Should non-national homosexual partners be allowed to become Irish citizens?

MadsL

Following on from the citizenship debate...Should Ireland allow gay couples where one partner is Irish/EU to register the relationship and have full citizenship/residency rights?

seamus

Only if marraige, or any other form of civil joining becomes available. Basically, it should be allowed under the same conditions as they are with heterosexual couples right now.

arcadegame2004

I am gay. But I am against marriages of convenience in the immigration sense. I would apply the rules in the same way that they are applied for heterosexual marriages but I would want to make sure this wasn't just a marriage of convenience designed to get citizenship.

MadsL

Interesting point of view, Arcade. So for you being married or legally declared a life-partner is good enough for citizenship, but you would deny citizenship to anyone physically born here that did not have an Irish parent.


And no, I am not being homophobic - I support gay marriages/unions.

seamus

Originally posted by MadsL
Interesting point of view, Arcade. So for you being married or legally declared a life-partner is good enough for citizenship, but you would deny citizenship to anyone physically born here that did not have an Irish parent.

Well I know I would be (not gay personally). Change "Irish parent" to "parent who is, or is eligible to become, a citizen."

MadsL

is eligible to become, a citizen

What is your point? Anyone is eligible to become a citizen. All they have to do is stay here for 5 years, apply for Naturalisation and wait for the inevitable Civil Service processing backlog to clear (currently 2 years, ffs!)

arcadegame2004

MadsL, I have said I am against cynical exercises of marriage solely to gain citizenship. In the US the FBI are involved in surveillance to try to ensure that is not the real reason for the marriage. I belived that if gay marriage is legalised in future then we will need to have equally stringent legislation for both gay and straight marriages between non-nationals and nationals and will have to law down rules only giving the other partner from outside the state Irish citizenship after a set number of years of them being together. Otherwise we will see marriages of convenience with only citizenship in mind.

MadsL

Arcade, you SO missed my point. Let me quote it again so that you don't ignore it again...

but you would deny citizenship to anyone physically born here that did not have an Irish parent

So, marriage is OK but being BORN here is not enough grounds for citizenship...that is what you are saying, right?

arcadegame2004

I would deny automatic citizenship to someone born here of non-national parents. That is correct.

I would prefer to delink, for both straights and gays, the issues of Irish citizenship and marriage, because experience in the US and elsewhere - including in Ireland - has been that some illegal immigrants marry in an effort to regularise their status.

However, it is extremely unlikely that another adult EU national would do this, since they are automatically legal migrants to our shores.

Therefore, I would give the other partner Irish citizenship if they are adult EU nationals. If they are from outside the EU then I would not automatically give them this.

Originally posted by MadsL
Following on from the citizenship debate...Should Ireland allow gay couples where one partner is Irish/EU to register the relationship and have full citizenship/residency rights?

The same rules should apply as in heterosexual unions between a non E.U citizen and an Irish or E.U citizen-simple.

AngelofFire

they should be subject to the same immigration regulations as hetro sexual non national partners anything else is discriminatory.

The New Eu consititution should recognise same sex civil unions.There is no reason to say that homosexual couples should not be entitled to inherit their partners dwelllings when they die. Im not gay myself but i dont think there is anything abnormal about homosexuality. they should be treated in the same way as hetrosexual couples.

TwoShedsJackson

Coming over here!! Taking our jobs and our wome.. Oh wait, yes, yes they should be allowed to.

Victor

Originally posted by arcadegame2004
However, it is extremely unlikely that another adult EU national would do this, since they are automatically legal migrants to our shores.

If they can support themselves.

Originally posted by arcadegame2004
I would prefer to delink, for both straights and gays, the issues of Irish citizenship and marriage, because experience in the US and elsewhere - including in Ireland - has been that some illegal immigrants marry in an effort to regularise their status.

So being married to someone you gain you no rights when it comes to citizenship? That a foreign spouse should be eternally dependent on their Irish spouse.

Originally posted by arcadegame2004
Therefore, I would give the other partner Irish citizenship if they are adult EU nationals.

Just like that? Get married and you can have citizenship in the morning? Isn't that the complete opposite of what you just said? And what about preserving our Irishness as you have argued elsewhere?

Originally posted by arcadegame2004
If they are from outside the EU then I would not automatically give them this.

Why? Whats the difference? Are you saying immigration officials know that an EU_EU marriage is inherently more honest(?) than an EU-non-EU one?

seamus

Originally posted by MadsL
What is your point? Anyone is eligible to become a citizen. All they have to do is stay here for 5 years, apply for Naturalisation and wait for the inevitable Civil Service processing backlog to clear (currently 2 years, ffs!)

Obviously that's what I mean. :rolleyes: Anyone who already has a naturalisation application in process. Semantics tbh.