Ronald Regan RIP

therecklessone

Originally posted by thejollyrodger
How can you say such a thing about a great leader when America needed one most !!

The same way you can say that about him!

Bigger budget deficit than all previous presidents combined.
Wasted billions on SDI (Star Wars to all you kiddies).
Supported terrorism and state repression in Central and South America.
Waged war against Grenada...:rolleyes: .
His administration funded OBL and his buddies in Afghanistan.
Brought Saddam in from the cold.

Just a few "achievements" that spring to mind. But hey, at least he recognised "the market economy and true capitalism (as opposed to the state planned commie version)"...:rolleyes:

Annasopra

An interesting obituary

http://www.rotten.com/library/bio/presidents/ronald-reagan/


and another interesting discussion

http://www.gaire.com/e/f/view.asp?parent=209976&nav=1

Asgar

A small question...

Why would they play "God save the Queen" when transporting the coffin from the plane to the hurse??

If I were British I would find it quite insulting that they use the national anthem as funeral march music.

Hairy Homer

I think they have a song called 'God Bless America' which they sing to the same tune as GSTQ. Incidentally, the same tune is used as the national anthem of Liechenstein.

I've got to take this anorak off. Too darned hot.

BEAT

Our twat of a president George Bush has made tomorrow, friday the 11th a national holiday to honor Reagan.
He is giving all gov't employees the day off costing the nation about $67 billion dollars, for a dead guy!

I wonder if he realises that we already have a holiday to honor dead presidents...its called 'presidents day'

What an Idiot :rolleyes:

The Corinthian

Originally posted by Hairy Homer
Incidentally, the same tune is used as the national anthem of Liechenstein.

And for Austria-Hungary, AFAIR.

Victor

Originally posted by BEAT
Our twat of a president George Bush has made tomorrow, friday the 11th a national holiday to honor Reagan.

It's to save them from 6/11.

Hairy Homer

This from today's Irish Times (specifically the column by George Kimball, who is an American.

Shortly after his inauguration as the 40th President of the United States, Ronald Reagan paid the traditional courtesy call to the office of the Speaker of the House. As Tip O'Neill showed the newly elected leader of the free world about the premises, Reagan expressed his admiration for a handsome antique desk.

O'Neill replied that the desk had once belonged to Grover Cleveland. 'Oh,' Reagan brightened, 'I once played him in the movies.'

The stunned O'Neill took a moment to digest this, and then explained to Reagan that in the film to which he was referring (1952's The Baseball Player) he had actually played a baseball player called Grover Cleveland Alexander, who was named after the 19th-century president and former owner of the desk in question.

'I knew then,' Tip revealed later, ' that the nation was in trouble.'

thejollyrodger

How can you support a man who sponsored terrorism in Nicaragua

Its possible even great leaders to make mistakes. His achievements were almost endless, most americans have forgave him for this terrible episode, so have I.

He is giving all gov't employees the day off costing the nation about $67 billion dollars, for a dead guy!

Is that how much it costs A DAY ??? how many people are there?

shotamoose

Originally posted by thejollyrodger
Its possible even great leaders to make mistakes. His achievements were almost endless, most americans have forgave him for this terrible episode, so have I.

That's big of you. Do you think the Nicaraguans find it as easy to forgive? I can tell you for a fact that they don't.

As a matter of interest, how many terrorist attacks and / or murders of innocent people would it take before Reagan stops being a 'great leader'? Do you know how many people the Contras killed?

Hairy Homer

Originally posted by The Corinthian
And for Austria-Hungary, AFAIR.

Well if you can remember Austria Hungary you probably knew RR when he was in short pants. :-)

therecklessone

Originally posted by thejollyrodger
Its possible even great leaders to make mistakes. His achievements were almost endless, most americans have forgave him for this terrible episode, so have I.

Thats nice of you, but isn't that a bit like the Saudi people forgiving the 9/11 hijackers, easy to do when you're not on the receiving end?

thejollyrodger

Im no major fan of the republicans, I prefer the democrats however there are some execptions.

It should be remembered that Regan helped win the cold war and help bring down the fall of communism. He helped ordinary afgans fight the soviets out of their country and his leadership to America was at a time when most americans belived that the presidents job was too big for one person. He helped americans belive that tomorrow would bring a better day, that things would get better, that a son of a drunk could rise to the top and excel at every challange set upon him.



The Nicaraguan affair was not directly linked (legally proven) to RR.

Victor

Originally posted by thejollyrodger
The Nicaraguan affair was not directly linked (legally proven) to RR.

So he had a renegade NSC selling weapons to the enemy, under his watch then?

therecklessone

Originally posted by thejollyrodger
[BHe helped ordinary afgans fight the soviets out of their country [/B]

And financed the training of many non-Afghans who eventually became AQ and Taliban. Well done Gipper.

Spacedog

Can we rename the topic from

Ronald Regan RIP
to
Ronald Regan BIH (Burn In Hell)

what a tyrant.

bonkey

Originally posted by thejollyrodger
It should be remembered that Regan helped ... bring down the fall of communism.

People keep saying this about Reagan, and I keep looking at China and wondering what the hell they qualify as a fall when the most populous nation on the planet still is ruled by that system.

And thats before we look at the other communist nations.

It was the fall of the Soviet Union, or - if you prefer - communism in that region. And it was already doomed long before Reagan got there, by the actions of his predecessors. At best, he can be credited with shortening the demise, which in and of itself may be laudable.

He helped americans belive that tomorrow would bring a better day, that things would get better, that a son of a drunk could rise to the top and excel at every challange set upon him.

Yes indeed. Whatever can be faulted with the man, he is undoubtedly a source of inspiration.

jc

Redleslie2

Originally posted by shotamoose
That's big of you. Do you think the Nicaraguans find it as easy to forgive? I can tell you for a fact that they don't.

As a matter of interest, how many terrorist attacks and / or murders of innocent people would it take before Reagan stops being a 'great leader'? Do you know how many people the Contras killed?

*shakes head, sighs.* There you go again.

TomF

"I distinguish between two kinds of politicians. There are those who view politics as a tactical game, a game in which they do not reveal any individuality, in which they lose their own face. There are, however, leaders for whom politics is a means of defending and furthering values. For them, it is a moral pursuit. They do so because the values they cherish are endangered. They're convinced that there are values worth living for, and even values worth dying for. Otherwise they would consider their life and work pointless. Only such politicians are great politicians and Ronald Reagan was one of them."
...

"In the Europe of the 1980s, Ronald Reagan presented a vision. For us in Central and Eastern Europe, that meant freedom from the Soviets. Mr. Reagan was no ostrich who hoped that problems might just go away. He thought that problems are there to be faced. This is exactly what he did."

In Solidarity

BY LECH WALESA
Wall Street Journal
Friday, June 11, 2004

TomF

The music being played during Reagan's removal was, no doubt, the one every little American school child knows as "My Country 'tis of Thee." It seems to me that the tune was also used for a patriotic song in Norway as well as in England. The thing has a complex and often mistakenly reported history, as the information below indicates (and I am probably only confusing the issue with all this).

The tune for "America" (or My Country Tis of Thee) was first attributed to a German named Siegfried August Mahlmann around 1740 and was called "Gott segne Sachsenland" (God Bless Our Native Land). The tune has also been used in Britain, Scandinavia, and the United States. In 1832, American Samuel F. Smith wrote "My Country 'Tis of Thee" to be sung to Mahlmann's tune. It was first sung in public on July 4, 1831, at a children's concert at the Park Street Church, Boston.

My country,' tis of thee,
sweet land of liberty, of thee I sing;
land where my fathers died,
land of the pilgrims' pride,
from every mountainside let freedom ring!

My native country, thee,
land of the noble free, thy name I love;
I love thy rocks and rills,
thy woods and templed hills;
my heart with rapture thrills, like that above.

http://bensguide.gpo.gov/3-5/symbols/america.html

Text: Der Text wurde von Siegfried August Mahlmann im Jahre 1815 geschrieben. Die "Umdichtung" der zweiten Strophe geschah wahrscheinlich nach dem Tode von Friedrich August II im Jahre 1854.

Melodie: Die Melodie dürfte allseits bekannt sein, es handelt sich um "God save our gracious Queen". Im Original heißt das Lied aber "America, My country 'tis of thee" und wurde 1740 von Thesaurus Musicus veröffentlicht.

I Gott segne Sachsenland,
Wo fest die Treue stand
In Sturm und Nacht!
Ew'ge Gerechtigkeit,
Hoch überm Meer der Zeit,
Die jedem Sturm gebeut,
Schütz uns mit Macht!

http://www.joerg-erdmann.de/sachsen/

Come, Thou Almighty King

Text: Anonymous
Music: Felice de Giardini, 1716-1796
Tune: ITALIAN HYMN, Meter: 664.6664

Come, thou almighty King,
help us thy name to sing,
help us to praise!
Father all glorious,
o'er all victorious,
come and reign over us, Ancient of Days!

http://www.hymnsite.com/lyrics/umh061.sht

The words and tune of God Save the King are anonymous. They may date back to the seventeenth century. The lyrics and tune are sometimes credit[ed] to Henry Carey (1740). The tune first appeared in this form in 1744. It became popular in 1745, the second year of the Jacobite Uprising. After the Battle of Prestonpans, the bandleader of Theatre Royal, Drury Lane arranged the tune and played it at the end of the night - which other theatres picked up and which became customary. The tune became a rallying cry for the House of Hanover. It came to be referred to as the National Anthem at the beginning of the nineteenth century.

http://members.fortunecity.com/dikigoros/godsaveking.htm

Asgar

The music being played during Reagan's removal was, no doubt, the one every little American school child knows as "My Country 'tis of Thee." It seems to me that the tune was also used for a patriotic song in Norway as well as in England......

For me it was quite amusing listening to the BBC corespondent that obviously did not know this (well the same goes for me). He sounded almost stunned when he anounced that they played GSTQ to the removal.

shotamoose

Originally posted by Redleslie2
*shakes head, sighs.* There you go again.

Heh, touché.

Reminds me of the coverage of the Carter-Reagan election in The Onion's book 'Our Dumb Century': The positions of the candidates in the final debate were described as follows:
Carter: "Let's talk better mileage"
Reagan: "Kill the bastards"

PhilH

Sorry I didn't get back to this sooner. A number of people have responded to this assertion...

He played a decisive role in ending the Soviet Unions through an arms race that the Soviets in the end couldn't afford, thererby destabilising it.

...questioning whether or not some of the credit shouldn't go elsewhere. Nobody seems to have pointed out that accelerating an arms races between the world's two superpowers was an immensely irresponsible thing to do.

vorbis

not really PhilH, JFK brought the world far closer to nuclear war. In Reagan's time relations had chilled to the point that direct strikes against each other were not really considered. Besides each side already had enough missiles to blow up the other before the race. In a way the race was a masterful ploy as it exploited the soviet ego.

Dotsie~tmp

If there is such a thing as hell he's definatly this years guest of honour. His barbarous proxy wars in South America, catastrophic economics, a more than trippled already massive national debt (that can not be paid back and is again sky-rocketing under Bush) and list goes on. Most just don't know what an evil bastard he really was.

I hope they bury him upside down.

DMC

Just looking at a clip of the funeral.... Maggie Thatcher looks like she'll be next. Jebus she looks ill.

Now there is one grave I wanna have a disco with glitter ball and party lights to dance on....

Seaneh

First of all I think it's pretty laughable for Irish people to criticize RR.
His ecomonic policies are the single biggest reason for the massive up-swing in the worlds economy In the 80's and 90's.
His policies were what allowed massive American companies like Elan set up bases in Ireland, these American companies are in turn 90% of the reason for the so called Celtic Tiger, The reason all you pseudo-intelectual over grown students can sit in your nice chair with your nice computer paid for by your nice Job with your very nice pay packet is because of the massive injection of American money into the irish market which was a result of his tax cuts and economic policies.

The same can be said for the Majority of Europe, South America and Asia.

So sit there and "boo-hiss, bad man" all you want, forget why you can afford to live in your nice little semi with 3 bed rooms and central heating and call the man an idiot, but you owe him a hell of a lot more than he ever owed any of you.

In conclusion, God bless Ronald Ragean and thanks for all you've given the world.

The Corinthian

On a possibly related note I have noticed Irish flags at half mast at state buildings today. Please tell me that this is not because we are looking to become the next Puero Rico.

RainyDay

Originally posted by Seaneh
First of all I think it's pretty laughable for Irish people to criticize RR.
His ecomonic policies are the single biggest reason for the massive up-swing in the worlds economy In the 80's and 90's.
His policies were what allowed massive American companies like Elan set up bases in Ireland, these American companies are in turn 90% of the reason for the so called Celtic Tiger, The reason all you pseudo-intelectual over grown students can sit in your nice chair with your nice computer paid for by your nice Job with your very nice pay packet is because of the massive injection of American money into the irish market which was a result of his tax cuts and economic policies.

Please stop ranting and put your brain in gear.
1) Elan was an Irish company, started by Don Panoz in Athlone. It only recently moved its head office out of Ireland. So Raygun had about as much to do with Elan's startup as I did.
2) The influx of US multi-nationals happened long after Raygun was out of office. It had little to do with US tax policies and everything to do with Irish tax policies.
3) Raygun ran up huge budget defecits with his spending on the Star Wars defence systems and other military spending.

Victor

Originally posted by The Corinthian
On a possibly related note I have noticed Irish flags at half mast at state buildings today. Please tell me that this is not because we are looking to become the next Puero Rico.

Might have more to do with FF % of the poll!