European elections N.I.

Battlesnake

Opinions on candidates please.
Why has DUP gone with such an aggressive campaign?
Four main parties focusing too much on local politics?

Opinion on John Gilliland and his 'no politics, just action' policy - will he be the man who will stand up for all without discrimination?

Can any politician from N.I. really be non-bias?

sceptre

I haven't been following thr campaign so I won't offer an opinino on the first part of your post (except that I expect the DUP remember how well they did in the assembly elections from being non-compromising)

Originally posted by Battlesnake
Can any politician from N.I. really be non-bias?

A politician could but the (bulk of) voters probably couldn't. The Alliance party never made much headway from trying to take themselves outside of the whinging politics, Labour and the Conservatives tried to run the odd candidate but never got anywhere with it. If I ran for election in Northern Ireland I'd be pigeon-holed as a Roman Papist even though I've been to precisely two Catholic masses (excluding weddings and funerals) since 1993, both of them in the same church in Castlerea and only because I was visiting friends who go.

David-[RLD]-

Originally posted by Battlesnake
Opinions on candidates please.
Why has DUP gone with such an aggressive campaign?
Four main parties focusing too much on local politics?

Opinion on John Gilliland and his 'no politics, just action' policy - will he be the man who will stand up for all without discrimination?

Can any politician from N.I. really be non-bias?

DUP? Because they're fanatics. They're obsessed with this whole "We must stop Sinn Féin/IRA" thing. They're also hypocrites, Paisley Snr. being the biggest one in their party. Their campaign is aggressive because they're worried. Sinn Féin are gathering massive support over the country now and all Unionists can see the inevitability of a United Ireland.

Well with Stormont suspended what else can they focus on?

I just read John Gilliland's website. He sounds a bit like a Unionist (although I could be wrong) so I doubt he would get massive support especially not from Republicans (Sinn Féin would be their prefence, I'm assuming) and Loyalists (probably DUP).

Can they be non-bias? I'm not sure.

DMC

The DUP's campaign is top the poll, and nothing else. They are running scared that Sinn Fein will give them a run for their money, that's why they keep it local.

As for the result of the election, it actually does depend on who tops the poll. If Jim Allister of the DUP tops it, then the UUP's Jim Nicholson may get in 3rd, with Sinn Fein's De Brun splitting the 2. But that all depends if the DUP voters vote 1,2 rather than X. If they continue their preferences, then Nicholson should be fine. if not Morgan of SDLP may sneak in.

If Bairbre De Bruin tops, then it would be fairly clear cut; SDLP should pick up a lot of transfers from the Shinners, so then it would be DUP 2nd and SDLP 3rd.

I dont see any independents, including John Gilliland, even with his farmers support, as that is as split as the rest of the province.

Advice offered on other constituencies too

AngelofFire

If i lived in NI id vote for the alliance party. Tribal parties such as sinn fein and DUP mean that people line themselves up behind green and orange banners and shout whats best for THEIR community.That will hardly help to build a lasting peace.

Raskolnikov

Originally posted by Battlesnake
Opinions on candidates please.

Jim Allister: DUP candidate replacing Ian Paisley, in my view, is only running on a vehement anti-Europe and keep Sinn Fein/IRA from topping the poll. 50-50 chance of topping the poll with Sinn Fein.

Bairbre de Brun: Sinn Fein, will poll very strongly in Belfast but isn't so well known outside of there. Nevertheless, stands a good chance at topping the poll.

John Gilliland: Independant, will poll well with the famers, gain Alliance party transfers, seems an honest candidate, unlikely to get in though.

Jim Nicholson: UUP. Mr Martin an Austrian MEP has videoed MEPs signing the attendance register claiming their £200 attendance allowance and immediately leaving the parliament. Mr. Nicholson was amoungst those spotted, fair play to the bucko! Despite this he'll take a third seat for UUP.

Martin Morgan: SDLP, probably one of the most honest candidates and unfortunately, not likely to get in. Shame.

Lots of others who have no chance whatsoever.

Originally posted by Battlesnake

Opinion on John Gilliland and his 'no politics, just action' policy - will he be the man who will stand up for all without discrimination?

I think Morgan could equally claim to run on that ticket, as could the outsider Eamonn McCann. Again, I don't think he stands a chance, not with the four big parties canvassing particularily agressively.

There'll be no suprises here. DUP will top the vote, Sinn Fein second, narrowly missing the top spot. UUP should get home comfortably in third.

Raskolnikov

Originally posted by David-[RLD]-
DUP? Because they're fanatics. They're obsessed with this whole "We must stop Sinn Féin/IRA" thing. They're also hypocrites, Paisley Snr. being the biggest one in their party.

Stop Sinn Fein? Surely you mean stop the papists!

http://www.newsletter.co.uk/story/12562

DUP for a fairer future!

Battlesnake

I am presbyterian, live in Belfast and this will be the first election I have voted in.
I was going to vote DUP as my whole family does, until I read their flyer when it came through the door. They seemed to have very little to say about europe and their comment 'Sinn Fein/IRA is the enemy' I thought was too extreme.
Fair enough they are an opponent in the elections, thereafter though they (however unhappy DUP might be about it) are a group of people that they have to work with for the good of the whole of Northern Ireland. Also I felt their comment was irresponsible and will only alienate catholics and protestants from one another and enevitibly hinder the peace process further.

As for John Gilliland sounding like a unionist - I don't really care what he is.
He has plans for what he wants to achieve for all of us in Europe and his approach was refreshing.

I can't say that I want a united Ireland. This is not because I'm am unionist or sectarian. (My bf of three years is a catholic from Dublin)

I believe that Northern Ireland stands in its own right. It has its own diverse and wonderful culture which has elements from south of the border but is ultimately different. Having a united Ireland I feel would belittle the wonderful little place I call home. I think that the Irish government couldn't cope financially with the increase in population and I wouldn't imagine them to be elated at the prospect of taking on the Northern Ireland's problems.
The british governments health care, benefits etc take care of us better than what would be possible if Ireland were united.

For me personally what I want is someone who will get the best for all of us in Europe. I also want the euro.
What is conflicting with this is that, I believe the british government can offer us more and therefore want to remain with the UK, which I suppose would make me a unionist although I don't like to be catagorised as such. Also I want a new agreement as I believe the last one was a bit of a mess, I mean letting murderers go? What sort of example is that setting to kids? Do something wrong and its alright you won't get punished. Too little respect for human life.

If I didn't have these two conflicting issues I would prob vote SDLP.
I felt that Eamonn Mc Cann for me was a little bit too extreme with his thinking and to be quite honest if I hear anything else about Iraq I will scream. With the green party - too focused on one thing - hence their name!

Tribal parties such as sinn fein and DUP mean that people line themselves up behind green and orange banners and shout whats best for THEIR community.That will hardly help to build a lasting peace.

Angel of Fire - Thank you thats exactly the way I feel.

Throughout trying to decide who to vote for I've felt distressed and totally bewildered. It hurts me that things seem not to be moving forward as hoped. I would like to bring up my kids here but that seems unlikely. I won't bring them up where their home country is being torn apart by obsessed people who won't leave the past behind them.

There'll be no suprises here. DUP will top the vote, Sinn Fein second, narrowly missing the top spot. UUP should get home comfortably in third.

Raskolnikov - You're prob right, but I hope that you aren't. I hope that John G. gets in there somewhere because he's the only one I can see that is entirely focused on Europe and not the local boring tit for tat.

Raskolnikov

Originally posted by Battlesnake

As for John Gilliland sounding like a unionist - I don't really care what he is.
He has plans for what he wants to achieve for all of us in Europe and his approach was refreshing.

I agree and I would think that Gilliland certainly doesn't wanted to be labelled as a Unionist. Gilliland also has the potential to appeal to a wide variety of N. Irelanders. He'll do well in the rural parts on the North because of his involvement with farmers. Alliance party and Workers Party (a Unionist and Republican party) have backed him as have the Women's Coallition. Not only that but he's one of the only candidates who actually has a game plan for when he gets elected. Gilliland is a guy who can bring people together too, he'll do well but unfortunately not well enough.

Victor

Originally posted by Battlesnake
They seemed to have very little to say about europe and their comment 'Sinn Fein/IRA is the enemy' I thought was too extreme. Fair enough they are an opponent in the elections,

I suppose so in this election, however in most elections SF and the DUP aren't competitors as no one voter is likely to choose either SF or DUP as their choice. Most elections in the north are fought on a DUP v UUP and SF v SDLP as two parallel competitions for one seat.

Originally posted by Battlesnake
I believe that Northern Ireland stands in its own right. It has its own diverse and wonderful culture which has elements from south of the border but is ultimately different.

Ah, the smell of petrol bombs in hte morning

thejollyrodger

I think that the Irish government couldn't cope financially with the increase in population and I wouldn't imagine them to be elated at the prospect of taking on the Northern Ireland's problems.

I think thats hitting the nail on the head. Northern Ireland and its so called culture ( like Europe recognised it ? but even Cork got it European culture capital of the year and Belfast cant ) is completly different to Ireland.

The only culture I see, is two tribes from a legacy of the early 20th Century banging drums walking streets were british (which they arent, cos britan is Wales & England + Great Britan is Wales England and Scotland) or playing didly didly irish wackery music saying a few words in irish and figurin that makes them irish.

The whole lot up there are in fact Ulster Scots, genetically both communites have more in common with each other than people in the republic. Very tribal lot, to say the least.

Just take a look who is topping the poles these days up north, Sinn Fein/We are a terrorist/Mafia organisation and DUP/wacko fundamentalist (like in the deep south USA) god fearin' catholic hatin' bible preechin etc etc. Hard core extremests fully in control.

Just like Ronald Regan, I'm totally dead against 1,5 million lazy, unproductive, spungers joining our social welfare queue or 2 tribes draging our proud nation down. These people can go and find somewhere else to be unemployed.

The norths economy is a joke and its NEVER Addressed.

I cant understand any why any so called nationalist cant be happy with a better health care system and benefits and make peace with unionism. Why cant they do the honourable thing and sing song save the Queen and appreciate that they are part and parcel of the United Kingdom.

I also cant understand the northern Unionist, who in my eyes has been shafted by the English government. Like, have you ever seen the infastructure in the north compare to that of England? The English spend what £10bn every year on the north (and its pennys for them) simply maintaining things. Has it ever occured to them that they have been shafted ? yet never get anything of note of the English government:S

Also I want a new agreement as I blieve the last one was a bit of a mess, I mean letting murderers go?

And what? you want everyone in Ireland to go 1 more time on the merry go round ?

I want the Irish government to stop wasting its time up the north and spend that time and energy down south fixing all our problems.why cant you lot sort your own mess out??

I believe that Northern Ireland stands in its own right.

Well I wish the north would just get on with itself and stop acting like a thorn in Irelands side. How much time and energy have we devoted to listening to the problems of another country, dealing with terrrorists who dont even recognise the Gardaí (Police) or Óglaigh na hÉireann (Irish Defence Forces)??

thejollyrodger

Eamonn Mc Cann ..... green party ...

Green party - non tribal - havent a chance.
Eamonn Mc Cann - what a joke - cant stand these non capitalist people

Battlesnake

When refering to culture. I wasn't meaning anything to do with the marching season or the joke of a celebration that was st paddys day this year. (whoever organised it made a right mess)

If you fall over in Belfast someone will help you up. In the city centre you can have great craic chatting with someone while waiting for your bus home.
Rarely seen in other cities.
Despite how things may look from the outside the majority of people here are friendly and good. They are held back from getting what they want in life by a small percentage of extremists who can't see the sun for their mountain of history books.

When you talk about the Ulster scots I see your point entirely. I'm half scottish and I'm sure if I looked into the other half of the family tree there would be a lot of it there too. When I talk about the culture I mean what I'm getting from my friends on both sides. They aren't interested with the whole boring nonsense and just want a better future. Sadly that means a lot of them are moving away for a new start elsewhere, more opportunities. Yes you are right there are a lot of people who are unemployed and are claiming benefits. A lot of the people who stay here do so because they don't have the means to leave and therefore the number of them just increases. They are beginning to be the only ones left.

I take offence to

Just like Ronald Regan, I'm totally dead against 1,5 million lazy, unproductive, spungers joining our social welfare queue or 2 tribes draging our proud nation down. These people can go and find somewhere else to be unemployed.

Northern Ireland is not as attractive to industries as the south because of its past history and current conflict. Therefore people are not given the opportunities on their doorstep and are seen as unproductive as many of the jobs available are menial.
People here work damn hard. Their work is unnoticed as other issues take up the headlines. Also a lot of the people remaining here are working class and have maybe not had the advantages that many of us take for granted like a good education. This is not their fault, they do their best with what they have and they work as I said damn hard for what they get in life.

Quit it with the tribal analagy. Where do you think you are Africa? You're being overly dramatic, just like the politicians.

As to the issue of unemployment
Every single member of my family is employed, studying or retired. I could name you hundreds of other people from here whose situations are the same.

The case is that 5% of the population drag the rest of us down.
My grandfather had a business worth millions until it was blown up by the IRA. Many people in Belfast would have had really good incomes and a fair employer. I'm sure this is the case in many past businesses. I won't even go into the amount of lives lost or the amount of people I know who've been affected, myself included.
I could hold grudges but I won't because I believe that someday this whole mess will be sorted out and Ulster can start to become the happy place that it is under all the rubbish. If people want to continuously condemn our future and put us down. Then go right ahead take your best shoot. We've all been through a lot and theres probably more to come. People here are strong and they have hope.
We have the the ability to laugh no matter how hard things get. We stand up and try again every time our hopes have been dashed.
That's our culture - our strength.

By the way a lot of the people you see on the news yelling and screaming are what you guys down there call 'knackers'. Every city has got them, clad in addidas. Here ain't any different. They're an easy target for the politicians to influence, they take what they are told as gospel. Then they go cause havoc.

I want the Irish government to stop wasting its time up the north and spend that time and energy down south fixing all our problems.why cant you lot sort your own mess out??

I totally agree. I do not see what they have to do with up here. It ain't their business and they don't live here so I don't understand how they can fix what they have no first hand experience in themselves. I also think the same about the British government, only that they have an obligation in some way to get involved as we are part of the UK. Ultimately it is the the Northern Irish peoples job to sort it out.

As for being a thorn in the republics side. Sorry. I don't wanna be and everyone I know doesn't want to be either. Actually I never really thought that we were and to be honest rarely think about down south. We want to have the power to sort things out ourselves. I think what is needed is representitives for the future of Northern Ireland and not ones that are wrapped up in the past and their own hatred. The majority just want to live their lives in peace without the headaches!!

thejollyrodger

my posts may be clouded with my own personal experience. I spent years studying and working the north. Never like the place, always thought Belfast was a "hole", I was descriminated against on a number of occasions.

A point I found bewlldering was the dislike/resentment for English people from both community even though they pay for everything up North.

......Northern Ireland is not as attractive to industries as the south because of its past history and current conflict. .............as many of the jobs available are menial.
People here work damn hard. .......... ........ people remaining here are working class ..............This is not their fault, they do their best with what they have and they work as I said damn hard for what they get in life.

Yeah, there far less oppurtunties up north than in the Rest of United Kingdom or down south. There are two fairly good universities there but the economy in the north is a a major problem.

Down south the its looks like were moving to a knowledge based economy, where there is top jobs available for those who want them and service jobs/revenue etc spun of this.

Northern Ireland because of its nature is a provience in the UK which is simply maintained and administrated. Its most unlikely that it will ever produce/offer anything other than small to medium companies oppurtunities or in the Civil Service.

Maybe my words were harsh about those unemployed people , but down south, dont get a job and your on your own (bar Social Security). However dont go to a hospital in Ireland cos they are crap.

When I look around the rest of Europe and look at the more generous hand outs for the unemployed I just see more people unemployed. Ireland cant afford those type of people. A given worker in Ireland is four times more productive than in Northern Ireland and works the longest hours in Europe. Thats why I called I called them (N.I) lazy.

I feel sorry for all those people in the housing estates who traditionally worked in factories, I just see more job losses with EU expansion.

I totally agree. I do not see what they have to do with up here.

Great, I wish our T.D's would see the same point of view and call it a day up there. The view that everyone down south want a "united ireland" is a misguided one.

Quit it with the tribal analagy

That was my experience, on many occasions I was asked my religion because "I didnt act like one community or the other", when I didnt say, it drove some people up the wall, they HAD to know. They kept at me until I told them. Once I did tell them, I was casted into one group. I didnt give a toss but it just gave me a taste of the division still around.

My grandfather had a business worth millions until it was blown up by the IRA.

Sinn Fein/Provo/Mafia scum. Cant belive they are making electoral gains down south. As far as I see it, its one of Northern Irelands most successful exports.

The North looks like it will have a peaceful future (eventually) however that still looks like another 10-15 years away. Its easy to knock the place when you dont live there. Best of luck 2 ya;)

bonkey

Originally posted by Battlesnake
Can any politician from N.I. really be non-bias?

Why qualify that with the "from N.I." ???

The answer is no, regardless of where they are from.

jc

Battlesnake

My bf is catholic and from Dublin.
He pretty much thinks Belfast is 'a hole' and doesn't like me being here because of bad experiences I've gone through. I think one of his first thoughts about the place was that it looked really industrial, few old buildings (blown up). Thought it looked kind of muggy and dirty.
I used to live in North Belfast under the shadow of the cavehill which meant a hell of a lot of rain which I think further depressed the atmosphere.
Surprisingly since I moved to the other side of town (where is has rained a total of 3 times since feb!!! WOOHOO!) his opinion has changed somewhat. As its my own place he comes up more and we've been going out more in the town.
One thing he likes about here is that when people are out, they're out for the laugh and don't really care about what anyones wearing etc.
According to him in Dublin when you go out theres a lot of pretentious ya yas and you have to be wearing eg. the right shade of beige shoes!
Up here you don't have to leave the house at 6pm to get into a club, most people head out about 9ish. . . . .
Everywhere has its up and downs, I guess Dublin only is the way it is because its a growing city doing well.

I'm really sorry that you were discriminated against. Unfortunately there are a lot of assholes about. Hopefully you'll meet some dead on people from up here someday to show you the good side!!!

Am not too keen on English myself. . . . would never want to live there. I guess its hard to relate. . . .Scotland on the other hand. . .home from home.

On the topic of people working harder down there. That's true.
It has its benefits but also has its disadvantages. When I first visited Dublin it wasn't what I had expected. You hear about everyone being so friendly. . .
I haven't found that to be the case. Everyones running about stressed out and self obsessed. They don't seem to give a **** and I've found in shops its hard to get an assistant to help you. As my bf put it to me one day, everyone in Dublin has their own little 2 inch space surrounding them and outside that they don't care.
He sees going into town as the dreaded experience.
I have met some lovely people down there but only through my bfs family and friends. The likelyhood of my having a bit of craic talking to a shop assistant or someone on the street is slim. Where in Dublin can you meet new people and not have your friendliness rejected? :dunno:

Heres to happy times for both cities