Decentralisation

sceptre

Erm, hello.

I don't know if any of you remember this but this forum is dedicated to polite discussion of political issues and all that palaver. Reading your erm, discussion above it appears that you may indeed have forgotten about the politeness aspect of what we like to do around here. Hence, take a holiday. Pete, a week. True, a fortnight (the extra week's for managing to include an insult in every single post I can read on the page below the reply screen). Odds are good that neither of you will like this particularly much, either for the ban at all or for the length. Help forum, feedback forum or PM to me will get you a brief discussion on that.

edit: actually, after the final dig above make that two for pete as well. I'll leave this here for a day or so and then recycle all the rubbish out as the discussion's been interesting at times and may continue that way.

lost_lad

Ok screw the above reminds of being in the office way to much. Useless pointless bickering for points on a scoreboard that no one is keeping tally off!!

I am a civil servant who is affected by the move. What bugs the sh!t out of me is that i'm expected to put my life on hold while they decide if it will happen or not. I'm due to go to drogheda in 2007/8/20. I'm expected to sit on my arse (which i actually have been doing for 6 months now but thats a diff story i think ) but my life on hold in the slim chance that Decentralisation may or may not happen. If i want to know whats happening i have to read the papers because even are bosses do not have a clue because even they are not being told.
Home ownership and settling down with my missus would be a nice thing to do in the short/medium term (she being sent to portlaoise - drogheda over subscribed massively so no chance of getting the same location) but what if i blow my first time buyers grant on drogehda or portlaoise or ballymafu*kit and end up in kerry or not moving at all because lets face it it could happen!!!

The incompetance which encompasses the civil service (not all but a hell of a lot) will be made worse. Why not one big fu*king office for each depatment in some of the main towns/citys around the country? Will save taxpayers money in the long term, cut down on training expenses, postage back and forth between diff offices, will also make promotion ten times easier because you know where you can be sent ( up a floor or down a floor) not 200 miles away!!

Decentralistion is enough of an issue to warrant a vote of no confidence in FF/PD gov.

Who benefits from this really?? A few more votes for FF or the land owners and property developers who keep the FF coffers lined?
Me thinks the latter...

lost_lad

pete wrote:

http://www.rte.ie/news/2005/0223/flynnp.html



That's not exactly true, is it?

If you want to be promoted i believe you have to agree to go where ever the job is going.

NewDubliner

true wrote:

Your bosses, and the people who pay them, make those strategic decisions.
( to decentralise or not etc ). It is not your job to do so.
I said "Why, are you one of the whingers that just wants more money in order

This is a forum about 'Politics', is it not appropriate to discuss the political decision that is the 'decentralisation scheme'?

Or, are you trying to strangle opposition to our government's equivalent to the Chinese 'cultural revolution'. where all IT staff are to be sent to the countryside & dissenters will be 're-educated'?

Speaking for myself, I'm not looking for money to move. I live in Dublin, my family lives in Dublin. Traffic is not a problem for me. It's a beautiful place to live. I enjoy the many amenities offered by living in a capital city.

I do not want to go, not for any money, not for any promotion.

The few I know who are content with the decision already live near the selected locations.

RicardoSmith

true wrote:

Your bosses, and the people who pay them, make those strategic decisions.
( to decentralise or not etc ). It is not your job to do so.
In many peoples eyes, it will take some doing to make the service less efficient
Its bad enough as it is. Ah well, maybe stress free traffic conditions, no pollution and lower housing cost will be to you satisfaction in Ballymalack. Lets hope so. .

Coming from the private sector into my current role I have to say the office I work in is as well organised if not better managed than any place I've ever worked in the private sector.

Like NewDubliner I'm from Dublin, all my family and friends are in Dublin, I don't want to live in the middle of nowhere, change house, schools, college all at major cost to myself sell, in order to gain nothing at all, since any time saved commuting, will be negated by all the commuting I'll have to do up and down to Dublin and in travelling longer distances down the country for services and facilities that are beside me in Dublin.

Regardless of makes the decisions, if a decision is made that is just plain stupid, and will end up costing more money, then people (we're all tax payers) should ask hard questions about how their tax is flittered away, in political games that achieve little other than political point scoring.

true wrote:

I said "Why, are you one of the whingers that just wants more money in order to relocate?" Is is a question , not a statement. You have not answered it yet. What is implied ? By not answering the question you are indeed one of these whingers.

Your question is offensive, because it implies that if you want to be reinbursed for considerable out of pocket expenses, you're a whinger. Thats just unjust. Besides for the majority of people who simply don't want to move, relocation expenses isn't the issue, as even a glance of the issues and opinions (even in this thread) would tell you (if you'd read them). Anyone that wants relocation expenses, must want to move in the first place.

Since I'm not in the Civil services, and I don't want to move, your question doesn't apply to me, at all. But I'm amused at how you can be judge and jury, when you have so little grasp of the facts, and such a simplistic view of the issues. You have me pigeon holed as a whinging incompetent civilservant, case closed, only because I posted in opposition to your comments. Wheres the justification for that?

the corpo

surprised at the decision to ban pete. the other chap, i can understand, but pete?

RicardoSmith

lost_lad wrote:

If you want to be promoted i believe you have to agree to go where ever the job is going.

Thats how it works in our office. Any new promotions are only given if you agree to signing a contract where you must agree to relocate. So if you do not want to relocate, you can't accept a promotion.

If you refuse it and subsequently your office doesn't relocate what then? Consider that promotions happen a lot slower in the civil service and you could be waiting for a couple of years for it.

RicardoSmith

the corpo wrote:

surprised at the decision to ban pete. the other chap, i can understand, but pete?

He was suckered into it, but sadly took the bait. Its an emotive and highly charged issue for those involved. Pity since hes invested considerable effort in his more considered posts thus far. :cool:

ishmael whale

allie_e17 wrote:

With the Goverment facing a big bill for the nursing home charges, would they not be better off abandoning the ludicrous political stroke that is Decentralisation and all the money it will cost?

A sensible suggestion, also contained in this SBP article.

http://www.sbpost.ie/post/pages/p/story.aspx-qqqid=3099-qqqx=1.asp

“…. At €1 billion, we are talking of €1 out of every €10 that will be spent by the new Health Service Executive (HSE), though there are indications that the bill could be spread over a period of years. There is an argument - and a respectable one - that this is a one-off; that the exchequer returns may (yet again!) come to the rescue. Or indeed, that refunds/restitution are an ‘internal transfer'. This is sophistry. This policy/decision-making debacle will hit the funding and delivery of healthcare, as well as the government's wider fiscal strategy. Equally, the ‘opportunity-cost' (which could have been funded even by the interest on the €1 billion) is huge.

The ‘collateral' financial damage cannot easily be restricted to Health and Children. The pain will be felt right across the cabinet table or, more accurately, across the country. Is there anyone who really believes in the whole decentralisation debacle, which was economically indefensible and showed scant respect for any stakeholder in the civil society? There would be some symmetry if the government showed a little humility and absorbed the costs of the latest debacle by simply cancelling this ill-conceived exercise. …”

NewDubliner

RicardoSmith wrote:

If you refuse it and subsequently your office doesn't relocate what then? Consider that promotions happen a lot slower in the civil service and you could be waiting for a couple of years for it.

Maybe it's a test of commitment/loyalty to the government?

Then again, maybe someone who turns down promotion for the sake of their family life is just the kind of person we want making important decisions affecting the lives of others?

uncivilservant

Some observations on the latest report of meeting of the Decentralisation sub-committee of General Council, which was released by the PSEU today (http://www.pseu.ie/docs/Decent26.doc)

1. It appears that what were previously understood to be CAF "expressions of interest" in decentralising have magically become full applications.

In the case of departments which are decentralising in full, each member of staff in Dublin who has not applied to decentralise with their existing or another department will be invited to indicate where they would like to go.

In the case of departments which are decentralising in part, each member of staff in Dublin who has not applied to decentralise with their existing or another department will be asked whether they would be interested in volunteering to move out of the department and, if so, will be invited to indicate where they would like to go.

(emphasis mine)

Furthermore, the two paragraphs quoted above appear to indicate that those staff that have "applied" to decentralise will be not be asked to "express an interest" in a Dublin relocation. Curious.

2. The idea that staff remaining in Dublin could request transfer to specific geographic locations has been well and truly knocked on the head:

Each department will provide the individuals concerned with a list of all departments remaining in Dublin . This will outline the existing Dublin office locations for each organisation but it will be made clear to staff that they will only be able to apply for a department and not a specific location. If a person is interested in a specific location, s/he may apply to move to that location after moving to the new department and the matter will be dealt with in accordance with that department’s normal internal procedures.

Interesting times.

NewDubliner

uncivilservant wrote:

2. The idea that staff remaining in Dublin could request transfer to specific geographic locations has been well and truly knocked on the head:

So, someone from Rathfarnham could apply to move to Revenue on the basis that Revenue is staying in Dublin & would then be assigned to Revenue's Ashtown office from where they could apply to be moved to a city-centre office? Seems like anyone with a preference to work in the city centre should only select from departments that only have city centre locations or run the risk of being assigned to somewhere awkward.

Which department in Dublin should webmasters, DBAs, Unix Admins, middleware designers or programmers ask to move to?

The_Conductor

NewDubliner wrote:

Which department in Dublin should webmasters, DBAs, Unix Admins, middleware designers or programmers ask to move to?

Pretty much any Department- as they are likely to be reassigned to purely administrative duties.......

NewDubliner

smccarrick wrote:

Pretty much any Department- as they are likely to be reassigned to purely administrative duties.......

Would that be before or after they handed their job descriptions to the suits from A**enture?

The_Conductor

NewDubliner wrote:

Would that be before or after they handed their job descriptions to the suits from A**enture?

Pretty much irrelevant really.......
Look whats happening in the Dept. of Agriculture.....

NewDubliner

smccarrick wrote:

Pretty much irrelevant really.......
Look whats happening in the Dept. of Agriculture.....

What's that? I must have missed a story somewhere.

Gael

Ok I think the vast bulk of us agree that the current governemntal decentralisation plan is a joke. I want to know how you would do if if given the task. How would you change the Dublinocentric development of this state?
Build a new capital?
Move the capital to another city?
Create new regional bodies/assemblies with specific power and put them in place of the various county councils?
Let your imagination run wild, but please make resonable recommendations that would actually be enforcible and that wouldn't bankrupt the country.

Sleepy

Build any new government offices outside of Dublin.
Sell the more valuable government buildings and relocate the staff to new offices built with the proceeds of the sale.

TBH, I think the government are making an arse of the decentralisation but I don't think the civil servants have any right to complain about being relocated.

Gael

Sleepy wrote:

Build any new government offices outside of Dublin.

Could you be more specific?

Sleepy

Should any government department need to expand, or should a new department be created it's offices should be built in the regions as opposed to in Dublin.

NewDubliner

Sleepy wrote:

but I don't think the civil servants have any right to complain about being relocated.

Why so?

Sleepy wrote:

Should any government department need to expand, or should a new department be created it's offices should be built in the regions as opposed to in Dublin.

The 'Legal Aid Board' was exiled to Cahirciveen......

Ivana Bacik:...... For example, the decentralisation of the Legal Aid Board to the hometown of then Minister for Justice, John O'Donoghue has been nothing short of a disaster. There are now effectively two headquarters for the Legal Aid Board, one in Cahirciveen and one in Dublin. The costs associated with this nonsense are significant and suburban Legal Aid Centres in Blanchardstown, Tallaght and Finglas are now faced with closure.

Decentralisation should not be about 'anywhere but Dublin'. It should be a question of 'right office in the right location'.

Shouldn't the location of a new office take account of convenient access for its customers and the availability of a pool of suitably experienced and educated staff?

The public service is already decentralised, there are many offices already operating outside of Dublin. Why is it necessary to relocate more offices how much will it cost financially and in human terms?

I think we need to know the answer to this question, before we can imagine a scheme that will work.

uncivilservant

Am i the only one to see the irony of creating a new, separate thread on decentralisation when there's a perfectly good one here?

Sleepy

NewDubliner wrote:

Why so?

Equity. No one in the private sector could do anything about it if their boss decided to up and move offices to the ar$ehole of Leitrim, I don't see why public-sector employees should be pandered to simply because their unions are mafia like.

NewDubliner

Sleepy wrote:

Equity. No one in the private sector could do anything about it if their boss decided to up and move offices to the ar$ehole of Leitrim, I don't see why public-sector employees should be pandered to simply because their unions are mafia like.

So, just because some private sector employers have no respect for their staff, the government should behave in the same way?

Would the private sector move a business away from its customers and away from the human resources it depends on?

If you want discuss the best ways to decentralise, lets first ascertain the reasons why we should decentralise and start from there.

Sleepy

Why we should decentralise is clear: if done properly it would save taxpayers money and reduce the over-population problem in Dublin.

It's not a lack of respect for anyone, it's the modern world. If you don't like it, get a job somewhere else.

ishmael whale

Sleepy wrote:

Why we should decentralise is clear: if done properly it would save taxpayers money and reduce the over-population problem in Dublin.

You are right that if there were benefits to be obtained from decentralisation civil servants should co-operate. However, decentralisation as proposed will simply increase costs to the taxpayer and make no impact on regional development. These points have been well gone over in the thread below.

Gael wrote:

How would you change the Dublinocentric development of this state? Build a new capital? Move the capital to another city? Create new regional bodies/assemblies with specific power and put them in place of the various county councils?
.

I think there’s two aspects to this – the political and the economic.

If you mean what’s the best way of promoting economic development outside the Dublin area, then the answer is essentially along the lines of the National Spatial Strategy. What causes growth to centre on Dublin is its economies of scale. We therefore need to promote concentration in a small number of alternative regional locations. In the past we’ve attempted to spread development to every town with the result being, as we see, no centre emerges that can compete with Dublin.

If you mean how best to delegate political power from central government to local authorities, then we might first question the use of the term ‘Dublinocentric’ as, while hosting the seat of Government, Dublin as a location has not really carried any particular weight in determining the political agenda despite it share of national population and resources.

If you are interested in seeing local authorities being empowered to develop and implement their own policies, then clearly moving the capital, or scattering government offices about, achieves nothing. Empowering local authorities to raise their own finances and making them responsible for more services would.

Decentralising the taxation function is vital because otherwise whatever a local authority adopts as its policy is subject to whatever funding is allocated by central government. This means that authorities tend to simply advocate expenditure for their own areas, without any particular thought as to whether the expenditure is actually what they need – e.g. Western Rail Corridor.

gurramok

Leave them as they are, no decentralisation and the cost would be zilch

NewDubliner

Sleepy wrote:

Why we should decentralise is clear: if done properly it would save taxpayers money and reduce the over-population problem in Dublin.

How could such a measure (even done 'properly') reduce the over-population in Dublin? For this plan to function, somebody else has to buy the offices and houses vacated by the people you want to evict.

It's not a lack of respect for anyone, it's the modern world. If you don't like it, get a job somewhere else.

Very troll, minister.

monument

gurramok wrote:

Leave them as they are, no decentralisation and the cost would be zilch

If I was in government I wouldn’t see it as spending money, it’s just giving something back to my friends who just happen to be builders.

Really thought, if I was in charge of any organization that was planning to move loads of staff away from their current homes, families, friends, and community, I would first consult my staff.

shoegirl

Simple. I'd break up the current administration into 5 groups and move 4 of them even to Limerick, Cork, Galway and Waterford respectively. It makes most sense to relocate to the cities, where the infrastructure is ready and its easier to hire and get people to move towards.

cdebru

uncivilservant wrote:

Am i the only one to see the irony of creating a new, separate thread on decentralisation when there's a perfectly good one here?

it has been decentralised

cdebru

of course since most of the civil servants dont live in the city centre but in the suburbs of dublin and beyond
they could just move the departments closer to where the civil servants actually live ie out to the suburbs

which would cut down on the traffic entering the city centre in the morning and leaving in the evening

of course they could try discussing it with the civil servants themselves

NewDubliner

Some departments have already decentralised to the suburbs & those locations have been very popular with those in their catchment area. It might not work for specialist offices where losing staff and retraining others could be hugely disruptive and expensive.

cdebru wrote:

which would cut down on the traffic entering the city centre in the morning and leaving in the evening

Until new people start work in the vacated city-centre offices......

The 'decentralisation will solve Dublin traffic problems' argument (first put forward by FF), is total nonsense.

ArthurDent

cdebru wrote:

it has been decentralised

Classic

The_Conductor

cdebru wrote:

of course they could try discussing it with the civil servants themselves

You know- that is almost a novel idea.......
Pity there has been no meaningful discussion of any nature whatsoever.

Can we get this thread merged with the other decentralisation thread- it makes no sense to have two of them?

The_Conductor

NewDubliner wrote:

What's that? I must have missed a story somewhere.

Sorry missed your reply there....

The DAF IT staff have effectively been handed an ultimatum (there are a few of them around here, feel free to correct me on any points).
Essentially- DAF IT functions in Wexford have been outsourced to Accenture already- including suppressed AP positions.
As for the Dublin staff- they have more or less been told to move to Maynooth as a prelude to a move to Portlaoise, if they wish to stay in IT at all, otherwise prepare to be reassigned to purely administrative posts (not necessarily in DAF).

Consternation is rife. You know the HEO SA position which came up in the Department of the Taoiseach, I've heard there is the highest ever number of applicants for the position- and it doesn't close until Tuesday. Almost 400 applicants for a single position- must be a record?

Now lets stop this nonsense of two threads and get Gandalf to merge them for us?

smccarrick

smccarrick wrote:

Can we get this thread merged with the other decentralisation thread- it makes no sense to have two of them?

Done

NewDubliner

smccarrick wrote:

Sorry missed your reply there....
Essentially- DAF IT functions in Wexford have been outsourced to Accenture already- including suppressed AP positions.
As for the Dublin staff- they have more or less been told to move to Maynooth as a prelude to a move to Portlaoise, if they wish to stay in IT at all, otherwise prepare to be reassigned to purely administrative posts (not necessarily in DAF).

Does this mean that DAF is using decentralisation to purge the remainder of its IT staff so that Accenture can get control of DAF IT and then run it from Dublin?

I hear the average Accenture footsoldier is charged out at 800/1000 euro/daily & the profits go to a company in the Cayman Islands?

The_Conductor

NewDubliner wrote:

Does this mean that DAF is using decentralisation to purge the remainder of its IT staff so that Accenture can get control of DAF IT and then run it from Dublin?

I hear the average Accenture footsoldier is charged out at 800/1000 euro/daily & the profits go to a company in the Cayman Islands?

Well, the SG in DAF is allegedly mightily fond of decentralisation- and the new Minister has already earmarked a few positions for rural Donegal, actions speak louder than words. To be totally honest- I very much doubt that there is a conscious effort in place to purge the IT staff and outsource them to Accenture- more a case of making the most of a situation they find themselves in. Something to keep in mind- is the unions themselves actually advocated this decentralisation- it was specifically requested by the CPSU and the PSEU in submissions to government 6 years ago. They have far more members down the country who will benefit from increased mobility and promotional prospects than they have members in Dublin. People don't seem to realise that over 2/3 of the civil service is already scattered around the country- DAF itself being a case in point- with over 80% of its staff in over 70 different locations already.

I'd reiterate my previous postings- its political, but with the compliance of the unions (perhaps with the exception of the AHCPS etc)- and the Dublin staff have very much been hung out to dry.

Was looking at the transfer requests in the backs of the CPSU and PSEU rag mags during the week- they make very interesting reading!

RicardoSmith

Sleepy wrote:

Why we should decentralise is clear: if done properly it would save taxpayers money and reduce the over-population problem in Dublin.

It's not a lack of respect for anyone, it's the modern world. If you don't like it, get a job somewhere else.

Thats true. But in the current scenerio, you'll lose all the business knowledge and skills that were in place, replace them with contractors at 3 times the cost, which we'll all foot the bill for in our taxes. Outsourcing rarey means better services. So ultimately you'll be getting less services and paying more for them.

Then of course all those offices which are decentralised will have to travel up and down to Dublin and across the country. Thus increasing costs further. Then you'll have even more people commuting all over the country where there isn't the infrastructure to cope with it. So your going to be creating traffic problems all over the country.

You would not get a private company moving to a location that cause all these problems and costs for itself. I wouldn't be able to justify it or even afford it. So comparing it to the private sector is pointless.

The_Conductor

Here are a few figures for you Sleepy-

The current scheme, as proposed, and as underway, is conservatively priced at a net cost to the exchequer of 1.3 billion Euro to 2009, and is not poised to break even until 2027. Those are conservative figures attributed to building costs alone by the OPW. Obviously they do not include infrastructural costs or human costs- costs that no-one is even trying to calculate.

S.

cdebru

NewDubliner wrote:

Until new people start work in the vacated city-centre offices......

.

thats true it wont solve the traffic problem it might hold off complete meltdown for a year or two

The_Conductor

Errrr.....
Not exactly......
Most civil servants don't drive to work btw
An interesting exercise would be to count the number of parking spaces assigned to civil servants whose posts are due to be decentralised. I think you would be quite surprised at how low a number it is in actual fact. The civil service is about the only area where there is moderately effective use of car pooling along with public transport.
E.g. Headquarters of the Department of Social and Family Affairs (Aras Mhic Dhiarmada) is attached to Busarus on the North side and has "no" parking spaces whatsoever. Headquarters of the Department of Agriculture on Kildare Street has parking spaces for fewer than 1 in 5 of the people who work in the building etc.......

cdebru

I accept what you say it would probably make little difference

except maybe to free up some bus or dart space perhaps

NewDubliner

cdebru wrote:

I accept what you say it would probably make little difference

except maybe to free up some bus or dart space perhaps

No, the traffic will probably get worse......

Some, for example, the IT staff, will not be able to find positions suitable to their experience & qualifications within the CS/PS in Dublin.

They'll have to start driving to new locations.

uncivilservant

smccarrick wrote:

You know the HEO SA position which came up in the Department of the Taoiseach, I've heard there is the highest ever number of applicants for the position- and it doesn't close until Tuesday. Almost 400 applicants for a single position- must be a record?

Let us not forget that the Dept. Taoiseach are not decentralising - nabbing this post is one of the few ways an existing IT staffer can ensure security of their chosen career path without being forced to relocate.

[OT]How unfortunate therefore that the (exceedingly specific) job specification bears all the hallmarks of having been written to 'fit' someone.... or am I just being exceedingly suspicious?[/OT]

NewDubliner

uncivilservant wrote:

.... or am I just being exceedingly suspicious?[/OT]

It wouldn't be the first time, but there's also the possibility that this is a good way for the government to get a large section of IT staff to voluntarily submit their CVs for scrutiny. Just think how useful this information would be for other purposes.....

The_Conductor

Suspicious or otherwise- I'm going for it, and I'm not in IT at the moment. They had better bloody call me to interview or else give me a very good reason as to why not- I actually managed to meet their requirements.

It was curious that there was no evaluation request attached to the application, as would be normal though? (According to Personnel in here.......)

Why they wanted the exact grade of every exam you took to degree level? The mind boggles.

NewDubliner

The Indo pol-corr re-hashes a government press-release no questions asked. Well, it is a bank holiday.

€900m decentralisation juggernaut starts rolling (Irish Independent 28 March)

THE Government's €900m decentralisation juggernaut gets rolling tomorrow when building begins at the first location where civil servants will be relocated from Dublin.

Over the coming months, up to 15 more exact locations will be identified in towns across the country as property deals are completed and construction work will then begin on the offices for the "early movers".

Junior Finance Minister Tom Parlon and Social Welfare Minister Seamus Brennan will be in Sligo tomorrow to turn the sod on a €14m office block. The building will house 100 Department of Social Welfare staff moving from Dublin, plus another 70 workers already based in rented offices.

The project will take 18 months, meaning the first decentralised civil servants will be in place before the end of 2006. The rollout of the first phase of moves will be a significant boost to the under-fire programme.

The decentralisation war-chest has been boosted by the OPW's sales of unused State properties worth €90m and another €100m expected this year from similar sell-offs of under-utilised assets.

On top of that, the Government has already allocated €90m of direct exchequer funding for the controversial programme which was announced in December 2003. The relocation of more than 10,000 public sector workers from Dublin to 52 locations across the country will cost €900m. Already, nearly 9,500 applications have been received from staff for decentralisation.

Sligo is actually the easiest of the projects to start as it involves building an extension to the existing Government offices where 430 Department of Social Welfare staff are already based, so a new site purchase is not necessary.

OPW minister Tom Parlon said last night that Sligo is a sign of what is coming down the tracks.

"We have either concluded or are about to conclude a substantial number of the property deals. Some of them are working out quite well and others are more difficult. No property transaction is straight forward," he said.

In the next couple of months, the Government plans to announce 15 specific locations where 21 departments and state agencies will be based in the first tranche of moves.

Announcements are believed to be imminent in Newbridge and Killarney, where sites are being bought from local authorities, along with Portlaoise, Drogheda and Tullamore.

Deals are also understood to be nearing completion in Mullingar, Birr, Portarlington and Carlow, where a local authority site is also being secured.

The first phase of moves by departments and state agencies set out by the Government also involves Clonakilty, Kilrush, Listowel, Newcastlewest, Limerick, Loughrea and Trim, while planning permission has already been granted in Longford.

The identification of the actual sites and the start of building work is also expected to result in an increase in the numbers of public sector workers applying for relocation.

Locations where there are large numbers of jobs involved, such as Portlaoise, Mullingar and Drogheda, will be developed on a public-private-partnership basis.

The buoyancy in the property market means sites are costing €1.5m per acre in regional towns but the OPW was quoted a price of €4m per acre in one case.

The rule-of-thumb estimated cost of relocating 100 civil servants is put at €10m, once the cost of the site, building the offices and fitting it out are included.

The_Conductor

Ok, so absolutely nothing new- in fact there is more information in the public domain than is listed here. Nice to see no mention of the 2027 break-even date..... Curious to see whether the "facts" are in actual fact correct- e.g.

The relocation of more than 10,000 public sector workers from Dublin to 52 locations across the country will cost €900m. Already, nearly 9,500 applications have been received from staff for decentralisation.

and

The building will house 100 Department of Social Welfare staff moving from Dublin


Cost is already accepted to be a conservative estimate, at best.
The 9,500 applications received from staff for decentralisation includes how many applications from civil servants in Dublin?
Also- are the 100 DSFA staff actually DSFA staff moving from Dublin, as stated, and not DSFA staff from elsewhere- or staff from other Departments?

As Lewis Carroll put it- "Curiouser, and curiouser", said Alice to the cat.