Decentralisation

TempestSabre

I wish I had 40% higher pay than my counterparts in the private sector.

The_Conductor

So- in short those evil Dublin civil servants must be made pay for this travesty......

Is it not enough that we work in buildings, some of which topped 42 degrees today and minus 5 on one day last winter- that we have to get castigated because some of us have occasional use of a parking space. We are also getting miscellaneous pieces of other buildings smashing or windows and have been evacuated with gas leaks twice in the last 6 months (admittedly this was through an accident occuring).

In the Department of Agriculture (one of the D2 departments mentioned) those who wish to drive to work are given parking for a maximum of 6 months of the year, three months on and 3 months off. Almost half of the parking spaces are taken up by disabled workers or reserved for contractors. I occasionally drive to work. When I do I take at least one other civil servant to and from work with me. On the rare occasions that I drive alone into work- its normally because I have to work late and would be too frightened to walk to Pearse Street to get the bus (I was mugged twice, once at syringe point, in the last 4 years while on my way to the bus from work in the evening/night).

I am quite baffled by the vitriol on display in the Examiner article.

pete

edit: I just realised I shouldn't comment on the parking thing because I'd probably be in breach of my "cushy" and quite likely unconstitutional employment conditions.

TempestSabre

While parking is an issue that should be addressed, I don't see why 5.85m is such a big issue when the cost of decentraliation is likely to be 1 Billion+ and no ones interested in that.

NewDubliner

This from "The Irish Independent", 18 July, I wonder if they know that if they tax civil servants, they'll also have to tax everyone else:

CIVIL servants should be taxed on parking spaces that cost the taxpayer €11m a year, consumer chief Dermott Jewell says.

The Government spends €11m per annum on providing free parking for civil servants, figures from the Office of Public Works revealed. In Dublin, the bill is over €8.5m for 3,954 spaces. The most expensive are those in Merrion Square which cost €3,182 a year.

Consumers Association of Ireland chief executive Dermott Jewell said perks such as parking places should be declared as a benefit-in-kind and taxed.

This appears on the same day in "The Examiner":

No car parking tax breaks for civil servants

YOUR editorial of July 17, as well as you front page lead story (‘Civil servants’ €11m bill for free parking’), both repeat the canard that civil servants enjoy a tax exemption on car park spaces that other taxpayers do not.

Revenue guidelines make clear that car parking facilities provided by an employer to employees are not treated as giving rise to a taxable benefit.

Civil servants receive no favoured treatment in this or any other area of the tax code. No taxpayers are charged benefit-in-kind for car spaces: the same rules apply to all.




Dave Coleman
Senior Press Officer
Revenue Commissioners
Dublin Castle

Dinarius

Schuhart wrote:

In fairness, this part is simply correct.

I have to agree also, this part is indeed correct. There can be no productivity without accountability - and there simply isn't any accountability of any consequence.

A case in point........

I know of a civil servant who for the last eight years has refused to use his card key. He waits at the main entrance for someone to enter the building and then follows them in. The card key is also his clock-in/clock-out key. Despite not using this, he still receives a cheque every month.

When he reaches his desk, he sits there doing nothing all day long - and I mean NOTHING. At exactly five o'clock, he gets up and leaves the building. No interaction takes place with his fellow workers.

Obviously, he is mentally unfit for work. Yet, nothing has been done about this. In true civil service fashion, rather than deal with the problem, every effort is made to work round it. In the private sector, he would have been dealt with. More importantly, those above him would have been sacked for allowing such a problem to fester to such a degree. Moral in what is already an overworked and understaffed department is very low. Yet the situation is allowed to continue. Truly appalling. But, that is what the absence of a profit and loss/no competition situation engenders if you don't enforce rigourous management structures.

That said, the rest of the Examiner piece is pure BS.

D.

gazzer

That article about the car park spaces was in the Herald last night also.

I was quite pleased to read that the average wage in the civil service is 42000 euro and that we all have car parking spaces. I must be working in the alternate universe version of the Civil Service.

Im in the Civil Service 14 years and i still have to reach that alusive 42000 euro salary.. as for a car park space.. I recently moved to the IT area of the Revenue Commissioners.. I applied to be put on the list for a car park space.. There is a 5 year waiting list... so it looks like i will be using the bus for a good few years yet.

Victor

Dinarius wrote:

When he reaches his desk, he sits there doing nothing all day long - and I mean NOTHING. At exactly five o'clock, he gets up and leaves the building. No interaction takes place with his fellow workers.

Is this laziness, inability, disability, politics?????

The_Conductor

Victor wrote:

Is this laziness, inability, disability, politics?????

I would hazzard disability over and above the rest......
I am personally aware of a person identical to the guy described above. He is very bad with relating to people- and totally incapable of accepting change of any kind. When his boss retired he spent several months gently rocking his chair at his desk and would start to cry if anyone talked to him. Eventually he was put on longterm sickleave and after a year was put on disability benefit. Hes still out there somewhere- I often wonder what becomes of these people.......

Re: average salary of 42k in the civil service- put it this way, EO is graduate recruitment. As a graduate joining the service you have a starting salary of Euro 29,152 (rising to a maximum of 46,253 after 15 years service). (The AO grade is being phased out, as is the SO grade). On average there are about 4 COs (with a starting salary of 20,995 and a maximum salary of 34,050 after 18 years) per EO. These two recruitment grades make up over 85% of all serving civil servants.

Of far more interest than the average salary of civil servants might be the fact that up to about 7 years ago- the salaries paid to TDs and Senators were linked to the HEO payscale (this paid a max of 56,361 after 14 years service in todays money). Our elected representatives decided to unilaterly award themselves a whole new payscale, not just a pay award, based on the Assistant Principle Payscale (max of 78,697 after 12 years) a rather nice 50% increase (over and above all the other rises in scales.....) Not bad for a job where you only sit how many days a year?

Macy

Not sure what any of this has to do with Decentralisation, bar the fact that more car parking will be provided even if everyone goes due to the lack of infrastructure in the proposed locations. And some managers in the Civil Service will still have no bottle no matter where they are based.

NewDubliner

The car parking story is not new.

Everything happens for a reason.

Maybe it's part of a black propaganda campaign to soften up the public service for a break up & exploitatation.

First decentralisation to undermine the morale of the remaining people who actually care about their jobs, now a misinformation-campaign.

Schuhart

smccarrick wrote:

On average there are about 4 COs (with a starting salary of 20,995 and a maximum salary of 34,050 after 18 years) per EO. These two recruitment grades make up over 85% of all serving civil servants.

Quick reality check - €21,000 is quite reasonable for a school leaver job, bearing in mind conditions like a defined benefits pension (I think virtually unobtainable elsewhere), security of tenure and flexible working time. The work might be boring, but so a call centre and there the work outputs will be more closely monitored.

I think we need to be clear about this. The reason decentralisation is a bad idea is because, bottom line, the tax payer will end up either paying more for the same old ****e or paying the same for even more ****e. That should not distract from the essential truth that the civil servants are well paid for what they do. But if we split central government into fifty different offices in different constituencies, it will make any effort to achieve efficiency even harder as reducing staff numbers will be a hot political potato.

I believe there's still civil servants sitting on their arses in Castlebar who've no work becuase the EU Agricultural grants have been greatly simplified. In the private sector they'd just be redundant. Instead, some have been given make-work jobs entering data for the Garda into PULSE. Any that have opted not to do this, or to do other make-work jobs in Claremorris are just lying idle. Why? Because why take the local heat of making redundancies the year before an election. Better to waste your money and my money paying staff we don't need.

Rael

With reference to the AO & SO positions being filtered out, how is the structure going to work? CO->EO->HEO?

Also where did you hear about the AO position being filtered out & does anyone know if there are going to be any EO or AO open competitions this year?

The_Conductor

Rael wrote:

With reference to the AO & SO positions being filtered out, how is the structure going to work? CO->EO->HEO?

Also where did you hear about the AO position being filtered out & does anyone know if there are going to be any EO or AO open competitions this year?

Yes- the theory is it will be CO-EO-HEO-AP etc
The previous manner of advancement by being the most senior suitable candidate is also supposed to die. Going forwards, even for internal competitions, all candidates will have to sit the same exams as external candidates, along with passing any other requirements, prior to qualifying to be interviewed by panel in a structured competency interview. External recruitment will increase at all grades and now go all the way to PO level. Seems fair enough. Presumably if someone is incompetent and incapable of doing their job, action will be taken and they will be demoted to a position they are capable of? (Rather than being placed on a merry roundabout- looking for a section who won't complain to Personnel Officers about them.....)

There was an open AO competition (confined to specific streams- either Finance or IT). About 2400 people took it. Results were out last week and they will be calling people to interview 3rd week in August for a September start. Given most departments are actively dropping fulltime equivalent staff numbers to predetermined levels- external recruitment, even to replace retirements/natural wastage is at a very low level and pre-existing panels have largely been extended (yet again).

Re: open competitions- the problem at the moment, above all others, is that the PAS Dublin list has collapsed. That is- Departments are refusing to allow Dublin based staff to transfer into other Departments who are not decentralising, because they are unable to backfill their positions as they become vacant. This is particularly acute in the aforementioned 2 streams- Finance and IT staff (hence the AO competition). The Revenue Commissioners and the Department of Finance have yet to confirm the number of vacancies they are going to fill with external staff, as a stopgap measure to continue functioning while they sit down and figure how to unjam Dublin based staff again. The Public Appointments Service reckon its a fairly large number though (no indication given of what "a fairly large number" means).

Decentralisation is in shambles. The Dublin transfer list has collapsed. Most government departments are in open revolt- with talk of the CPSU and the PSEU pulling out of national agreements (local branches are already canvassing staff on voting no to the new pay agreement).

In short, chaos is ensuing. With the July 04 embargo on numbers still in place for Dublin staff- a large number of contract staff are being rotated (I'm aware of one CO on his 5th consequtive contract- contrary to the fixed term workers act).

With responsibility for local recruitment in decentralising departments devolved to the particular departments- and a lack of Dublin based people willing to accept promotions to move, numbers in some locations are skeleton crewed while in other locations staff are under-employed. I am also personally aware of one EO in a Dublin office who has been working 40 hours a week overtime since last November, including Saturdays and Sundays- while she is earning a fortune- she is fit to fall over.

When are people going to see what this government is doing? It almost seems that they are on course to try to self-destruct........

Murt10

NewDubliner wrote:

The car parking story is not new.

Of course it's not. It's the middle of the silly season, what else can you expect. Journalists with no real stories, have to write something, so they root around and keep producing the same old chestnuts every year.

Have a look in the Irish Independent after Christmas. They will invariably run the same story about privledge days, how they are based in history on culchies having to travel home, the bad transport links at the time, and how this just wouldn't work in the private sector, and should not be allowed to continue.

The article will continue about how a (junior) journalist, (why else would he be working that day) with with nothing better to do, tried ringing each Department and was unable to speak to anybody in a senior position.

They neglect to mention, that if he was a more senior journalist, he would be able to make contact, if necessary, and that senior management who may be working, for the day that's in it, couldn't be arsed to talk to someoone who is trying to make a story out of nothing.

Most of my neighbours who work in offices in the private sector don't attend work between Christmas and the New Year. They don't call it a Privledge Day plus two days A/L. Their companies just close downfor the week..

At this stage, rather that listening to the bitching and moaning about Privledge Days, the Dept of Finance should just abolish them and give everyone two days extra days leave instead.

I'm sure that the same papers, in a couple of years, are going to run stories on the amount being paid on T&S in the Civil Service, how that wouldn't be allowed to happen in the private sector and what a waste of taxpayers money it is.

A review of the constituencies, which is nearly inevitable going to happen before the election, according to this weeks Sunday Tribune, should add some fat to the decentralisation fire. A lot of rural constituencies are overrepresented and uban ones underrepresented. It will be even more interesting if they can weed out people who have votes down the country and in Dublin.

pete

Murt10 wrote:

They will invariably run the same story about privledge days, how they are based in history on culchies having to travel home, the bad transport links at the time, and how this just wouldn't work in the private sector, and should not be allowed to continue.

In that case, I think they'd be wrong. I read somewhere that privilege days are a carry-over from colonial times. Pre-independence, Irish civil servants got the same number of days off as their British counterparts, including one or two directly relating to the monarchy (eg King / Queen's birthday).

Subsequent to the foundation of the State these reasons no longer applied, but revoking the entitlement to days off wasn't so easy.... god bless custom & practice, eh?

This may or may not be accurate, but it makes a whole lot more sense than culchies needing to travel.

Aidan1

The AO grade is being phased out

First I heard of it, and I'd be very surprised if it ever came to pass, and for a number of reasons. The idea of opening all promotions up to everyone is all very well and good, but the unions will not stand for the total demise of confined competitions, particularly for HEO, or for the impositition of a degree being required for EO*. Also, of course, as I've been repeatedly told, 'HEO work' is different, hence the different payscales.

*most new EOs have at least a degree of course, but many existing Civil Servants will not.

The_Conductor

EO is already graduate recruitment at open competition. Internal promotions to EO are not graduate recruitment- though quite a few will have degrees, yes. The idea is not that all recruitment is open to everyone- simply that a particular percentage be ringfenced for open recruitment at all grades up to and including PO. Unions agreed to this as part of the original benchmarking- its already in place. The devil was in the detail. The rule was that at least 40% of EOs were external recruits (without a commensurate minimum for internal recruits- this is changing there will also be a minimum level set for internal recruits going forward).

A lot of these are concessions that were already made. The unions gave away an awful lot for benchmarking- and are preparing to do so again for BM2......

Re: SO and AO being phased out- the current proposals are that SOs will be upgraded to EOs and AOs to APs over a set period (which would probably be a few years). This has been in discussion for almost 4 years now.

The_Conductor

With possible boundary redivisions and a further shift in Dail representation to Dublin and its surrounding suburbs- anyone think this will be recognised as a dimunition of the overzealous approach to decentralisation. The Aerlingus staff have been bought off- to try to keep North Dublin quiet- West Dublin, who managed to return no FF or PD candidates at the local elections- looks like it could be a further blood bath at the General Elections (especially if it gets another seat). Brian Lenihan Jnr. looks quite shakey. Any odds on some scheme to buy off the voters in West Dublin in an attempt at damage control?

Dinarius

My guess is that it will be sold as a partial success with Marine being in Clonakilty by next April and then something like a, "Re-elect us and we'll finish the job." line being spun.

The total state of paralysis that has resulted due to willing participants being unable to transfer to their to-be-decentralised departments, since the gaps they leave in their existing departments are not being filled, is killing this hair-brained scheme stone dead. But, it is indicative of the total lack of any forethought. This really was conceived on the back of an envelope in Buswell's bar, as someone wrote a while back.

If there is a God in heaven, Parlon will lose his seat.

D.

NewDubliner

Parlon is just the front/man, fall/guy. He's already started to look at other ways to save his seat.

There are some very cynical people pushing the scheme. The main trick is to make the public forget that it's going to cost them a lot of money. After that, it's plain sailing. It can be sold as 'civil-service reform' & a way of clearing out old-fashioned staff (experienced, trained) to make way for young blood (yellow pack, out-sourced).

greenchilli

I work for a state agency that's been downsizing for a while. In recent times they've taken to outsourcing some of its core activities rather than take on new staff. The schmucks in the town my employers are supposed to decentralize to aren't going to see the colour of the number of jobs they think they're going to see.

NewDubliner

From the Irish Independent, no mention in O'Cuiv's propaganda of the cost of expertese loss & retraining. But, the Indo does recognise the possibility.

Also, no mention of how many of the volunteers were working in Dublin previously, nor what has happened to the displaced workers.

TWO-THIRDS of civil servants decentralised to the West with the Department of Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs are from different government departments.

A total of 64 staff are to move to Tubbercurry, Co Sligo, in August. Of these 40 opted to make the move from different departments.

Yesterday Minister Eamon O Cuiv said the decentralisation is well under way with 37 staff already gone to the new advance offices where they will work pending construction of a new headquarters at Knock Airport.

Four sections of the department and parts of two others have now relocated to Tubbercurry, with two further sections due to relocate there on August 14.

Most of the staff now in Tubbercurry transferred from other departments in Dublin over the past seven months and many have west of Ireland connections.

Mr O Cuiv said so many extra people living and working in the west will have important benefits socially and economically for the area.

He told staff he was highly impressed by their enthusiasm for their new jobs and new location.

"Decentralisation works for the communities we serve," he said.

Diaspora

Eamon O'Cuiv wrote:

Decentralisation works for the communities we serve

That just about sums up Decentralisation in one; the destruction of effective National Government and riding roughshod directly over those who have put a platform under the state for years and decades in many cases is entirely irrelevant because certain retailers based in the particular communities in marginal constituencies selected by the Mount St backroom team will see some minor benefits such as in this case 64 pay checks as well as the local farmers getting to sell 64 sites for McMansions.

Fair play to you New Jackeen keep this scam in the spotlight

holly_johnson

smccarrick wrote:

West Dublin, who managed to return no FF or PD candidates at the local elections- looks like it could be a further blood bath at the General Elections (especially if it gets another seat). Brian Lenihan Jnr. looks quite shakey. Any odds on some scheme to buy off the voters in West Dublin in an attempt at damage control?

Off topic I know but:
haha bring it on; they can try and buy me off all they like with schemes in my area, but there's no way in hell Lenihan will be getting my vote. I've also swung my whole family (always staunch FFers, especially Lenihan) to tell him to take a jump at the next election! My Dad has a great speech ready and waiting for him all about how he has ****ed up his daughters career and others like her. Great stuff.
Joe Higgins for No1 tbh, just to keep the Dail honest.

Victor

"A total of 64 staff are to move .... Mr O Cuiv said so many extra people living and working in the west" - lol

NewDubliner

Victor wrote:

"A total of 64 staff are to move .... Mr O Cuiv said so many extra people living and working in the west" - lol

How many were brought to Dublin (from offices outside Dublin) for training so that they could take the jobs of Dublin people?

NewDubliner

This from the 'Sunday Business Post', July 23rd.

It seems to be a DoF inspired proaganda piece, although it does contain muted criticism from the PSEU.

Benefits - a few staff have shortened commutes. 'Delicious Cafe' and Williams Eatery' looking forward to new customers. An already booming town gets a new office block. Oh, and 'Curves Fitness is excited about deceantralisation.

The cost: Some staff have longer commutes, one new office building, 90% staff retrained, 17 new staff hired, 10 staff promoted.

The point made about this being a turnaround in fairness for non-Dublin staff seeking promotion is defective. John Leonard is speaking as if non-Dublin Ireland was just one place.

The reception area of the new Department of Finance offices in Tullamore is being vacuumed as removal workers haul boxes and computers across the floor to the elevators.

The reception area of the new Department of Finance offices in Tullamore is being vacuumed as removal workers haul boxes and computers across the floor to the elevators.

The temperature outside is hitting 27 degrees, but inside the air-conditioned building there is an air of quiet industry.

Plans for the arrival tomorrow of 115 civil servants from Dublin to the heart of Minister for Finance Brian Cowen’s constituency are being executed with something akin to military precision.

This is the calm before the storm, according to John Leonard, a principal officer in charge of the physical relocation of the finance directorate.



Leonard outlined the schedule for this weekend - staff arriving with the contents of their desks and files packed up in boxes - as he consulted an elaborate map of the three-storey building.

‘‘Everything is being collected, filed and packed away as we speak,” said Leonard, pointing to bright orange removal boxes that line the reception area. ‘‘Most of these will be cleared on Saturday and Sunday and we will have an office that’s up and running on Monday.”

It will be business as usual tomorrow for the paymaster general’s office, the exchequer section, accounts and salaries - except business will run from the midlands capital instead of Dublin for the department division.

‘‘It has to be business as usual, otherwise staff salaries and pensions won’t get paid and then we’ll all be dead,” joked Leonard. ‘‘We’ve tested and re-tested it. We haven’t got the slightest concern about it not working.”

Some civil servants have bought new homes in the Tullamore area. Others will commute from Dublin either indefinitely or while they search for property. Those who already live in the area will be delighted just to avoid the early morning daily commute to Dublin.

Finance officials whose offices once overlooked Merrion Square and Nassau Street will now have views of acres of green countryside alongside the Central Business Park in Tullamore.

Next Friday, staff from the European Development Fund (ERDF) auditors’ section will follow their colleagues to Tullamore and over the August bank holiday weekend, officials from the Central Executive Unit which oversees National Development Funding will also relocate.

This will complete the decentralisation of up to 127 civil servants to Tullamore.

Mary Moran, an assistant principal officer, used to work in an office at the Setanta Centre on Nassau Street, which overlooked the Trinity College sports ground.

‘‘I was told I had the best view in the building, but I had my back to it all the time so I didn’t see much of the cricket matches,” she said.

But of more concern to her now than the views from the office is that her commuting time will be cut by about five hours a day.

Moran is one of the many civil servants who travel daily from their midlands homes to Dublin by train, leaving Portarlington at 6.30am to take the train from Tullamore.

‘‘It’s like a family on the train, with the same people travelling into Dublin from Portlaoise and home again that evening,” said Moran.

‘‘I see a completely different life for myself from now on. I can take up hobbies like golf in the time that I will save travelling.”

It used to be said that civil servants all came from the country, having been encouraged by the nuns and Christian Brothers to opt for a respectable, pensionable government job.

If that is true, then the decentralisation programme is more a homecoming for the ‘‘culchies’’ than an extensive relocation programme for civil servants born and bred in Dublin.

A survey by the Civil and Public Service Union (CPSU) found that the bulk of civil servants seeking a transfer to new locations were not based in the capital but previously-decentralised locations.

Civil servants from the country tend to take decentralised jobs to be closer to their homes, so it may be reasonable to assume that many of the 127 civil servants transferring to Tullamore are from the midlands.

Higher executive officer Benny Molloy, originally from Birr, doubled the price of his end-of-terrace, two-bedroom house in Drimnagh in four years, and has just bought a four-bedroom detached house on a quarter of an acre outside Tullamore.

His wife transferred to the Department of Finance from the Department of Agriculture to work in Tullamore. ‘‘The mortgage was slightly higher, but it was nothing we couldn’t afford given what you’re getting,” he said.

Businesses in the region are also looking forward to an economic boost from more than 100 well-paid civil servants in the town.

Anne Williams, who opened the Delicious Cafe just 12 weeks ago, believes that the spin-offs for the hotel and catering industry, as well as the housing market, will be significant.

Finance officials lunching in Williams’ upmarket eatery can enjoy wi-fi, Italian opera and an extensive wine list - a far cry from the carvery on offer in most Dublin pubs.

Curves Fitness franchise owner Kathleen Regan is also excited about decentralisation.

‘‘A lot of this is because of Brian Cowen. Any town that has a minister does well - look at how well Castlebar did with Pee Flynn.

‘‘You can see a real buzz around Tullamore over the last two years, with EU ministers coming here for their European conference,” said Regan.

But the decision to relocate down the country is proving difficult for Dublin-based civil servants whose family and friends may still be in the capital.

Up to 90 per cent of the officials in the Department of Finance declined to move to Tullamore with their jobs. Only 26 of those already working in the department agreed to relocate with the programme.

A further 17 people were recruited through the Public Appointments Service and the remaining officials were transferred to the department from elsewhere in the civil service.

At least ten civil servants were promoted as part of the relocation process.

The costs to the taxpayer of promotions, hiring new recruits to plug holes and finding work for staff refusing to move is being left for another day.

The Association of Higher Civil and Public Service estimates that the cost of finding work for surplus staff arising from the full decentralisation programme will be as much as €50 million a year for every 1,000 surplus staff.

Tom Geraghty, assistant general secretary of the Public Services Employees Union (PSEU) representing middle-ranking officials, said that surplus staff in finance had already transferred to other departments.

The problem of surplus staff will recur towards the end of the decentralisation process ‘‘when you don’t have enough posts in Dublin to accommodate the staff who are remaining,” he said.

Much consideration is being given to the plight of Dublin-based officials, even though civil servants from the country have always transferred willingly if they want promotion, according to John Leonard.

Originally from Tuam, Leonard - who joined the Revenue Commissioners when he was 17 - said there had been no choice for him but to go to Dublin if he wanted promotion in his career.

‘‘That’s what people from the country have been doing for years,” he said. ‘‘Every time I took promotion, I had to head to Dublin. The higher up I went, the fewer posts there were to get back to down the country.”

Aspiring civil servants agreed to move to Dublin for promotion but later tried to find a way back to their own area through government decentralisation programmes.

Leonard was first transferred to Tullamore in 1980, then to Rosslare, and most recently back to Dublin, as his career progressed. But he continued to live in Tullamore, even after his promotion to Dublin, since his wife and children had settled there.

He opted to transfer to finance as a principal officer in anticipation of relocating to Tullamore.

‘‘Decentralisation is more about doing this in reverse. Obviously it doesn’t suit everybody, but it certainly suits me,” he said.

‘‘This morning, I arrived at the office at a quarter to nine.

“I had got up an hour later than usual and was able to get in a four-and-a-half mile walk before work. Even if I was to arrive home this evening at half past seven, I could also play nine holes of golf. This transforms my life.”

Certainly, many of the middle-grade members of the Public Services Employees Union (PSEU), based in decentralised regions, are backing the policy, according to Geraghty.

The PSEU has up to 3,000 members outside the Dublin area and most of them see significant promotional benefits from the increased number of jobs coming into the provinces.

Almost half of the 5,500 union members being decentralised view it as ‘‘the best thing since sliced bread’’, said Geraghty.

‘‘But for the rest of them, it’s the worst thing that could happen.”

Diaspora

Curves Fitness franchise owner Kathleen Regan is also excited about decentralisation.

‘‘A lot of this is because of Brian Cowen. Any town that has a minister does well - look at how well Castlebar did with Pee Flynn.

Cowen is probably the least guilty of the non-urban based cabinet in that regard and I wonder what his reaction will be in being compared to Pee Flynn?

What did Michael Martin do for Cork?

Almost half of the 5,500 union members being decentralised view it as ‘‘the best thing since sliced bread’’, said Geraghty

That perception appears to contradict most surveys done to date and in particular the numbers of specialists who are unable to transfer departments; I'd like to see an actual survey which asked what the views would be on decentralisation if promotional oportunities were based solely on merit.

pete

Diaspora wrote:

That perception appears to contradict most surveys done to date

That may be so, but it would be nice if Tom and boys at PSEU HQ bothered their holes to actually ask their membership first before spouting guff like this on our behalf, since despite multiple requests they have failed to carry out any form of survey whatsoever.

Schuhart

Higher executive officer Benny Molloy, originally from Birr, doubled the price of his end-of-terrace, two-bedroom house in Drimnagh in four years, and has just bought a four-bedroom detached house on a quarter of an acre outside Tullamore.

So, just in case we thought the National Spatial Strategy had any residual meaning, this example should confirm that the State is now committed to a policy of encouraging people out of high density housing and into one-off housing in the countryside. They'll even spend whatever it costs to send their job down after them.

Diaspora

Anecdotal evidence suggests that local micro markets in decentralisation host towns and villages priced this in by mid 2004 and that the CC's are getting fleeced.

On a positive note what would the forum think about the Department of the Marine moving to Haulbowline to be beside the National Marine College and Naval Base given its links to public transport and proximity to Cork Airport.

With caveats that a core office would be retained in D2 for the mandarins whilst at inter-departmental meetings or for specialists who choose to remain and travel as and when to Cork for internal meetings.

The posibility of setting up a cluster of excellence exists there in a way that it does not in Virginia.

utopian

Diaspora wrote:

On a positive note what would the forum think about the Department of the Marine moving to Haulbowline to be beside the National Marine College and Naval Base given its links to public transport and proximity to Cork Airport.

Department of the Marine? :rolleyes:

Perhaps the Department of Communications, Marine and Natural Resources should move to Navan so as to be near Tara Mines? Or to Crown Alley so as to be near the exchange?

Maybe we could play seagull noises, or set up a resalination plant, so that the staff can adapt to life away from the sea-breezes of Leeson Street?

One could almost feel sorry for the politicians. They get criticised for trying to drop Marine from the name of the Department, and then mocked for moving the "Department of the Marine" inland.

Dinarius

Diaspora wrote:

The posibility of setting up a cluster of excellence exists there in a way that it does not in Virginia.

One could almost feel sorry for the politicians. They get criticised for trying to drop Marine from the name of the Department, and then mocked for moving the "Department of the Marine" inland.

Ahem...........!

Not sure where you two have been, but Marine is not moving to Virginia and it is staying on the coast.

It's moving to Clonakilty.

D.

Diaspora

Read my post and the caveats contained within that limit the move to the relevant parts.

It would make a lot of sense to locate a department beside a dedicated educational institute which comprises a large proportion of the department or in case you had forgotten we are an Island and the potential for the marine industry is massive but only if there is innovation which is not currently happening.

To take one example all of the marine tech and marine equipment for the Corrib gas exploration was supplied from Scotland because the skills were simply not available here because of a lack of training.

Moving the department to a town with no expertise in any of the areas such as forrestry telecoms or marine is the current plan and no amount of smart quips about sea gulls will change the decsion unless a sound rationale is built.

Dinarius

Diaspora wrote:

Read my post and the caveats contained within that limit

I read your post and you do have a point.

Simply, for those coming to the thread for the first time, Virginia has zip to do with Marine now, and I didn't want to leave the impression that it does.

D. ;-)

utopian

Dinarius wrote:

Ahem...........!

Not sure where you two have been, but Marine is not moving to Virginia and it is staying on the coast.

It's moving to Clonakilty.

D.

You are so right. Another of my Scuds lands in the desert...

NewDubliner

Impact Press Release: Parlon is MIA.

IMPACT may withdraw co-operation with decentralisation after Minister reneges on commitments to OPW staff
Date: Friday 18 August, 2006

News Summary:
IMPACT trade union has called a special meeting of its Decentralisation Sub-Committee to discuss a possible withdrawal of co-operation from the Government’s decentralisation programme. It says this is because Minister Tom Parlon has reneged on commitments about job and career security given to Office of Public Works (OPW) staff at a meeting in May. The special meeting, involving IMPACT branches affected by decentralisation, takes place on Thursday 7th September.

News Content:

A withdrawal of co-operation would be a further serious blow to the discredited programme because IMPACT is the sole representative of specialist civil servants, on whom many civil service departments depend.

The union says that, during the 30th May meeting, Minister Parlon agreed that specialist staff in the OPW who chose not to relocate to Trim would continue to do their existing work or be given other suitable work within the OPW. He also said there would be no “parallel recruitment” – or duplicate recruitment of new staff to do the work of those who chose to stay in Dublin. But in a follow-up letter Mr Parlon made no reference to these commitments, instead saying that posts outside the OPW would be provided for staff that chose not to move. After persistent attempts to clarify the position over the summer, IMPACT says it is now clear that the Minister doesn’t intend to meet the commitment he gave.

IMPACT national secretary Louise O’Donnell said this was an important indication of how the Government intended to deal with specialist civil servants in the decentralisation programme. “This is the first test of the Government’s claim that decentralisation is voluntary and won’t disadvantage staff. Mr Parlon’s commitment was recognition that OPW specialists like architects and engineers can’t simply be moved to other departments where similar jobs don’t exist without fundamental harm to their careers. He has now reneged on that commitment.”

IMPACT has always said that decentralisation is especially difficult in organisations that depend heavily on specialist staff because, if they chose to stay in Dublin, they cannot simply interchange with other civil servants. Only about 15% of specialist staff have opted to relocate under the programme.

Ms O’Donnell says the Government’s unwillingness to address specialist staff concerns is fuelling frustration among IMPACT members. “Specialists see their colleagues in administrative grades making progress on lots of issues with the Department of Finance actively working to iron out problems. Yet real threats to their jobs and careers have yet to be dealt with and, when progress is made, it is quickly withdrawn. With some organisations due to move within months, this has put the union and its members in an impossible position. It’s becoming increasingly unrealistic to expect staff to co-operate with a programme that could leave them without careers or even useful work,” she said.

The union also says its concerns for non-Dublin staff, who are earmarked to relocate under the programme, have yet to be dealt with, and that there is huge uncertainty over the building programme linked to decentralisation.

IMPACT represents over 1,200 civil servants and state agency staff earmarked for relocation. All of them are specialist staff including engineers, architects, marine geologists, petroleum specialists, valuers, accountants, health and safety inspectors, cartographers, airworthiness professionals, legal specialists, policy experts, heritage experts, and a wide range of other professionals and technical grades.

In May, IMPACT published proposals, in a policy document called Why Decentralisation Isn’t Working, which it said could sort out the Government’s decentralisation debacle.

pete

NewDubliner wrote:

Parlon is MIA.

he's baaaack

Sunday Indo wrote:

THE "overdevelopment" of greater Dublin is not good for Ireland according to the 'Minister for Decentralisation' Tom Parlon. Despite problems with the time scale of the plan, he is pressing ahead with a huge land and building purchase programme.

Mr Parlon told the Sunday Independent that he is being approached "every day" by civil servants who are anxious to move out of Dublin. "For many of them it offers a life changing opportunity - I am committed to giving them that opportunity" he said.

Mr Parlon said that the there have been huge changes in Ireland in the last 20 years, but they have not benefited all of the people.

The expansion of the capital "denies people from the regions the opportunity to live and work in their own localities and detracts from the quality of life of people who live in Dublin" he said.

Although decentralisation plans are still bogged down in difficulties with civil service unions, the Office of Public Works (OPW) has confirmed that up to last week "negotiations have been completed or significantly advanced" to acquire property in 34 different locations around the country.

Five sites owned by the OPW have been acquired for new departments, six have been purchased from localauthorities, another six have been purchased from private landowners and a variety of others are under negotiation.

"Financial success hasnot benefited the country equally," Mr Parlon toldthe Sunday Independent last week.

"I have reiterated time and again that decentralisation, in addition to improving the quality of life for those public servants that choose to decentralise, will also encourage investment and improve infrastructure in the locationsthat are earmarked for decentralisation.

NewDubliner

From the 'Meath Chronicle':

Fianna Fail’s Colr Jimmy Fegan said this week that he did not think that the problems with Impact would hold up the decentralisation move to Trim.

“I think what we are looking at is the union seeking compensation for the relocation to Trim,” he said.

The Cllr is following the Parlon line that the unions are blocking their wonderful plan.

You'd wonder if Cllr Fegan could comprehend the notion that sometimes, 'no' simply means 'no'.

holly_johnson

NewDubliner wrote:

From the 'Meath Chronicle':


The Cllr is following the Parlon line that the unions are blocking their wonderful plan.

You'd wonder if Cllr Fegan could comprehend the notion that sometimes, 'no' simply means 'no'.

It's amazing how blinkered these people can be... like you said no means no.
How can he think otherwise?

The_Conductor

holly_johnson wrote:

It's amazing how blinkered these people can be... like you said no means no.
How can he think otherwise?

Simple- he is trotting out the party line.
The election is coming up- they made a number of promises to the electorate that they are unable to deliver on, and they need a scapegoat. Lets blame the unions.

holly_johnson

Yes, but are people really that naive? Would they be so mis-informed as to believe that line?
I hope not.

TempestSabre

Unions have a terrible public image for the majoiry of people. I would be easy to blame then. They are trying to pin the blame for the driving test back log on them too.

The_Conductor

holly_johnson wrote:

Yes, but are people really that naive? Would they be so mis-informed as to believe that line?
I hope not.

In short- yes. They are naive as hell, very open to misinformation and quite a few are more than willing to accept statements from their local TDs or Councillors as gospel truth. I'm highly cynical- and very distrusting of both politicians and the electorate at large. Why do you think parochial politics works so well in this country (to the utter and total detriment of the country as a whole.....)

holly_johnson

Shocking stuff.
I must say, coming from a politically aware family that I would never accept statements as 'gospel truth'. If anything I am inclined to be like you, and instantly look to see what the real story is behind the statement.
Politicians don't like knocking on my door due to the grilling they get. Needless to say since this farcical 'plan' was announced, the grilling temperature has risen a few degrees

NewDubliner

holly_johnson wrote:

Shocking stuff.
I must say, coming from a politically aware family that I would never accept statements as 'gospel truth'.

I think one good thing that has been produced by this scam is that it's woken up a lot of people to the way politicians mislead & lie to the public & how 'smoke and mirrors' arguments are used to bilk the taxpayer out of billions of euro under the pretense of doing something worthy.

pete

RTE News wrote:

The IMPACT trade union is to ballot its members for industrial action over decentralisation because it says the Government has failed to deliver on assurances that their jobs, working conditions and careers would be protected.

The ballot is expected to lead to a phased withdrawal of cooperation with the decentralisation programme.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2006/0907/decentralisation.html

Not really surprising.... I just can't believe it took this long.

Anyone seen the PSEU?

Hotblack Desiato

The PSEU will not strike on this issue no matter what.

In fact it's impossible to imagine them striking on any issue, no matter what. They are easily the most useless public sector union, but they're the only one I'm legally allowed join

TempestSabre

A few PSEU members in our office left it for that reason.