Ireland V Holland (preview/scores/review)

zAbbo

Games on net2 at 18:55

Team just announced

Didn' quite catch it

bizmark

the lads think we will lose 3-0

i say we can win but it will take luck

Harry2001

I'm going for a 1-1

depends how serious the Dutch are gonna take it just before Euro 2004

bizmark

Originally posted by Harry2001

depends how serious the Dutch are gonna take it just before Euro 2004

IS that the stander reply for all games ireland plays by most people on the fotty board ? "Depends how serious the "insert team" are gonna take it"

Big Nelly

Ireland the better so far anyway

Big Nelly

Wat a goal!!! class

bizmark

See what that little dubliner can do if he just takes the ****ing shot!

1-0 to ireland robbie kean

Villain

Originally posted by bizmark
See what that little dubliner can do if he just takes the ****ing shot!

Exactly, great goal but he should have had 1 earlier, great performance do Barreth is excellent and Maybury is MOM so far, they are well up for this.

RVN is playing sh*t and I mean sh*t and people here said Henry was sh*t outside the premiership :rolleyes:

Pigman II

The Dutch are playing like a bunch of fools. I can't believe they're this badly organised at this late stage.

Ireland look solid and (surprisingly) more attack minded than they are during an average home game. Tho I'm sure Hollands shambolic diamond formation with it's fullbacks from la-la land has more to do with it than us.

Still fair play to Robbie and co. You can only beat what's put out in front of you.

bizmark

Originally posted by irish1
Exactly, great goal but he should have had 1 earlier, great performance do Barreth is excellent and Maybury is MOM so far, they are well up for this.

Barretts doing great i can see a goal comeing for him tbh

eirebhoy

Originally posted by Harry2001
depends how serious the Dutch are gonna take it just before Euro 2004

The Dutch players and fans are taking it as serious as any other match but are just playing very bad football. I bet there's a load of Ireland fans saying if the Dutch were at their best we wouldn't have a chance. We are at our best, how many times do both teams on the pitch play to there best? Very few.

I think we are putting an awful lot of pressure on the Dutch players. If we put as much pressure as we do in any other match (ie. very little) the Dutch would probably be playing at their best. I'm delighted with the first half performance. We have at least 4 first team players out and we are playing away from home, I'm shocked at how good we're playing.

Keane definitely got a talking to about taking too much time on the ball, he still does but you can see he has his head up looking for assistance. He won't change over night. Superb goal though and I just hope we can hold onto it. Best first have performance since Brian took over IMHO.

BTW - Pigman II, I had a feeling you were Eamonn Dunphy until now.;)

thejollyrodger

Magnificant GOAL by ROBBIE as they said on the telly, robbie is one of the best strikers on this planet, he needs to move to a bigger club.

good performance by all the team, lets hope we go on to win

(some great supporters here, reckon we will loose and all )

Big Nelly

Wat is going on with Morrison? I am going to put together a collection for a new Trainer for him on finishing

bizmark

Originally posted by neilbrady79
Wat is going on with Morrison? I am going to put together a collection for a new Trainer for him on finishing

hes not international class but atlest the boy trys

bizmark

hollands playing a good bit better now

Villain

Originally posted by irish1
Maybury is MOM so far.

:rolleyes: That was until Holland gave themselves some width.

Nice save there by Given.

bizmark

we won 1-0

The Muppet

Good steady perfomance from Ireland. Class goal from Robbie who without doubt is our best striker. Morison is not in the same class but he has covered the pitch for the cause and has his place on merit IMO. Thats the first time I have seen Robben live and maybe he had an off night but he didn't impress me. A Good win for Ireland and considering the team fielded was far from full strength the future looks promising. Roll on WC qualifiers

Big Nelly

Originally posted by bizmark
hes not international class but atlest the boy trys

Yeah he trys and his link up play is very good but he needs a goal! didnt score many in PL last season and u can see it in his play

Pigman II

Originally posted by eirebhoy
BTW - Pigman II, I had a feeling you were Eamonn Dunphy until now.;)

Not at all. For one thing Dunphy loves Kerr almost as much as Clinton Morrison loves himself.

Match verdict : Latvia must be licking their lips.

thejollyrodger

I dont care what anyone says, Holland were at home going to Euro 2004 trying to do the build up thing and Ireland had a sratch side out there... great performance!!

Kerr is doing a great job, Robbie needs a bigger club, Clint just needs to keep at it, he gets into right places and was unlucky not to score.

brilliant result

Guy:Incognito

Friendlies arent worth a **** anymore, since everyone started using 9 and 10 subs during a match , they have been crap. The fact that Holland used 9 means that each player was just out for 40 minutes or so of a runaround and arent to bothered, I think this is getting very evident with England, they just dont take friendlies any way serious anymore. These games shouldnt be counted for the world rankings as they are not a true reflection of how good teams are.

At this rate everybody seems to get a free International cap for their birthday.

thejollyrodger

Friendlies arent worth a **** anymore

football is football, so what it if its meaningless, talk about a cynical outlook, you think we had our best 11 out there

bizmark

Originally posted by Stekelly
Friendlies arent worth a **** anymore, since everyone started using 9 and 10 subs during a match , they have been crap. The fact that Holland used 9 means that each player was just out for 40 minutes or so of a runaround and arent to bothered, I think this is getting very evident with England, they just dont take friendlies any way serious anymore. These games shouldnt be counted for the world rankings as they are not a true reflection of how good teams are.

At this rate everybody seems to get a free International cap for their birthday.

Cant you say ONE good thing about the ireland team or is it you just cant find that much to fault tonight so attack the friendlies instead

Guy:Incognito

no but the fact is they still charge €30 odd or whatever it is nowadays for people to go see a piss take of a game, I went to every home game since i was at the Euro 88 game against Holland in Germany but just stopped going in recent years. i dont feel you get value for money at these games, a competitive match is the only chance you get to see teams that sre interested in a match anymore. its just a kickabout to see how many players you can play in one game nowadays.

cournioni

Well done to the Irish team, they can only beat what is put in front of them. And did so with a severly understrength team. It could have been 3 or 4 nil to be honest.

The Holland team as I said before, are a joke. They're all living on their reputations and have severe opinions about themselves. They can't perform as a team until the heat is really on.

Guy:Incognito

Originally posted by bizmark
Cant you say ONE good thing about the ireland team or is it you just cant find that much to fault tonight so attack the friendlies instead

I wasnt just talking about Ireland, if you read the post i gave out abouy Englands attitude in friendlies.

gandalf

Good result for Ireland. Great Goal by Robbie and the team played well. I do agree though people need to take friendly results with a pinch of salt the only games we should be getting worked up about are the WC Qualifiers.

Clinton really needs to score a goal, the guy has no confidence at all and it shows. Maybury should never be played at left back again, he has not impressed me at all. Barrett & Reid were excellent and the defense with Cunningham was solid. I would still drop Andy O'Brien though as I think he is a weak link.

I don't fancy the Dutch team to do much in Euro 2004.

thejollyrodger

yeah technically Holland look great, keep the ball, nice passes, but they kept trying to go through the middle I was complaining about cunningham before but he did some great defending tonight and organised things professionally at the back.

I was also slaging Robbie Keane off on numerous occasions but I now think he is already a great player and can go one to be a world class striker, he needs a bigger club and just some coaching.

eirebhoy

Originally posted by gandalf
I would still drop Andy O'Brien though as I think he is a weak link.

And replace him with who? There are, IMO, 3 players in with a chance of partnering Cunningham, they are O'Brien, Breen and Doc. These are the stats since Kerr took over:

Cunningham - Obrien:
Clean - 1 1 1
Conceded - 0

Cunningham - Doc:
Clean - 1
Conceded - 1 3

Cunningham - Breen:
Clean - 1 1
Conceded - 1 1 1 1

So, Cunningham and Breen have played together six times and only kept 2 clean sheets but never conceded more than 1 goal and most of the matches were competitive. Cunningham and Doc are OK but they conceded 3 in the last match. Cunningham-O'Brien have played together 3 times since Kerr took over and haven't conceded a goal. Those matches were against Brazil, Romania and Holland BTW.

Harry2001

Originally posted by gandalf
I don't fancy the Dutch team to do much in Euro 2004.

We'll see a different Dutch side next week and I expect them to make it out of the group of death, and if they can win it they will probably have a relatively easy quarter final against either Sweden, Denmark or Bulgaria

gandalf

Well I am basing my opinion of O'Brien from watching him. I do not feel he is international quality. The three matches you also mention are friendlies.

I was especially dismayed at his performance against Romania. He was just dire, luckly the Romanians had left their scoring boots at home.

KdjaCL

They played well thought maybury did well considering he was up against really good players for a change.
But reid covered him wel so made him look a lot better.
Barret was a revelation hope he gets a move to premiership out of these games.

We need more players in PL and CL , O Brien played well but he has the excellent Cunningham to direct him , he played very well tonight against 4 alleged world class strikers.

Cant see Holland getting out of group would bet on germany and Latvia (1st time pride an all that)


kdjac

Big Ears

Richard Dunne is the only one that might do better than OBrien at centre back (in terms of quality I dont see much between them ) .

The reason for so many changes in friendlies is because teams more quality players than they did in the past , and u need to play em all to choose between em .(although I prefer Ireland way of having some definte starters in with fringe players rather than Englands , different 11 each half ) .

In the first half I actually think the Dutch were trying to play 'Total Football ' ( Johan Cruyff's philosophy on how to win games ) . But they were just **** at it , because Advocat realy didnt know what he was doing .

In the second half they tried to get some width but were still poor especially in defense , if it wasnt for Van Der Sar who knows what it could have been .

Verdict : early exit for Holland in Euro 2004 .
Ireland were brillant with good displays from Barret , Reid , Cunningham , Given amd every1 realy , even maybury was decent . Very promissing display .

Pigman II

I'm a fan of Breen but I think O'Brien should be given a chance irregardless. His marking in open play is for **** (was particularily watching him off the ball v Kluivert today - and you could have driven a bus between them at times) but he has good pace and as such can cover Cunningham better than anyone else we have.

Also Maybury has grown on me as a player. I think if he was some ManU golden boy then the public would all be willing him into the team but from watching his Ireland displays I can't say he's any worse than O'Shea.

Big Ears

Matt Holland was playing today wasnt he ?

It think I heard George Hamilton metion his name once .
I missed kick off and I wondered did we have a man sent off because I could only see 3 midfield players get on the ball for 80 minutes . He truly is the invisible man .

Pigman II

Originally posted by Big Ears
He truly is the invisible man .

That's just Hollands style and IMHO it works well for us.. In defence when ever there's a combative/scrapper type player (eg Quinn today) playing then Holland will always sit back and do the tidying up and link-up play (the stuff George Hamilton is too oblivious to notice). In attack everything Ireland did today was down the wings (courtesy of Van-diamond) so there really was no avenue/need for Matt to extend himself.

Big Ears

Im well aware normally of the closing down and tackling Holland does .

Pigman II

Originally posted by Big Ears
Im well aware normally of the closing down and tackling Holland does .

That's my point and observation. I didn't say Holland was doing much tackling today. Quinn was filling that role.

therecklessone

Firstly, I thought the Dutch were a shambles. Totally out of sorts, and not in a "its only a friendly so why bother our ars*s?" sort of way. Truly awful.

That doesn't take away from Ireland's performance. Adventurous in the 1st half, how we went in only 1-0 up is beyond me. Keane definitely needs some coaching, but I have to say that will have to be at Spurs (Santini should be able to do a job), cos I can't really see any of Man U, Arsenal or Chelsea coming in for him. Sorry Eamo/Pigman...;)

I thought Morrison did some good work, especially tracking back in the 2nd half. Himself and Keane need to develop a good partnership, but that will only happen if Clinton starts performing in the Prem and gets himself a few games.

Reid and Barrett had great games as well, and I thought Quinn started well (didn't catch all the 2nd half, we had visitors)

The team defended well as a unit, a sure sign that Kerr knows the basics of the game and knows how to organise the players on pitch. All in all it was encouraging, but at the end of the day it was a friendly. They need to do that on a regular basis in competitive matches.

Oh, and why was Seedorf substituted in the 60th minute? Had the sound turned down, but he didn't look too happy. I'd heard there was some trouble in the camp, could the Dutch team be unravelling already? Almost as certain an event as a Spanish collapse I reckon...

jrd

Originally posted by thejollyrodger
I was also slaging Robbie Keane off on numerous occasions but I now think he is already a great player and can go one to be a world class striker, he needs a bigger club and just some coaching.

3 times you in as many hours you have opined that Robbie needs a bigger club. Crap. Given his transfers - Wolves, Coventry, Inter Milan, Leeds, Spurs - and that he is not 24 yet , the most important thing for him is to stay at a single club and get some stability.

The bottom line is that he will score goals because he gets into good positions but has weaknesses. He is not:
- a 20 goals a season striker
- good as "1 on 1"s
and his goal to chance ratio is too high.

When he was available from Leeds, none of your "big clubs" were interested for the above reasons. As a Spurs supporter, I was delighted to see come as he was guaranteed first team football which he did not get that often at Leeds - behind Fowler and Viduka. Robbie needs to play first and foremost.

For info, he may end up moving this summer but not by choice ... Santini may bring in 2 new strikers Govou and Wiltord.

Back on topic, an excellent performance tonight. The only longterm changes would be Roy back in the middle and possibly Duffer up front. Clint just does not have the killer touch at this level. Tactically, and technically superb. Well done Kerr.

Dewey

I thought it was a brilliant proformance by Ireland. Holland were all over the place and Ireland, who were missing alot of players captailise on the poor dutch.

some of the young players werent fased by the so called "big stars" of the dutch.
Quinn was very good in midfeild, and Reid was very good helping out the defence.
Cunningham was excellent and we need him for the start of the World Cup Quilifers.
I think O'Brian is the best partner for Kenny in defence. I do like breen, but O'Brian is playing first team football for Newcastle in the Premiership and in Europe.
I didnt think much of him but he has done well in the last few friendlys. I wouldnt mind if Dunne was in defence. He has come on this season and i think he will get better as he gets older.

Robbie Keanes goal was out of this world. Brilliant. I rate Keane highly, he is a class player and without doubt one of the greatest strikers to wear the Green Jersey.
Sometimes Keane can take to much out of the ball, but he is only 23 and most players dont reach there pike until there 28. Keane needs first team football to develop into a better striker and i hope he will still get first team football at spurs nest season. he wouldnt get a game at United,Arsenal,Chelsea.
Morrison isnt good enough i'm afraid. I like him, he is a hard worker but he isnt scoring and i would like to see Lee of Barrett up front with Keane.

KdjaCL

We need Barret and Reid in the PL, great to see a local ald do well Quinn from my area. Pub where his family live was mental Qs to get into n stuff.

kdjac

ButcherOfNog

Originally posted by Dewey
I think O'Brian is the best partner for Kenny in defence. I do like breen, but O'Brian is playing first team football for Newcastle in the Premiership and in Europe..

...and so does Titus Bramble .. your point is? O'Brien's game varies from poor to awfull, i'd be happier with Breen or the Honey Monster partnering Cunningham.

GuanYin

Great performance, very professional.

Cunningham was MoM in my eyes, a clear rap on the knuckles to posters who said he was past it last week.

A Key player for Ireland

therecklessone

Originally posted by jolly


For info, he may end up moving this summer but not by choice ... Santini may bring in 2 new strikers Govou and Wiltord.

OT alert...

I've heard it will be Kanoute on the way out to make way for Wiltord jolly. Apparently, Freddie has a problem with Santini not picking him for the French team, prompting him to declare for Mali for the African Nations Cup.

Can't see us letting Keane leave to be honest. Hope not anyway.

eirebhoy

If Matt Holland's performance today was down to his style of play he really needs to change it, fast. Lots of teams have players that sit in front of the back 4 but they still actually get a few touches (Makelele would be the prime example). Every Dutch midfielder bar probably Schneider were mentioned on the ball more than Holland and most of them didn't play the full match. He's twice the player for Charlton than he is for Ireland. When Keane comes back Holland can't play but I doubt he'll be dropped.

It was a superb performance for Ireland but we still were not 100% at our best (mind you we never will be away from home). With the exception of Cunningham, Given and probably Barrett, every player could have actually played better. My ratings:

Given: 8 - Two very good saves from corners (if I remember correctly) which many other keepers wouldn't have got to. He also done the basics really well and never looked under pressure.

Maybury: 6.5 - Played well in the first half but van der Meyde really brought out his weaknesses in the second half (Pace, tackling, positioning). In fairness though, he isn't a left back, not even a left footer and he has started all 3 previous matches. Probably his best game for Ireland though.

Finnan: 7 - I can't really remember much he had to do TBH but I also can't remember anyone get a cross in from the left and his job is to stop that happening. Already I'd like to see the match again to see how he did.

Cunningham: 9 - Excellent performance and he won nearly everthing in the air for some as small as himself. He saved us a couple of goals too and is really setting hih standards for himself.

O'Brien: 7 - As a few people have said he wasn't great with his positioning but he didn't do much (if anything) wrong. He's only 24 so has a lot to learn. I would also be perfectly happy to have Dunne in defence and most of you will be suprised to hear me say he's probably the fastest centre half we have, don't judge a book by its cover. He also came 2nd, behind Wright-Phillips, for Man City's player of the year award.

Barrett: 8 - I thought he was superb and always looked comfortable on the ball. Safe backup for the first team but until he can, at least, play regularly for Coventry he won't be first choice on the right. He also refused a contract offer from Wenger a couple of years ago which says a lot.

Reid: 7 - His performances have been dropping since his debut IMO but still had a good game and Reiziger would be the first to admit that. Tracked back really well to help Maybury out on a few occasions. The way he walked past 4 Dutch players assured him of the 7 rating though.;)

Holland: 6 - Anonymous for most of the match and I honestly forgot he was playing until he headed the ball on 76 minutes (I kept note of the time as soon as I saw him). I'm being generous given him a 6 TBH.

Quinn: 7 - Very fast player and an excellent tackler. His performances in the last two games haven't done his chances of a place in the squad any harm. God only knows why Wedensday let him go.

Morrison: 6.5 - He's a good feeder for Keane but I won't be expecting him to score any time soon. He really should have scored tonight though.

Keane: 8 - Kept his head up and aware of the players around him for once. His goal was fantastic and he never stopped running. I just hope he keeps his place in the Spurs team.

Great to see Mickey Doyle get his first cap too.

It's a pity we're not playing France next week TBH. With Carr, Roy, O'Shea, Duff, Kilbane and Miller back we should really be able to beat the Swizz this time round.

Big Ears

Originally posted by ButcherOfNog
...and so does Titus Bramble .. your point is? O'Brien's game varies from poor to awfull, i'd be happier with Breen or the Honey Monster partnering Cunningham.

actually he dosent ,well Obiren and Woodgate is Newcastle's first choice , Bramble only plays a lot because Woodgate's injured a lot .

DEmeant0r

Originally posted by KdjaC
We need Barret and Reid in the PL, great to see a local ald do well Quinn from my area. Pub where his family live was mental Qs to get into n stuff.

kdjac

What? Type that again in plain English, it's probably me but I can't understand a sentence you typed there except for the Barret and Reid bit.

eirebhoy

Originally posted by Demeant0r
What? Type that again in plain English, it's probably me but I can't understand a sentence you typed there except for the Barret and Reid bit.

I assume he had a few drinks.:D Anyway, to put it in plain English, Barrett and Reid need to be playing in the premiership. Its great to see a local lad like Quinn do well. The pub where his family live had huge queue's to get in.

redspider

What a great team performance from Ireland tonight and a great scalp by beating the Dutch in Amsterdam 0-1.

From some of the earlier postings I’m not sure if other people were watching the same game as I was! For one thing, the Dutch were taking this match very serious for a number of reasons. Yes, they used a high number of subs but two of those were for Seedorf (he came on and went off shortly after injured) and due to the fact that the Dutch played a different tactical system in the second half. The Netherlands team were also taking things serious due to the bad run of late (losing to Belgium and scoring only 3 against the Faroe Islands). Additionally, Ireland are seen somewhat as NL’s bogey team as we have beaten them a couple of times in recent years, plus knocking them out of the WC 2002 qualifiers! This was supposed to be their revenge night - they were thinking of another Scotland. They were under their own pressure of expectancy, we weren't.

The Irish team responded very well to this and applied themselves to this game. They were not at all overawed by the situation. There was a great feeling to this game as it felt like a championship game, with a full stadium full of atmosphere, not like the farcical unity cup. And its always good to play the Dutch, as they are a great footballing nation. To those that have said this game was pointless, that viewpoint is absolute rubbish.

I for one have been advocating the principle of teamwork being better than individuals, and I think it shows what can be done by the Irish team with teamwork and without Roy. (And where was he by the way?).

The Dutch played an unusual formation in the first half, with the 4 midfielders playing tight in the middle of the park leaving the full-backs to play as wing backs. The Dutch are missing Van Bommel, and up front there is much debate over who should play as Kluivert and v.Nistelrooy do not see eye to eye nor play particularly well tactically. This has been simmering for some time and there is friction between Ruud and Advocaat.

The Dutch had most of the possession, but couldn’t break through the Irish backs and midfield. The NL full-backs didn’t whip in any dangerous crosses very much either. The Dutch nearly got through on a couple of occasions but the Irish white shirts were hunting the ball down very well and in packs. Ireland were breaking things up, and that includes, Mattie Holland, Maybury, Cunningham, O’Brien, Finnan, Reid, Barrett and Quinn. The Dutch tactics of trying to go through the middle ala Argentina in the 1978 and 1986 world cups was not paying off.

Ireland were reduced to looking for fast breaks and long balls (ala the Charlton era) and this created several chances. The Dutch defenders were at times left bereft and on one occasion it was 3 against 2 but Robbie failed to capitalise (by passing) and his shot on the edge of the box was foiled. Still at this stage we had created most of the chances. We even hit the top of their bar. We kept at this, breaking down the Dutch possession, and breaking when possible for most of the half. Then, on a break Robbie kept the ball selfishly yet again but got away a good shot from outside the box and scored! This was just before half-time, very opportune. The Irish had passed well when they had the ball. This was looking to be a great performance.

The Dutch changed things around tactically at half-time, and they eventually ended up with a 3-4-3 formation. The Dutch needed to win this match to boost morale, an area that is always problematic for them as they always have difficulties between their individuals and lack a team ethic. The Dutch got most of the chances in the second half, but with more crosses coming in there was less predictability. Only once did Shay make a point blank save to keep us in the lead. Ireland also got a few chances early on before the Dutch settled.

This is a great result for Ireland, especially considering the number of players that we were missing. It was good to see how well the young players gelled together and played for each other. I was surprised.

Once again, this is an example of teamwork beating individuals. On paper, the Dutch would be better than the Irish team in nearly every position (the english premiership managers and other european club managers think so!) but when good tactics are used, when players play for each other as a team, the sum of the parts is greater, much greater.

Brian Kerr is happy …… Dick Advocaat is not.