Fox Hunting. Your Opinion

Rabies

I'm probably opening a can of worms here with this thread but I would like to know people's opinions on fox hunting. The idea came about from a previous thread "Why do they shoot horses".

Do you agree with it?
Should it be banned?
Should an alternative method be used (drag hunting)?
Have you ever taken part in a hunt?
Would you take part in a hunt?

I have gone on a few hunts before, but none in the past few years. They are thoroughly enjoyable in my opinion. I have been involved with horses for about 13-14 years. Started in my early teens. When I was a capable rider I took part in my first hunt. Now my younger brother (10) and sister(14) are going on childerns hunts. I don't know if this is drag hunting or proper hunting, but i really don't mind.

Some general info from
bbc news

The MFAA Website states: "In Britain the goal is to kill the fox. Because there is no rabies in the British Isles, populations of fox are extremely high and fox are considered vermin.

"Farmers with sheep farms want the animal numbers controlled. In America this is not normally the case. A successful hunt ends when the fox is accounted for by entering a hole in the ground, called an earth.

One or two of the hunts I have been on left the fox alone when it went to ground, the chase had ended and I new fox was searched for. Although I have seen a terrier used to bring a fox out of its hole.


A british pro hunting site.

Loads of pro hunting info on that site.

A site against fox hunting

"Ban foxhunting with dogs," said Ben Stewart of the League Against Cruel Sports," and you’ll also save the 50,000 foxes killed by Lurchers and terriers outside official foxhunting." You’ll stop a lot of badger baiters, to, who won’t be able to use their most common excuse when caught: "I was hunting foxes." Ban foxhunting, and British children will learn to value kindness more, Stewart claimed. "When animal cruelty is a sport to get pleasure from, that debases society and promotes even more animal cruelty."

Information from ISPCA

An alternative is drag hunting.

I think the young people under maybe the age of 16 should take part in drag hunting. When they are older let them deceid if the want to take part in a full blown hunt.

Drag hunting is still fun, don't get me wrong. But there is an element of the chase still missing from it. The hounds don't know any different but to the riders the thrill is somewhat reduced.

In my opinion it shouldn't be banned but maybe drag hunting could be introduced more. It provides many jobs during the hunting season and brings in money to the country. Many riding school hire out horses most weekends to tourists that travel from other european countries and america that want to try out hunting in its original form.

Of course like all sports there are dangers. At a hunt you will always see a few riders fall and maybe a horse or two, but thankfully it is rarely serious.

eth0_

I agree that foxes are vermin who cause farmers a lot of grief, and their population needs to be strictly controlled, but I don't agree with fox hunting, it's a very cruel way of 'euthanising' a fox. When pro-hunting people say "Oh it's all very quick and the fox doesn't suffer!" - rubbish! But on the other hand, it'd be quite hard to mass euthanise animals like foxes as they're such quick witted animals, so shooting wouldn't work, and poisoning might mean another animal is killed instead.

I don't know if it should be banned because it'd be a very hard law to enforce, the police have enough to do as it is and they have such a low presence in areas where fox hunting occurs, I feel it might only be a token ban.

Drag hunting is great, I went a few times when I was younger and i'll definitely get back into it when I buy a horse next year. Unfortunately where I live (Drogheda area) there is only a fox hunt, no drag hunts. I can't see why it would be any less fun than a fox hunt, except maybe a drag hunt wouldn't last as long as a fox hunt can.

I do agree that under 16's shouldn't be going on fox hunting. The practice of blooding is absolutely sick IMO, although I believe this practice isn't commonplace anymore.

Kazu

It should be banned eg would you rather die whith a bullet to the head or my chased aroung the countryside still you die from exhaustion and the money they get from his is pure blood money i am from the countryside just in case you bring out the townie thing, i know what i am talking about

Rabies

Originally posted by Kazu
i am from the countryside just in case you bring out the townie thing, i know what i am talking about

I am more or less based in the countryside. Although not exactly remote.
Some farmers agree with hunting. Keeps foxes of their land and away from their livestock. Others don't agree with it.
Hunting parties alwyas try to respect the farmers land if he has given them access to it. They keep to the hedges and try not to dig up the ground too much. If access is not granted on certain patches of land the hunt will move around it.

I know it is not just a "townie" thing to object to hunting.

Ro-76

I am pro-hunting, and have been hunting since I was about 7.

I respect the opinions of anti-bloodsport people, but I do feel that fox-hunting gets a dis-porportionate amount of adverse publicity.

Originally posted by Kazu
...would you rather die whith a bullet to the head or my chased aroung the countryside...

The reality is that people who shoot foxes etc are not expert marksmen and the fox will not be killed by a bullet in the head, but from another wound that will lead to death through a slow painful process of gangrene, or a from starvation with it's leg caught in a trap. I appreciate that being hunted is not the most pleasant way to die, but the fox hunts for a living, so if it lives by the sword...

Compare this to how fish die from suffocation in a net, or how pigs, poultry are slaughtered for meat.

Originally posted by Kazu
...the money they get from his is pure blood money...

I really don't think you are aware of the finnancial considerations of hunting. It is a very expensive sport. Probably just about 3 or 4 people are salaried by any hunt club. This is paid for by an annual subscription by its members and a fee paid for every day's hunting. Farmers within the area may not pay a subscription, in recogniotion of the use oif their land, but many do. Hunts do not turn a profit, and run lots of fund-raising ventures to raise money foir their organisation, and local charities. These include horse trials, sponsored rides etc. There is a general misconception that people who hunt are wealthy and drive expensive cars etc. This is because unless one is a full-time farmer, it is a costly hobby to maintain a horse and be able to take time off to hunt. It's less so for a farmer because the additional cost of keeping a horse with aother farm animals is less.

As I said at the outset, I do respect the opinions of those who are anti-hunting, but I do think people should be informed about that opinion.

Ro

Nala

I believe fox hunting is cruel. Dozens of hounds and riders on horseback against one poor fox is just wrong. Why can't they just use drags?



SAVE THEM

eth0_

Originally posted by neev
I believe fox hunting is cruel. Dozens of hounds and riders on horseback against one poor fox is just wrong. Why can't they just use drags?

SAVE THEM

And what about all the cute little hens and bunny rabbits that foxes kill? You wouldn't like to know how many animals foxes rip apart every night when you're sleeping.

I don't agree with the method of hunting as a way of killing foxes, but the fox population has to be kept under control. End of story.

Nala

Foxes are predators. They kill to survive. Are we going to start hunting dogs and cats now too?

eth0_

Originally posted by neev
Foxes are predators. They kill to survive. Are we going to start hunting dogs and cats now too?

Foxes ruin farmers' stock. My uncle is a farmer and he had to stop keeping poultry because foxes were killing so many of them on an almost DAILY BASIS.

Your argument is ridiculous.
Foxes need to be controlled, just like rabbits needed to be controlled when there is an outbreak of myxamatosis. That's the way the world is. I don't agree with fox hunting, I do agree with keeping the fox population down.

Sarky

Originally posted by Ro-76
I really don't think you are aware of the finnancial considerations of hunting. It is a very expensive sport.

So forget the horses and dogs. They can get their exercise with loving families instead. Strip to your boxers, put on camo paint, and crawl through the brush with a rifle on your back and a knife in your teeth. You can even buy a red bandana, if you really want to splash out.

Don't ask me why, but I've never been able to call a bunch of equestrians trying to keep up with the pack of dogs that do all the work "hunting". But then again, I do have some strange fancies.

kahlua

I too have been riding since i was 7, and hunting for the past six years. Our hunt do not kill foxes just chase it until it goes to ground. I personally don't agree with digging out the foxes and throwing them to the pack of hounds, but i do think that the number of foxes should be strictly controlled and farmers are being villified for taking measures to try and control the fox population.

In Britain the debate has gone completely out of control with atrocities on both sides, the anti-hunting mob have burnt horses to prevent hunts, which is disgusting.

eth0_

Originally posted by kahlua
I too have been riding since i was 7, and hunting for the past six years. Our hunt do not kill foxes just chase it until it goes to ground. I personally don't agree with digging out the foxes and throwing them to the pack of hounds, but i do think that the number of foxes should be strictly controlled and farmers are being villified for taking measures to try and control the fox population.

What? How can you stop foxhounds from killing a fox once it's caught up with it?
Where do you hunt?

Sarky

It's probably easy enough. My own dog constantly chases the cat, and when he catches her he just lets go. It's a game to him.

kahlua

I hunt in Galway, the hounds we use are mostly pets they are trained to chase the fox and then leave it alone when it goes to ground. In a true hunt they bring terriers as these are the dogs that will dig the fox out of its hole and then the dogs descend on the fox.

Rabies

Originally posted by eth0_
What? How can you stop foxhounds from killing a fox once it's caught up with it?
Where do you hunt?

It is the same on one of the hunts i went on a few years ago in Tipperary. If the fox goes to ground it is left alone. No terriers are used to bring it out.

Don't ask me why, but I've never been able to call a bunch of equestrians trying to keep up with the pack of dogs that do all the work "hunting". But then again, I do have some strange fancies.

Sarky, the thrill of the hunt comes from the chase. Keeping up with the dogs as they chase the fox. Its not something you would understand unless you have been on a hunt. We participate in the hunt. Granted, the dogs do most of the work. Our fun comes from the chase. The same rush of adrenaline isn't got from drag hunting. You know there is no "bounty" at the end of the day.

On a side note, I was at the Heineken Green Energy festival at the weekend in Dublin Castle and an animal rights group had an information stand. Went over to take a look at the info they had. One of the women started to talk about the Irish Saboteur (spelling) group that goes to to hunts. When I told her I was pro hunting she promptly stopped talking about it and left me alone

The Real B-man

100% wrong a bunch of spoilt rich knobs sending dogs after a fox for so called sport basterds

kahlua

Very rarely have i seen hunts that actually catch a fox, its not all about hunting its a social thing as well a big group of people chatting all day, its fun and people are satisfied once they get a bit of a chase in. Pro-hunters are not blood thirsty snobs. Its the rural community that really appreciate the hunt.

Seinfeld

Why didn't the lazy farmer just do a better job of protecting the chickens?

Originally posted by eth0_
Foxes ruin farmers' stock. My uncle is a farmer and he had to stop keeping poultry because foxes were killing so many of them on an almost DAILY BASIS.

Your argument is ridiculous.
Foxes need to be controlled, just like rabbits needed to be controlled when there is an outbreak of myxamatosis. That's the way the world is. I don't agree with fox hunting, I do agree with keeping the fox population down.

eth0_

Originally posted by Seinfeld
Why didn't the lazy farmer just do a better job of protecting the chickens?

Don't pass judgement when you obviously haven't a clue about farming.

Seinfeld

Foxes attack at night, keep your hens safe indoors and your problem is solved. But also, someone mentiond Foxes kill to stay alive, but don't they also kill every chicken in the coup when they get in even though they may take only one for food?

eth0_

Originally posted by Rabies
It is the same on one of the hunts i went on a few years ago in Tipperary. If the fox goes to ground it is left alone. No terriers are used to bring it out.

See, I've been (drag) hunting and even I didn't know this. Shows how ill-informed the anti-hunting crowd are.

They way I see it, unless you're a hardcore vegan you don't really have any way of being anti-hunting without sounding like a hypocrite. Go find out how the cow that makes your burger was killed, and then make your proclamation that hunting is cruel.
Fox hunting, fishing, shooting, the slaughter of animals for human consumption, it's all "cruel" depending on what perspective you look at it from.

Seinfeld

Well I'm a vegan so that gives me the right to say fox hunting is cruel.
FOX HUNTING IS CRUEL

eth0_

Originally posted by Seinfeld
Well I'm a vegan so that gives me the right to say fox hunting is cruel.
FOX HUNTING IS CRUEL

Well then that's fair enough then
(btw if you read this thread you'd see i'm anti fox-hunting too).

kahlua

Well I'm a vegan so that gives me the right to say fox hunting is cruel.

Just out of curiousity, do you go to extremes like not wearing leather shoes etc?

Enilorac

Originally posted by Seinfeld
Well I'm a vegan

Oh christ pass the girl a burger!

Just out of curiosity. describe to me a countryside scene/view in your ideal world?

Seinfeld

I'm a Vegan so it is not going to extremes to not wear leather. But it is my choice, it's not like I'm trying to preach or convert others

Originally posted by kahlua
Just out of curiousity, do you go to extremes like not wearing leather shoes etc?

Seinfeld

Mmmm. yes please, but make it a veggie burger from Ricks, they taste sooooo good. Describe a countryside view eh? Perhaps one like my farm in Mayo, but that doesn't really describe it for you though does it. Oh well, no fox hunters anyway. How about if you drug the horses and then starve the foxes for a while, then let the foxes attack the drugged horse and we call that a sport. I'm finished with this topic

P.S. I don't live on this farm, I live and work in Dublin in case anyone confuses me with a bogger

Originally posted by Enilorac
Oh christ pass the girl a burger!

Just out of curiosity. describe to me a countryside scene/view in your ideal world?

eth0_

Originally posted by Seinfeld

P.S. I don't live on this farm, I live and work in Dublin in case anyone confuses me with a bogger

Oh, nice comeback!

Seinfeld

My parents were boggers, Im a city slicker born of bogger parents. My parents had land in Mayo, it was a farm years ago and kind of still is but with less animals now. I have six cows which are looked after by another farmer who I lease most of the land to

Enilorac

Originally posted by Seinfeld
Mmmm. yes please, but make it a veggie burger from Ricks, they taste sooooo good. Describe a countryside view eh? Perhaps one like my farm in Mayo, but that doesn't really describe it for you though does it.

Ah you misunderstood me...get yourself a milkshake & try again....I meant describe to me how you wish the countryside to look like in your ideal 'vegan' world....an awful lot of arable land I'm guessing...???

Kalina

Originally posted by kahlua
I too have been riding since i was 7, and hunting for the past six years. Our hunt do not kill foxes just chase it until it goes to ground. I personally don't agree with digging out the foxes and throwing them to the pack of hounds, but i do think that the number of foxes should be strictly controlled and farmers are being villified for taking measures to try and control the fox population.

In Britain the debate has gone completely out of control with atrocities on both sides, the anti-hunting mob have burnt horses to prevent hunts, which is disgusting.

Excellent argument, kahlua.
The number of foxes should be controlled in order to stop them from raiding farmer's animals but this should be done in a humane way. I can understand why hunting on horseback is so popular, I love horse-riding myself and though I've never been on a hunt (because I don't have access to a horse) I can imagine that it is the thrill of the chase that is the fun factor, as argued by Rabies. However, I don't understand how the rush of gallloping after hounds could be any less by knowing that the "bounty" isn't some unlucky fox.
But, like I said, I've never hunted so I can't really give an opinion.

noels little bu

I come from a small village and i really believe that fox hunting should be banned.

The hunt of about 30 or 40 and sometimes more meet up in our village and totally take over the place. Their horses do their business all over the place and it is left to the people who own the houses to come out and clean after them.

Then they have the nerve to block the road and stand around talking and get annoyed when traffic try to pass them and have to ask them to move. They act as they have the right to be there and why should they move.

They take there kids in to my garden to watch the horses and hounds because they dont want them gettin hurt.

last summer while some members of the hunt were out excerising these hounds, there was 1 dog in the area that was ripped to pieces by them. For people that are meant to have total control over these animals they didnt do a good job that day. These hound should not be excerisced in public areas.

As for the fox hunting, it is so cruel that a person can get pleasure out of watching dogs rip a fox to pieces is sick.

It should be banned. All it is a bunch of stuckup hobnobs who want to show off by prancing around in a group of people, saying "look at me, I kill foxes beacuse i have money and a horse.)
And before anyone has a go at me i am not having a go at them because they have more than me because in reality i am quite comfortably of and dont need to kill animals to show this.

I AM TALKING ABOUT THE LOUTH HUNT!!!!!

seamus

I think I've been through this 100 times, and gotten way too worked up about it, so I won't bother again.

I do find something ridiculously hypocritical in saboteur groups though, particularly those who'll hurt the horses. A bit like anarchists who claim that violence at their rallies is not their fault. (Oh god, can open, worms everywhere).

Bottom line is, they're a pest to farmers, granted, but population control is a feeble excuse used by fox hunters to justify what they do, attempting to use a rational argument to counter emotional or opinion-based ones. For the amount of hunts that take place, the actual amount of 'control' done is negligible. That is, how many hunts take place per month? Let's say one. Then the removal of 12 foxes per year isn't exactly going to make a significant impact on the local fox population.

There are more efficient, humane, even non-lethal control methods.

Sarky

We have a real problem with overpopulation in prisons too, don't we? why not hunt a convict? You'll get the thrill of the chase, and the extra thrill of having a fox that could end up hunting you if you're not careful!

Rabies

Originally posted by The Real B-man
100% wrong a bunch of spoilt rich knobs sending dogs after a fox for so called sport basterds

You couldn't be more wrong.
Please get your facts right before making a comment like that.

eth0_

Originally posted by noels little bu


I AM TALKING ABOUT THE LOUTH HUNT!!!!!

Where abouts in Louth does this happen? Have you spoken to the hunt master or the Guards, if people complain they'll probably have to move their meeting point

kahlua

We have a real problem with overpopulation in prisons too, don't we? why not hunt a convict?

Been there done that, they do it in South Africa, its how they train the police dogs.

kahlua

I AM TALKING ABOUT THE LOUTH HUNT!!!!!

I remember that, it just goes to show some hunts are very irresponsible. Some hunts train the dogs for their visciousness and put the dogs down when they get to a certain age, which i don't agree with either.

luckat

I keep hens, and I don't support fox-hunting. I protect my hens with a sturdy chain-link run.

But on the other hand, fox-hunting might be fair - if the fox is allowed to have its own advocate; perhaps someone with an Uzi who can shoot down the hunters after a rousing chase?

I've heard hunters say that foxes are left alone if they go to ground - but I've also seen footage (rather more convincing) of hunters digging out fox cubs and setting their dogs on the cubs to tear them to pieces.

In disliking hunting, part of my distaste comes from the cruelty to animals. Another part comes from the fear that it teaches the humans who do it to be cold-hearted and cruel, and strengthens these characteristics where they already exist.

Rabies

Originally posted by luckat
But on the other hand, fox-hunting might be fair - if the fox is allowed to have its own advocate; perhaps someone with an Uzi who can shoot down the hunters after a rousing chase?

Leave your childish comments at the door please.

Originally posted by luckat
I've heard hunters say that foxes are left alone if they go to ground - but I've also seen footage (rather more convincing) of hunters digging out fox cubs and setting their dogs on the cubs to tear them to pieces.

It does happen, I will not disagree with you. I don't agree with a digging a fox out if it goes to ground. If it made it to a safe spot it should be left. Some hunts will have bring a fox in a cage and give it a few minutes head start. Then the chase begins. The fox wouldn't have any cubs to take care of.