How to Cheat in the Leaving Cert

subway_ie

Originally posted by nm
and can the same be said for people choosing to cheat?

But the people who study aren't doing any harm/anything illegal, where as the people who cheat are hurting the 70,000-odd people who are doiong their leaving cert, looking to get points for their courses.
Basically, if you can't get the points to get into the course, you really shouldn't be there in the first place.

Caesar_Bojangle

Its certainly not the hardest thing to do.

Last year, at my school a few of the lads stuffed notes down their socks and read them in the jacks. Putting them in your pocket is too risky, in case they accidentally fall out.

We had three examiners - who honestly didn't appear to give a crap, and our exam hall was massive so it was hard to keep an eye on what everyone was doing. There were a lot of people talking freely during exams tbh. On a few occasions two of the examiners left the hall for upwards of ten minutes and all we had was this half dead troll woman monitoring us.

Once we were given permission by the examiner to go to the toilet, they'd escort us to the hall door and let one of the prefects (5th years from the school who I knew rather well) walk with us to the jacks. Once the examiner went back to the hall the prefects just let us do what we wanted. On a few occasions I got help off the prefects. I even bumped into my history teacher who gave me some help.

Kold

I couldn't care less what anyone does as long as noone gets hurt... against their will...

To be honest I wouldn't think it would screw up the points system as one trip to the jacks can possibly boost you, what? 10 points? In that case, they probably knew their stuff but couldn't remember.

I wouldn't call my morals screwed up. I'd call them more in depth than your black and white views on life.

subway_ie

Originally posted by Kold
To be honest I wouldn't think it would screw up the points system as one trip to the jacks can possibly boost you, what? 10 points?

Ok, so if I was to cheat, and get 10 more points than you, and had the same course down as my number one choice - I get the course, you're 5 points off. That would be ok? Just imagine it's your dream course - the only one you're reotely interested in. That would be ok that I steal the course away from you, just because I cheated?

smelly girl

Ok, im getting dizzy from reading and rereading quotes and more quotes.

First of all i noticed noone actually mentioned the consequences of getting caught,
it is a state exam, that means that you wont get a slap on the wrist from your teachers, you're in BIG trouble. You cannot sit a state exam for a certain amount of years (not sure exactly). that means a drivers licence is out of the question... Althought that statement is a tad irrelevent you get my meaning.

I will admit i voted that i wont if the opportunity arose, however i would not premeditate it. I would probably under pressure from it and i know there are people out there going on and on about theres no pressure in the leaving just how you react to it and i react with fear, panic and sometimes, BLIND TERROR.

Two weeks ago i spent 10 minutes in irish class imagining what it would be like to freeze time. i could get up, walk around, take down straight from my notes, then have time go go around and help my friends. Ahh it was a lovely dream but i knew i was only watching far too much drivle on tv.

Last year i was one of those attentance thingys,who got paid lots for sitting on their bums reading and making tea for examiners and a girl i sort of knew came out to go to the toilet crying from her home ec exam. it was about 20 minutes in and she could not get through it even though she was really good at the subject. SO when we were in the bathroom i gave her a revision book for 30 seconds and she got a B1.
She didnt cheat in my eyes, she knew the stuff, just needed the push.

But i hope i dont cheat, i'm not going to get up on my high horse and preach about how anyone who cheats is a wart on the face of humanity, i dont want to cheat , i want ot be able to look at my results in august, even if they arent what i hoped for and know that this is something i accomplished on my own.
But i am weak like a normal person and temptation may be too much for me, seeing as i know how easy it is to cheat.

I'll wish good luck to all in two weeks time, whether you're studying your little bums off as i type, or preparing your cheat sheets, or like me, some where in the middle.

minority

Originally posted by subway_ie
Ok, so if I was to cheat, and get 10 more points than you, and had the same course down as my number one choice - I get the course, you're 5 points off. That would be ok? Just imagine it's your dream course - the only one you're reotely interested in. That would be ok that I steal the course away from you, just because I cheated?

At the end of they day the cheater wanted it more than you. You shoulda cheated or studied harder

You'ld be pretty stupid to go to the jacks after seeing one 10 marker you didnt know.
Save the ones you dont know up in your head and go with 20 mins to go. You might pick up a lot more markes that way.

By the way, Study AND cheat if you're going to cheat. Better results that way lol

smelly girl

ok holy ****, that was long and i probably contradiced myself a million times.
but i just noticed i made a ton of spelling mistakes so for the love of god dont pick them out and start "well youll do crap because you obviouly have a very bad grasp o f english, yadee yadee ya".

nxbyveromdwjpg

Originally posted by subway_ie
But the people who study aren't doing any harm/anything illegal, where as the people who cheat are hurting the 70,000-odd people who are doiong their leaving cert, looking to get points for their courses.

He'd be doing only the same amount of harm as if he had beat you be memorising it out of some stupid text book for all of 24hours, (just used a easier method and read it from the notes in his pocket for the same result...)

subway_ie

Originally posted by minority
At the end of they day the cheater wanted it more than you.

They *may* have wanted it more, but they didn't work for it. What happens when they get into the course and still don't work? Drop out? Keep cheating? Then what happens when you get into a job? Cheat a bit more? John Rusnak anybody? (Obviously on a bigger scale than most, but you get the general idea). If you're not able to work when you're in school, then do you honestly believe it'll be any different in college?

minority

school is completely different from uni and real life work.
The guy did work for it just in a different way.

What do you think salesmen, marketers, lawyers, taxi drivers, politicians do. They lie and cheat the punter. This is their job.
They are legit jobs that require cheating.

Tell me. Lets say you have the interweb at home and looked up some relevant info the morning of your exam. The poor guy sitting next to you has no web access. He has some books to read AGAIN is all. Hasnt seen the relevat stuff you have on the interweb. You clearly have an advantage over him. Should you forgo your web access, or will you take that advantage over poor billy?

claire h

Originally posted by minority
Tell me. Lets say you have the interweb at home and looked up some relevant info the morning of your exam. The poor guy sitting next to you has no web access. He has some books to read AGAIN is all. Hasnt seen the relevat stuff you have on the interweb. You clearly have an advantage over him. Should you forgo your web access, or will you take that advantage over poor billy?

How can you make the comparison? Look, the whole point is that no matter what you do before the exam, everyone goes in there and sits the exam under the same circumstances, following the same rules. That's why it's a fair exam. It's not under the same circumstances if the rules are broken, if some people are cheating.

It would also be a fair exam if everyone - i.e. the entire 57,000 people sitting the LC in 10 days - were to cheat. Probably immoral in some ways, but it'd be fair.

Originally posted by minority
What do you think salesmen, marketers, lawyers, taxi drivers, politicians do. They lie and cheat the punter. This is their job.

Salesmen and marketers equivocate, they don't lie. There are laws against that. That's the whole point of a justice system, to punish the people who cheat. Politicians cheat? Yes, and they get caught, haven't you noticed?

Kold

The guy who cheated may well make a better whatever it is you want to be than you. It's a stupid system. People putting down medicine because it's got the highest prestige when they haven't got a single humanitarian bone in their body, the person who'd make a fantastic doctor but doesn't get the grade because they couldn't remember the ****ing soil type of the mezzo-****ing-giorno.

Cheat, make a mockery of the bull**** system they've inforced upon us. **** the people who comform and then support the system because they didn't have a life to get in the way of their study.

At least the cheater showed some initiative. Something you fact studiers, for the most, lack.

subway_ie

Originally posted by Kold
The guy who cheated may well make a better whatever it is you want to be than you. It's a stupid system.

Or more than likely he won't work, just like he didn't work in school, and will drop out in first year.

People putting down medicine because it's got the highest prestige when they haven't got a single humanitarian bone in their body, the person who'd make a fantastic doctor but doesn't get the grade because they couldn't remember the ****ing soil type of the mezzo-****ing-giorno.

What would you prefer? That every simpleton who has ever dreamed about sticking people with syringes/scalpels gets a chance at being a doctor?

Cheat, make a mockery of the bull**** system they've inforced upon us. **** the people who comform and then support the system because they didn't have a life to get in the way of their study.

The system works. You work hard, you're rewarded - it's as simple as that. You don't work hard, you don't get rewarded. You cheat, then you're basically a criminal, who doesn't deserve reward. People who chose to study to further themselves would probably just as quickly accuse you of "conforming" to the "macho" opinion that studying is stupid and for lame/sad people.

At least the cheater showed some initiative. Something you fact studiers, for the most, lack.

That's just so fundamentally flawed that I'm not even going to say anything more.

Kold

You're generalising, I'm generalising. I'm just saying that who are you to judge a persons worth by his behaviour at 18 years of age? College entry should, in my opinion be left to aptitude tests and interviews. Even A levels would be better.

People will work harder at things they have an interest in. FACT. I, myself have only the slightest of interests in about 3 of my subjects which I excel at, the rest are fairly middle of the road but I challenge anyone who comes out with 600 points to say they would be more able to study my chosen profession.

7 general subjects is absolutely ridiculous.

I say that if you want it, you know you can do it, get it by any means at which you're willing to take. REALPOLITIK.

claire h

>> I'm just saying that who are you to judge a persons worth by his behaviour at 18 years of age? <<

If someone's old enough to vote, to drink, to drive, to be charged with a crime... I think they're old enough to know right from wrong.

>> 7 general subjects is absolutely ridiculous. <<

Ridiculous it may be, but we all have to do it. You're not the only one who only has a few subjects that you like... most people are like that. It's not a great system but it is fair - we're *all* suffering of the ridiculousness of it.

>> College entry should, in my opinion be left to aptitude tests and interviews. <<

Aptitude tests determine people's potential. Now, potential is all well and good, but it doesn't mean you'll actually be able to *work*. I mean, I'm in favour of another method of college entry, but there's flaws in every system.

I think it's foolish to assume that people who are acting a particular way now, under the pressure of the exams and school, will always act that way. They might get past it. *shrugs* And it's still a lot to assume that they'll all end up unfulfilled.

The people I am refering to have been this way since 1'st year. Six hours study a night for 1'st year summer tests. They're the type of people who run home to mammy and daddy when someone says something about them.

Yeah, right, and the fact that some of them do 7 hours study was just so relevant, and you weren't at all making a sweeping generalisation about people who happen to work harder than you. Why didn't you say that these people are also social retards instead of saying nothing about them other than how long they study for.

I do about 4 to 5 hours of study a day. It was 3 hours in school from 4-7 till about a month ago.
Lets look at it this way some people:

Get up at 8:00am
Go to school 9:00
Get Home 4:30
Start studying 5:00
Finish studying 12:00
Go to bed and repeat.
On weekends do study from 12:00 till 5:00 and again from 7:00 till 12:00

I think that doing that can be dangerous to your health.

stuey

It's a stupid system.

I dont think the leaving cert system is a great system. The only thing that is good about it is the fun you have and thats not even educational. Are there any suggestions on an alternative. Im sure no matter what anybody comes up there will be somebody to argue against it but thats what forums are for

Explosive_Cornflake

Some tripe in this thread, couldn't be arsed reading it all, sorry. :rolleyes:
Just to throw in my 2 cents, you can cheat very easily if you want, it just there is a stigma about not cheating. I remeber my first exam in the LC was on during the World cup, some ireland game. Everyone knew the score before we left the exam. how? txt msg and phone calls in the jacks. Seriously. I had notes in my pencil case. Had the organic table for chemistry.. Was a god send. I don't fell bad about cheating because i knew all the theory, just needed a table any way. Examiners don't really care.

User45701

Originally posted by PrecariousNuts
Did you ever stop and think that while you might see "Person 2" as the ideal rolemodel someone else might not? I know it might sound strange but there are people out there who genuinely love to further themselves by learning. They are a different breed, probably too mature for their age. While you might love to party hard, these want to make a live for themselves, they work hard and reap the benefits.

However I know a good few cases where people "swat" all day long and are exceptionally boring/annoying and even then still fair poorly in exams. I actually don't know what to think about them.

You just have to realise your definition of "living life to the fullest" does not neccesarily mean drinking and partying.

And I'll just add that I get kicks out of solving maths/physics proofs however I still go to the occasional party and get pissed. I like to think that I maintain a good equilibrium (Le Chateliers Principle heh) between "Person 1" and "Person 2".

hmm ok well i must point out that i said person 2 is the partying drinking type because that is what moast ppl like to do.

I like to do it but when im not with friends i watch dvds use the net and play pc games.
Person 2 did what he wanted all the time.
If person 1 liked studying then its ok.

My point is that if someone studyied all the time cause they (this is my faverate line) "i have to study" LOL total bull**** noone has to study. If person 1 was someone who "had to study" then they definatley lost out in life. Person 2 wins all the time unless person 1 is like u said above in which case it is a draw.

Kold

No, seriously, the leaving cert system suits a very small amount of people. I think you'd have to be on some high horse to say that it appeals to those who would do best at their jobs. What you are saying here is that those who can sit down and learn off words on a page should be thrown a bone because they worked ever so hard. You're saying that the knowledge they have regurgitated onto a page is of a higher value than the skill and intelligence that someone may display busting open this bull**** system. I must disagree. The real world is the greatest test. It is of much more value for a person to go out and live for two years than to sit inside learning a very generalised stupid course. Those who make **** of their lives make **** of their lives- natural selection. People who whine about people getting away with taking an alternative route are tools.

I think they're old enough to know right from wrong.

Excuse me? Please define right and wrong to me for I was under the opinion that these were subjective and somewhat abstract terms.

It's not a great system but it is fair

It's certainly not the best system. Fair I would bring into question. Everyone matures at a different rate. I myself have missed many a study period to mess about with my girlfriend, I don't get the grades because hormones are ****ing with my head, is that fair?

Aptitude tests determine people's potential. Now, potential is all well and good

Many don't achieve their potential because they're not even aware of it. I'm sure if you're told you can do something, you'd probably cop on and try to see if you can.

User45701

Originally posted by stuey
I dont think the leaving cert system is a great system. The only thing that is good about it is the fun you have and thats not even educational. Are there any suggestions on an alternative. Im sure no matter what anybody comes up there will be somebody to argue against it but thats what forums are for

What fun?

blobert

I recall it being very easy to cheat in the Leaving Cert. I was sitting directly in front of the envigilator but she really didn't seem to care too much or notice anything. In my Geography exam I brought in a wonderfully drawn map of Italy to help, but sadly it didn't come up in the test and I was left scratching my head and gazing at my now somewhat useless map.

While cheating is of course morally wrong I have always been impressed, at least on some level, by people who are good at it.

claire h

>> Many don't achieve their potential because they're not even aware of it. I'm sure if you're told you can do something, you'd probably cop on and try to see if you can. <<

How very idealistic. I've seen people score high on various aptitude tests. Doesn't necessarily make them hard-working.

>> No, seriously, the leaving cert system suits a very small amount of people. <<

Exactly. We're all equally screwed. It's still fair.

>> Please define right and wrong to me for I was under the opinion that these were subjective and somewhat abstract terms. <<

If you need it explained to you why cheating is wrong... then you're completely amoral, and I'm not sure anything I could say would make a difference.

Kold

Amoral? Who are you to call me amoral? Morality differs from person to person and to be honest if you're going to make that bold statement I may as well point out that your sense of morality lacks any kind of depth. Things are not black and white.
If you believe that what I do offends some kind of God then you can let him deal with me whilst you sort your own life out.

minority

Originally posted by claire h
Look, the whole point is that no matter what you do before the exam, everyone goes in there and sits the exam under the same circumstances, following the same rules. That's why it's a fair exam.

Thats complete bollox you're talking there.
Different teachers. Different parents, different schools, different interests, different subjects, different IQs, different travelling times to school......

The list goes on.
It is not the same for everyone. Its not just the exam that has an influence on how well a person does in it, so how can your statement there be true.

DSMe

Didnt really read much of what was posted on this thread but my opinion is that if someone has the confidence and ability to beat the "system" by cheating and getting 500+ points they will probably be better in college than the student that swats 24/7 and just churns out line after line of memorised crap and gets 500+ points - college forces you to think rather that memorise

Superman

We all know the story of the scorpion and the frog,
The scorpion promised not to sting the frog if it helped him across a river,
The frog agreed and the scorpion sat on the frogs back,
Half way across the river the scorpion stung the frog.
The frogged asked the scorpion "Why did you sting me?",
"because its in my nature" responded the scorpion,
They both sank to their death.


Well, I think that sums up the leaving cert and cheating in general.

PrecariousNuts

Ok, so we hop on the supervisors back... where does the sting come from?

User45701

if you all agree that the leaving cert system is screwed then why do u go along with it?

subway_ie

Originally posted by User45701
if you all agree that the leaving cert system is screwed then why do u go along with it?

We don't all agree that the leaving cert system is totally screwed. It's a relatively fair system - if you can suggest ANY system that's allready in place that works better than the leaving cert, and produces results, then I would be VERY impressed. A-Levels? Bac maybe? SATS? No - the leaving cert beats them all: for fairness, broadness, general education. The leaving cert is a good foundation for a good system - it could be improved, but not hugely. People have to work hard - a lot don't. That's the individuals problem, not the systems.