anything decent on sky apart from reruns of the simpsons, "lap-dance island", z-list celebrity big brother shows, and people ****ting on each other?
    If those programs entertain some people, then there is nothing wrong with them. For me personally, I prefer programs like Cold Case, Angel, Stargate SG-1, etc.
    Do you not think that its in the interest of the WHOLE of Ireland to have shows such as Late Late Show,
    Hell no. What possible benefit could a gossip show have to Ireland? If some people like that crap, then those people can pay for it, not me.
    Prime-time, Questions and Answers, 9 o'clock news, ear to the ground, nationwide etc etc. Do you accept that ALL of Ireland is not 13 years old and may not want to watch Jackass?
    Which is completely irrelevant. If people are not interested in the news, why should they pay for it? I can find out what's happening around Ireland from Sky, TV3, and the newspapers. I am fairly well up on events around Ireland, and the world, and I don't watch any of the programs you just listed.


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    #18
    Johnmb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,150 ✭✭✭Johnmb


    Originally posted by Redleslie2
    Well you may want to reconsider because I've just done my civic duty and informed the authorities about you. ;)
    Doesn't matter. As I said further down in that post, someone else buys one (against my wishes) in my name. When that is no longer the case, I look forward to my day in court.


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    #19
    Gurgle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,064 ✭✭✭Gurgle


    OK, RTE needs more to run than it brings in.
    Can't the department of sports & culture (or whatever) write them a cheque once a year ?
    It would save on the administration & enforcement expenses for collecting the TV ownership tax.


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    #20
    Redleslie2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 790 ✭✭✭Redleslie2


    Originally posted by Johnmb
    Doesn't matter. As I said further down in that post, someone else buys one (against my wishes) in my name. When that is no longer the case, I look forward to my day in court.
    No harm to get you checked out in case you're fibbing. All your arguments are rubbish by the way. If you object to the licence, get rid of your tv.


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    #21
    Rev Hellfire
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,346 ✭✭✭Rev Hellfire


    Originally posted by whosurpaddy
    why do rte get the best of both worlds with a compulsory tv licence and revenue from advertising, unlike bbc in britain for instance?
    Because its a numers game, there are more of them paying of the pot is bigger.

    If you don’t like the current situation and you feel there is a ground swell behind you, get off your áss and start campaigning. But I suspect you'll just sit and moan rather than do something proactive about this deplorable situation you and your television have found yourselves in.


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    #22
    Orion
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,807 ✭✭✭✭Orion


    Originally posted by Mighty_Mouse
    Do you pay tax? Well thats what your currently doing! Are you a pregnant mother? no? then why should you pay for them!!!!
    Its a simple enough concept. Maybe you never asked why we have the dole,free health care, education ........

    So having a TV is on a par with health care, education and ability to support yourself? Do you not think that is a bit of an over-reaction. As for your selective quoting... I also said that I don't object to taxes. They are what pay for these things. The license fee merely pays for something that should be optional.


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    #23
    BigEejit
    Registered Users Posts: 3,739 ✭✭✭BigEejit


    well ... the UK has ~20 times the population ..... but if RTE got rid of some of the absolute ****e programming and the overpriced fuckwit presenters they may be able to do without the ads

    I dont watch TV much anymore, I dont think that my wife or small child watch any Irish channels either, if I was given the option of not being able to watch them and saving myself the money (whats it now €130?) I get rid of the channels in a heartbeat .....

    BTW is a PC with a satellite card or a TV tuner card in it liable for this stealth tax?


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    #24
    Mighty_Mouse
    Registered Users Posts: 1,882 ✭✭✭Mighty_Mouse


    But I do avail of those services. While I may not be claiming unemployment benefit now, it feels nice to have that insurance policy that, should I find myself out of work, I will be covered while looking for another job.
    Right so what your saying is YOU should decide what services are necessary and what aren't? Is there a dictator position open in the next election? You would certainly have my vote!!!!
    Who says the community as a whole wants it? I don't recall ever being asked
    Do you vote?
    Was it on the census?
    I though the census was an information gathering exercise not a political document
    As for me paying, I only pay for things that I get a benefit from. How many thousands of housholds have Sky? How many more would have it if it was cheaper? If everyone in the country who had a TV was forced to subscribe to Sky, the government could negotiate a cheaper deal, which would benefit all those people who have, or want, Sky. So, why shouldn't everyone be force to pay for Sky, in the same way that they are forced to pay for RTE?
    Couple of things. You think the whole country should be forced to subscribe to Sky!!!!! A profit-motivated private company!!!Do you think the WHOLE country wants to see people fry their own puke!!! Do you not understand the point that this is a democracy, a socialist country. You dont have a choice so if you dont like it ................c ya!!!(or run for election on the basis that you want to scrap RTE!!! Im sure you'll do well!!)
    Taxes are paid to the Govt. to provide essential services (such as tribunals ). The license fee is a charge that is paid to RTE to provide salaries to overpaid planks such as Pat Kenny.
    So you wouldnt have a problem if the government increased direct taxation to cover Pat Kennys wages? TV licences are an indirect tax (a double tax if you like) but their a form of tax. Do you have a problem with taxation?
    i do watch rte programming, but i dont know whether id bother with it if i had a choice of paying for it or not watching it.
    You dont have that choice.
    why do rte get the best of both worlds with a compulsory tv licence and revenue from advertising, unlike bbc in britain for instance?
    What does the BBC get? may I add at this point the UK has a population of 60million. We've got near 4!!
    Can't the department of sports & culture (or whatever) write them a cheque once a year ?
    It would save on the administration & enforcement expenses for collecting the TV ownership tax.QUOTE] If your concern is administrative efficiency. Im sure the tv licence inspectors are gathering more than their spending;)
    As I said further down in that post, someone else buys one (against my wishes) in my name
    How can somebody do anything against your wishes in your name!!I mean if you feel this strongly.Surely you would be motivated enough to protest. Maybe even spend some time in prison!!!
    No, it my country. If the majority of other people decide that something is worth paying for, then those other people can pay for it, I won't (unless I decide it's worth paying for.
    No, I'm sorry, your wrong! If the majority decides something then everyone has to follow. Its a democracy. Maybe you should leave!:p


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    #25
    BigEejit
    Registered Users Posts: 3,739 ✭✭✭BigEejit


    Originally posted by Redleslie2
    All your arguments are rubbish by the way. If you object to the licence, get rid of your tv.

    Touché ..... not

    what a crap answer


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    #26
    Johnmb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,150 ✭✭✭Johnmb


    Originally posted by Redleslie2
    No harm to get you checked out in case you're fibbing. All your arguments are rubbish by the way. If you object to the licence, get rid of your tv.
    You need a little more than the information you can get here to have anyone checked out. As for my arguments being rubbish, why? Because you say so? If you won't subsidise my Sky viewing, why should I subsidise your RTE viewing?


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    #27
    cruiserweight
    Registered Users Posts: 5,307 ✭✭✭cruiserweight


    why do rte get the best of both worlds with a compulsory tv licence and revenue from advertising, unlike bbc in britain for instance?

    In return for RTE getting the license fees they have much tighter regulations governing them than any other TV station broadcast in this country. For example they are not allowed show as many ads as TV3, in fact I think that TV3 are allowed something in the region of an extra two minutes per advertisement slot. Thus meaning that RTE need money from some other source. Also in Britain you have a lot more people paying the fee so BBC get a lot more money.

    Also RTE have obligations to devote a large propoetion of their time to irish made programmes, a lot larger than any other channels. In fact TV3 make up their required quota by showing re-runs of the Champions League and news in the early hours of the morning.

    Anyway the TV license is a tax for the ability to receive a broadcast, not for whether you watch it or not. If you have a car and want to drive it on the road you must pay motor tax, and that goes to the up keep of all roads in the country whether you drive on them or not.

    I pay my license fee and it would not be so high if everybody did their far share and paid it as well.


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    #28
    Orion
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,807 ✭✭✭✭Orion


    Originally posted by BigEejit

    BTW is a PC with a satellite card or a TV tuner card in it liable for this stealth tax?

    Yes it is. Any equipment that is capable of receiving a TV signal is liable to the tv license. That even includes the old b&W portable in your attic that hasn't worked in 20 years!


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    #29
    Imposter
    Registered Users Posts: 4,666 ✭✭✭Imposter


    Originally posted by BigEejit
    BTW is a PC with a satellite card or a TV tuner card in it liable for this stealth tax?
    Yes. As is a having a radio (although there may be a seperate radio licence).


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    #30
    Orion
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,807 ✭✭✭✭Orion


    Originally posted by cruiserweight
    If you have a car and want to drive it on the road you must pay motor tax, and that goes to the up keep of all roads in the country whether you drive on them or not.

    Not true. If your car is declared off the road then you don't have to pay road tax for that period. For example of you go away for 6 months and your car is left sitting on your driveway - you can sign a declaration on your renewal (and get it signed by a Garda) so that period is ignored.

    So maybe the same policy should apply to RTE. If I don't watch RTE or TG4 for 6 months then I should have to pay the license fee for that period.


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    #31
    Mighty_Mouse
    Registered Users Posts: 1,882 ✭✭✭Mighty_Mouse


    So having a TV is on a par with health care, education and ability to support yourself? Do you not think that is a bit of an over-reaction
    It is on a par!!! How is it not!! I mean its a tax decided to be acceptable by the majority of Irish people!
    As for your selective quoting... I also said that I don't object to taxes. They are what pay for these things. The license fee merely pays for something that should be optional.
    Oh, so some taxes should be optional!!! I see. mmmmmmmm I've never drawn the dole!!! **** that, I'm not paying!!


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