Scammed on Ebay

clearz

Hi

As you can see by the title I have become yet another victum of Internet fraud. On the 11th May I purchased a mobile phone on ebay from this guy in England for 310 euro. I paid him using my Mastercard through Paypal. I filed the complaint with paypal two weeks later who afer 15 days decided that I was right and rewarded the amount in your mans account (15 euro) . Now that is no subsitute for 310. I rang the AIB who issued my Credit Card to me and they told me that after 60 days if I write to the chargeback department they will be able to reward my the 310 back in full. I was wondering is this true and who pays the money. Is it paypal and should I have any hastle getting it. Does anybody have any expierence with this. This was my first time making an online purchase and I am absoutly furious.

Thanks
John.

radiospan

Sorry to hear that, John. I was thinking of buying a phone from England myself on eBay just a few days ago.

What was the seller's name?

I've never bought anything off eBay myself, so I can't give you any advice on the chargeback dept.

clearz

His name was spikie_steve. The guy had sold a car before so I tought he had to be ok. I will never use an online auction again. Its far to easy to get scammed. You are giving money to somebody you never met in your life in good faith that they will send you the goods. Ebay offers protection upto 115 Sterling and then CHARGE YOU £15 processing fee. That way you only can get a maximum of £105 back. If I were to go about it this way I would still be down around 150 euros. I just hope the bank will get my money back. My advice to anybody using Ebay to only buy stuff from power sellers who have a very high score. You just cant trust anybody. Also just for curiosty can sombody in Ireland bring somone in England to court for this kind of online fraud.

l3rian

sorry to hear about that, but...


he sold a car? thats not in his feedback


his feedback was balls, and should have potential ripper stamped on it

clearz

Whats this

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=9858&item=2472574420

l3rian

ah im getting my buyer and seller mixed up

but that guy chris_shaw1984 (1) has only one feedback, so imo the sale was a fake, set up by spikie_steve (8) using a new nick

clearz

Yea your right I just noticed that there. It was probably himself with another account. But I wasent looking that deep at first. I have mates that have been using ebay for a while without any hastle.

l3rian

hopefully AIB will reward you the 310 in full

i would chalk this one up to experience... or you could try and track this pathetic creature down

i know paypal would have his cc info, which would have his address attached, you could report him to trading standards in the uk

daveg

Firstly sorry to hear about you getting ripped off clearz. I have used ebay on many occasions in the past and I cannot recall any problems bacause I would never buy from anyone without good feedback (at least 100+).

Your question about who pays for AIB's refunding you the money - we all do. There was a program on this (primetime afair). AIB and other banks are refunding scammed credit cards accross the board and are claiming the money back through hiked interest rates on c.c. Not that I'm saying you shouldnt claim your dough back - you should - but this is where it is paid from.

milltown

Follow the procedure and Mastercard will get you your money back. I had a similar experience a few years back where the guy actually sent me a scan of the receipt for postage (I do believe he sent it) but it never arrived. I filled in a form that MC sent out and a week or two later the amount was credited back to my account.

Of all the shopping done on the net the only people who make money out of EVERY transaction are the credit card companies. They absolutely have to instill confidence in buying online by having these safety nets. The more shopping we do in places where cash is out of the question, the happier and richer the CC companies will be.

The CC co. will pay you and take the money back from Paypal, then Paypal will have to recover their money from spikie steve.

koneko

Daveg is right, I never buy anything who has less than 100 feedback, unless it's something really cheap.

Spikie_steve has 10 feedback, and 1 of them is negative. Don't like those odds. Two of those feedback are from "chris_shaw1984" who sounds like a fake account.

AIB will give you your money back, and they'll take it from Paypal. Paypal will throw a hissy fit most likely and send you angry mails (ignore them).

I wouldn't worry too much though. Great thing about Europe is you have plenty of avenues to go to get your money back. People in the US are generally screwed once they get ripped off, but we have credit card protection

parsi

Originally posted by koneko
Daveg is right, I never buy anything who has less than 100 feedback, unless it's something really cheap.

That's all well and good but the only way to get to 100+ feedback is through buying/selling. I've recently started selling stuff on eBay (starting with a 10 rating) and if everyone took that attitude I'd sell nothing (though at the prices some things are going at that mightn't be a bad idea :-))

Though I should add my things are just from clearing out the house - DVDs, models, etc so their price is low enough.. I would agree that high value items shouldn'e be bought from "newbies" but we all have to start off somewhere...

neokenzo

100+ feedbacks are fine but I tend to check whether the feedback are from buying stuff or selling stuff. If most of them from buying stuff, I'd stay away. I buy from ebay a lot and only had 1 problem. Its unfortunate that you got scammed but you shouldnt worry about getting your money back.

Tenshot

I've bought plenty of stuff on eBay over the past year, and not a single problem so far (touch wood). Almost everything was second-hand, which seems to be a lot less risky - someone is unlikely to go to the trouble of taking pictures etc. of old equipment if they're just planning to scam people.

One sale so far (to a US buyer); he paid within 20 minutes of me sending him a final total - very trusting! The item shipped 12 hours later, so we were both happy :-) My feedback rating was only 5 at the time.

Because I'm in Ireland, postage is usually a bit more than the seller expected. Several sellers have gone to the post office to get a price, and just sent the package anyway since they're there, on the (correct) assumption that I'll be happy to pay up. This is very trusting indeed - again, rip-off buyers are unlikely to be bidding on old second-hand routers and the like.

I had one near-miss on a Plasma screen; I bid £300, and got outbid about two days later. Afterwards, discovered tiny small print saying it was only selling info about where to buy the screen cheap, not the screen itself. eBay cancelled the auction before it completed, so no harm done (and I got an email from a good samaritan pointing out the same thing) but it did open my eyes a bit!

dudara

I just bought a mobile on ebay for ~E135 and received it a few days ago. This was my first major purchase on ebay, even though I've bought lots of lesser items. I was praying as I paid that this guy was on the level, even though his feedback was good.

I'm thinking of starting to sell a few things, as I have DVDs etc cluttering up the place. How have peoples experiences of selling on ebay been?

nahdoic

well that sucks

but if someone only has feedback from 6 buyers - and has only been active for about 2 weeks and one of that feedback consists of

Item did not arrive, no proof of postage given, no help offered, no refund
Reply by spikie_steve: Item was sent, no proof of postage reqested, I tried to help, Sent 1st Class.

Then don't go and give that guy E310!

You'll get your money back from the credit card company so that is sound. You might want to contact paypal and let them know it would be easier for them to refund you the full amount now as you are just going to get the chargeback anyway.

This looks very clearly covered by their buyer protection in paypal and they should refund you the full amount immediately. The fact this guy had withdrawn most of his funds was their fault not yours.

https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_pbp-info-outside

There are great bargains online, but a lot of scam artists are out there as well but it is pretty easy to steer clear of the scams. You just need to be cautious. I wouldn't rule out buying online again - just be more careful next time.

[edit]nevermind on closer inspection it looks like the seller has to sign up for buyer protection for this to work and I'd guess this seller hasn't.[/edit]

Ardent

Tenshot:

I've never bought anything from eBay but was thinking of giving it a shot soon, need a few items for a new apt. How does a first time user go about using the service, making sure everything is in place to avoid getting scammed, etc?

Any info from an experienced buyer/seller appreciated!

nahdoic

It's very easy to use ebay safely - the important thing is to learn about the seller before giving them your hard earned money. I've bought loads of things from ebay from all around the world with no problems whatsoever.

A quick google brought this up.

1) The first, and most important, rule of thumb is to learn about the seller before you make a purchase. You might ask yourself, how do I do that? Well, the best way to do this is to check their feedback. Look for how high their feedback score is and what percentage of their score is positive. By reading the comments left by the seller's previous trading transactions, you will be able to see what they had to say about their experience with the seller or the buyer. This will give you a feeling of confidence when it's your time.

2) Should you have questions about a particular item, click on the "Ask Seller a Question" link to send an email to the seller with your question. If you get a really quick response, that is an indication that the seller is on top of things. If your email goes ignored....you should wonder why? You would not want to send that person your money, and perhaps not hear from them, or not receive the item you purchased.

As a rule of thumb, most sellers want you to be comfortable with your purchase decision, and are extremely happy to answer your questions. You should not bid on the item until you are satisfied with the answer you have received from the seller.

3) After you have won the item, make sure that you are paying with confidence. On eBay, PayPal is the safest, fastest, and easiest way to pay for your purchase. You can pay securely with a credit card or e-check, and still be covered under their payment protection policy.

4) To avoid being deceived by fraudulent escrow services, use www.escrow.com, eBay's approved escrow service. Escrow is available for any purchase, but typically is used for purchases of $500 or more. I advise you to use caution when considering escrow.

5) I strongly discourage using instant cash transfer services such as MoneyGram or Western Union. A bidder should be especially cautious if one or both of these are the only payment methods accepted by the seller. Never bid on listings where the seller only accepts cash sent wrapped securely. I would never advise sending cash through the mail for any purchase you make. Although most eBayers are honest, the dishonest ones are also selling on eBay.

The one thing to watch out for is the VAT that customs may or may not slap onto the products you buy - some deals don't work out that great after you add delivery charges and vat on top. Sometimes it's just simplier and better to buy at home.

parsi

Originally posted by dudara
I just bought a mobile on ebay for ~E135 and received it a few days ago. This was my first major purchase on ebay, even though I've bought lots of lesser items. I was praying as I paid that this guy was on the level, even though his feedback was good.

I'm thinking of starting to sell a few things, as I have DVDs etc cluttering up the place. How have peoples experiences of selling on ebay been?

I just started selling a few weeks ago - mainly things that were cluttering up the house.. my experiences were positive - people usually pay quickly. I only take Paypal - you pay them charges _but_ there's no waiting for cheques or cashing drafts or whatever - they pay paypal and you gt the money immediately. Only prob is getting it out but I intend to let old gadgets pay for new ones that I'll buy on eBay.

Check out your postage - I charged too little for DVDs - its eur2.50 to the UK and I was charging £1 . Also don't start too low - if the item is esoteric you might only get one bid and that will be from someone willing to pay more in the first place !

Deliver promptly - I acknowledge winners and tell them approx when I will ship and email them after shipping. Package well - make an effort - print out labels or write very clearly - don't allow scope for items getting lost through bad packing or bad writing. Keep an eye on mail for queries etc.

eBay isn't cheap - lsiting fees and paypal take a chunk but if its for clearing clutter there's no better place (Boards people only take gadgets !!!) ..

Tenshot

Ardent, plenty of good advice there, to which I can add only a few things.

Buying
- I like sellers who have been on eBay for a while, even if they only have a few transactions on their feedback. Someone registered in 2002 with four transactions spread across that period, is likely legitimate (a scammer would long since have switched to a different account to get rid of bad feedback).

- For the second-hand stuff I've bought, I stay away from incomplete items (missing bits), and items with advertised problems. Keeps life simpler, even though they often sell for a lot less than the items in better condition. I don't need the hassle.

- Most UK auctions say they will ship to UK only. This used to put me off, but in practise, I find sellers are happy to ship to Ireland too as long as you don't mind paying extra shipping. It's usually about 30-50% more, at least for Royal Mail. Mailing sellers in advance about this is a good excuse to make contact and see how responsive they are.

- Once I win an item, I try to pay as quickly as possible. Life is much easier if the seller accepts Paypal. Often, they'll charge a 3.5% premium (passing on what Paypal charge them), though not everyone does this. It's not too unfair - the seller is paying a similar amount in listing fees to eBay. Anyway, it's a small price to pay for the convenience of instant payment.

- For one or two UK items, I've posted over a Sterling draft from the post office, and it introduces an element of uncertainty and delay that I can do without. If the draft fails to arrive, it's a big pain to get it refunded - and if the receiver cashed it and lied, it will be a while before you even find out about it. (No such problems so far, thank goodness.)

- If I come across an interesting item with no bids and a low start price, I often put in the requested price but no more. That way, I get an email if someone outbids me, which shows there is interest in the item. Other than that, I try not to bid too early in an auction - it only drives the price up.

- I'm terrible at remembering when auctions end, so I set calendar reminders in Outlook to let me know an hour or two beforehand. Then I can get ready to do some last minute bids (also known as "sniping"). It's amazing how much activity you can get in the last few minutes of an auction. I usually try and pitch around Stg10 above the apparent maximum price for a last minute bid, so that any other last minute bids have to work a bit harder to beat me (of course if everyone does that, it backfires a bit...)

- Probably a bit cheesy, but I usually add about 50 pence to my maximum bid, so that if someone bids (say) €55, my €55.50 will beat them even though it was placed later. Usually doesn't change things, but on one or two items it's helped secure the win for me.

- I've had a couple of off-eBay transactions. eBay strongly recommend against this (not surprisingly, since they don't make any money from it). In one case, I mailed someone who had cancelled an auction and ended up buying the item privately for the starting price. In another, I was the underbidder and the seller contacted me to see if I was interested in buying a second item at price I'd bid. Both worked out fine.

Selling
For the one item I sold (some NTSC video equipment) I went to a fair bit of trouble to do up a professional looking description with a decent photo, along with links to the manufacturer's website etc. I also paid a bit extra to include a sub-description (makes the auction stand out in searches), and listed it in two separate categories. Total listing cost ended up about $6, more than I expected (opening auction price was $40).

After six days, not a single bid; a bit depressing after all the work I'd put in. However, eBay now shows the seller how many people are watching an item, so I could see there was a fair bit of interest - about 15 watchers. Sure enough, on the last day, it all went crazy and there were about 20 bids, including four in the last 60 seconds. Finally sold for $120, which was not bad considering I had just been planning to dump it. (Original price was $450 four years earlier, but it turned out to be unsuitable for use in Ireland... long story.)

I priced shipping at $35 and mentioned this clearly in the description. This may have put some bidders off. Actual shipping ended up slightly more (I'd forgotten to weigh the packing material) but I wasn't too worried about that.

The buyer wasn't very communicative: I sent him a final total after the auction, he paid with Paypal, I sent him a parcel tracking number, and didn't hear anything else. However, he gave me a good feedback rating and comment, so can't complain! (SDS Tracking doesn't show very clearly when a packet has been safely received, just that it made it into the US; a bit annoying.)

With that success behind me, I've several other bits and pieces to get rid of; we'll see how it goes!

Final advice is simply to give it a go - it's very easy, and the buzz of winning an auction is great! (I can quit any time, really...)

parsi

Just to note: since 7 June sellers cannot charge extra for buyers who py with Paypal..

Raskolnikov

Selling can be a bit of a pain on eBay though. Since PayPal is the preferred form of payment on eBay it's a complete pain that you can't withdraw PayPal funds from your Irish PayPal account. To me, it's a barrier to sell anything and until PayPal sort it out I'll only be buying. If you are selling though, note what Tenshot said, buyers (especially experienced ones) are far more likely to bid at the end of an auction to pervent the price been driven up.

My eBay experience has been very positive so far though. I've made about 30 transactions with only one problem for some camera gear. Luckily the seller was understanding and gave me a full refund.

BigEejit

I've also only had good experiences, mainly because the lowest feedback of any of the sellers I used was 90 something ... and all had ratings of 98% +.

I find that buying stuff from Germany is good, there are fewer bids and you can end up with a better bargain than from buying the same thing from an american auction ... note that you wont get caught for import duty (like with american auctions) and if you ask nicely you will usually be allowed to pay by bank transfer ... most german auctions are COD and the like....

As others have already pointed out, ALWAYS send a message to the seller asking a question, a prompt reply shows that they are keeping an eye on it and are more likely to post quicker.....

As for selling, I had a similar experience to Tenshot .... nothing happened for ages, then with 5 minutes to go the bidding started, ended up with 11 bids .... I will be selling off more stuff soon, but it was hard to find decent packaging cheaply, ended up getting viking direct packaging (not the cheapest, but delivered to the door)

Tenshot

I think the trick with packing material is to buy more items than you sell, then you always have spare when you need it.

There was an amusing story in The Perfect Store: Inside eBay about an American woman who found herself buying more and more packing material to ship items she'd sold on eBay.

Eventually, she figured out she could save a lot of money if she ordered a 40-foot container of packing material, which was about five times what she needed. She bought it anyway, and auctioned the surplus to other sellers on eBay. The response was so good that she gave up selling her original items completely, and concentrated on the packing material. She is now the biggest supplier of shipping & packing raw material on eBay (and turning over several hundred grand a month, if I remember correctly.)

DEmeant0r

I've also had a similar experience with Ebay, not pleasant. Does anyone know if there is a time limit before you are not allowed to issue a chargeback?

0utshined

On your Credit Card it's about 3 months/ 90 days.

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