Why was consititution changed recently?

yankinlk

Just a quick question regarding the citizenship referendum. Was the constitution changed recently and is this the reason we are being asked "to close the loophole"? And if so what was Ireland's policy before this time?

Am i right in understanding it was changed for the Good Friday agreement or something?

Your answer is appreciated, it will help me cut through all the crap about this referendum thing.

Sand

Prior to the Good Friday agreement the Irish constitution claimed that Northern Ireland was part of its rightful territory, but that for the meantime it wasnt part of the state as such.

As you can imagine this pissed off the unionist no end. Part of the deal was that this would be got rid off to please them. To keep the Republicans happy they were given some fuzzy language about everyone being born on the Island of Ireland being able to say they were Irish if they wished, so they wouldnt have to face up to the reality that NI is in the UK.

This of course is apparently being exploited by pregnant refugees/imigrants, in a way that was not apparently forseen at the time - hence the constitutional ammendment to add some more requirements.

Its a textbook example of the trouble fuzzily worded feel good politics can bring.

arcadegame2004

yankinlk , it works like this.

At the moment, anyone born on the island of Ireland gets automatic Irish citizenship. However, asylum-seekers are abusing this as 58% of female asylum seekers over the age of 16 are pregnant at time of arrival in Ireland. They are arriving her pregnant to claim citizenship for their babies to increase thei likeliehood of us letting them stay.

This amendment, if passsed, will say that you can only be born into Irish citizenship if one of your parents is born on the island of Ireland, or if your parent is entitled to be an Irish citizen. ALso, Dail Eireann will regain its power to pass laws on citizenship.

VOTE YES

bonkey

Originally posted by arcadegame2004
yankinlk , it works like this.

Pity none of that actually addresses the question asked, which is what happened to make it like this.

yankinlk...its pretty much like Sand said.

The major point which should also be noted is that prior to the 1998 referendum which changed the constitution as Sand described, citizenship by birth (i.e. for being born on the island) was a legislated entitlement since (I believe) the inception of the state). The 1998 referendum changed that to a constitutional right.

The current referendum seeks to remove it once more as a constitutional right, so that new legislation can then be implemented on the issue.

As Sand said, this is ostensibly to "close a loophole" for whatever reasons you choose to believe.

The other side of the coin is to note that it will also restrict who is eligible for citizenship more than has ever been the case since the inception of the state, which calls into question how the GFA created a loophole in the first place, when all it did was constitutionalise what had always been a legislative entitlement.

If you want to know more on that, plough through any of the massive threads here, or - possibly more usefully - tune into the next boards debate whih starts tomorrow, is about the referendum, and will run until the day itself. This isn't the place for me or anyone to be trying to plug their side.

There's a booklet by the govt on it which - to be fair - is pretty balanced and informative. If you go to www.refcom.ie, and then click on the "Referendum on Itish Citizenship" option in the top-left, it'll take you to a page with a link for a pdf (and html?) copy of the booklet.

Its worth a read.

Cheers,

jc

yankinlk

thanks guys, just what i was looking for.

Zombrex

Originally posted by bonkey


There's a booklet by the govt on it which - to be fair - is pretty balanced and informative.

I think the referendum commission is an independent body from any government, no?

Might be wrong.

arcadegame2004

Yes the Referendum Commission is an independent body. And the booklet is VERY independent and neutral.

Zaphod

"Ireland as we of today would surely have her: not free merely, but Gaelic as well; not Gaelic merely, but free as well."
Padraig Pearse, AUGUST 1, 1915 [/B]

Patrick Pearse in English.
Pádraig Mac Piarais as Gaeilge.

"Pádraig Pearse" is often cited, but is incorrect.

Zombrex

Originally posted by arcadegame2004
They are arriving her pregnant to claim citizenship for their babies to increase thei likeliehood of us letting them stay.

VOTE YES

No they are not. The vast majority of them leave after the baby is born. They do it so the baby, when they are grown up, will have the option to work in the EU if they wish.

VOTE NO

This change is not only flawed, but it has been rushed through with little or no long term concideration or planning. It opens a number of legal ambiguites (the mother dies before the baby is born) that are not addressed properly.

I would approve of measure to discourage pregnant women from travelling to Ireland while pregnant, as it is dangerous to both the child and mother. Personally I don't care if, in 20 years the baby wishes to work in the EU. But this ammendment is flawed and not the way to address this tiny short term issue.

bonkey

Originally posted by Zaphod
"Pádraig Pearse" is often cited, but is incorrect.

This isn't the "my grammar and spelling are better than yours" forum, I'm afraid.

jc