"Yes" landslide

Samson

Originally posted by Frank Grimes
I fail to see how people voting through a change where no real evedience has been produced on why this change is needed is right.

I know why change was needed; abuse of the current situation.
Pregnant parasites (or citizenship tourists if you want use less realistic language) turning up so that they can benefit from our overly generous welfare state.

And please don't quote the example of the Irish going to America for a better life etc; the Irish went abroad for a better life certainly, but they did so with the intention of earning a better life by hard work.
I have no problem with legal immigrants coming to this country to work and contribute to society and the exchequer, this is not the case with a significant tranche of these illegal immigrants, who just wish to come here and suckle off the state.

RicardoSmith

I think the YES vote was reasonable.

chewy

on the bassi of tallys and polls as that mostly was avail at the time

it exit polled got the 76% yes then asked why you voted afaik it

was 26% immigration system being abused

22% too many immigrants

14% fall in line with europe

15%????

ahh im guessing can someone fill in the rest

yerone put it to mcdowell that it was the third reason was the reason he put across and the second reason (and first reason) that was basicly misjudged or racist...

pete

Originally posted by Samson
I know why change was needed; abuse of the current situation.
Pregnant parasites (or citizenship tourists if you want use less realistic language) turning up so that they can benefit from our overly generous welfare state.

And please don't quote the example of the Irish going to America for a better life etc; the Irish went abroad for a better life certainly, but they did so with the intention of earning a better life by hard work.
I have no problem with legal immigrants coming to this country to work and contribute to society and the exchequer, this is not the case with a significant tranche of these illegal immigrants, who just wish to come here and suckle off the state.

I didn't think there was any place for racism on the politics board. I suppose that's exactly the kind of bull**** one would expect from someone with an adolf hitler avatar.

Tuars

The result shows a lot about the type of people we are: mean-spirited and just plain mean. The Me-generation.

sceptre

Originally posted by chewy
on the bassi of tallys and polls as that mostly was avail at the time

it exit polled got the 76% yes then asked why you voted afaik it

was 26% immigration system being abused

22% too many immigrants

14% fall in line with europe

15%????

ahh im guessing can someone fill in the rest

yerone put it to mcdowell that it was the third reason was the reason he put across and the second reason (and first reason) that was basicly misjudged or racist...

"Fall into line with Europe" was 20%

Your 15% gigure was "immigrant children shouldn't automatically get citizenship"

dudara

I think the result shows that we are, in general, a nation who went to the polls ill-informed and unaware that we are handing the right to citzenship to a shower of tos*ers in the dáil.

I personally think that review of the immigration system is needed, but amending the constitution in such a hurry is not the solution. I'm very disappointed with my country today. But it is a democracy and the people have voted.

therecklessone

Originally posted by Samson
[B

And please don't quote the example of the Irish going to America for a better life etc; the Irish went abroad for a better life certainly, but they did so with the intention of earning a better life by hard work.
I have no problem with legal immigrants coming to this country to work and contribute to society and the exchequer, this is not the case with a significant tranche of these illegal immigrants, who just wish to come here and suckle off the state. [/B]

Thousands of Irish went to the US as illegal immigrants and worked while there. How do you feel about them?

arcadegame2004

Actually 36% cited "Immigrants are exploiting the country". I know cos I saw it on RTE Election 2004.

I felt this very strongly. Not that ALL are doing so. But that MANY are. So it isn't a racist sentiment. We didn't mean ALL immigrants.

pete

Originally posted by arcadegame2004
Actually 36% cited "Immigrants are exploiting the country". I know cos I saw it on RTE Election 2004.

I felt this very strongly. Not that ALL are doing so. But that MANY are. So it isn't a racist sentiment. We didn't mean ALL immigrants.

Brilliant. I can't wait for the new improved Ireland now that the black babies can't take our jobs.

Don't you have a debate to ruin somewhere?

article6

Originally posted by pete
Brilliant. I can't wait for the new improved Ireland now that the black babies can't take our jobs.

Why are you bringing racism into the debate? "Vote NO or you're a racist" is, admittedly, a good slogan, but it's hardly the stuff of rational argument.

arcadegame2004

Thousands of Irish went to the US as illegal[/i] immigrants and worked while there. How do you feel about them?

I feel that most Irish people who went to the US in a life-or-death situation i.e. the Famine and had no choice. They were GENUINE asylum-seekers, as it were, unlike those who come to Ireland to claim asylum, after crossing several other EU states' national-boundaries looking for the most generous systems. Sending them back to the first EU state of entry would not entail any danger for them. If the language barrier is an issue they can claim asylum in the UK. After all, 80% of our asylum-seekers get here via NI and most others get here via the mainland UK.

Our economic-migrants of an illegal nature who went to the US need also to be seen in a different context from asylum-spongers here (93% of asylum-applications rejected last year justifies this characterisation sorry!). Why? Because the US, unlike Ireland, is a former colony, and therefore a country built on immigration, without which the US and nearly all the other jus-soli states would not exist (South American countries, Australia and New Zealand for example). So in that sense the US is VERY different from the ancient nations of Europe like Ireland.

Frank Grimes

Originally posted by Samson
I know why change was needed; abuse of the current situation.
Pregnant parasites (or citizenship tourists if you want use less realistic language) turning up so that they can benefit from our overly generous welfare state.

You completely missed the point of this whole thing didn't you?

flogen

the referendum issue can sadly be used by racists for their own means, but that doesnt make the proposal racist.

I personally think that review of the immigration system is needed, but amending the constitution in such a hurry is not the solution. I'm very disappointed with my country today. But it is a democracy and the people have voted.

couldnt agree with this more, this is no fix, there are alot of issues to be sorted out, however I felt there was a loophole in the irish constitution, and so I voted to seal it, I showed FF that I wasn't buying their tripe that this would solve all, however, by voting to get rid of them (on a local and european level, at least for now).

Flogen

therecklessone

Originally posted by arcadegame2004
I

Our economic-migrants of an illegal nature who went to the US need also to be seen in a different context from asylum-spongers here (93% of asylum-applications rejected last year justifies this characterisation sorry!). Why? Because the US, unlike Ireland, is a former colony, and therefore a country built on immigration, without which the US and nearly all the other jus-soli states would not exist (South American countries, Australia and New Zealand for example). So in that sense the US is VERY different from the ancient nations of Europe like Ireland.

Cop out.

Thousands left this country to enter the US illegally and work there in the 1980s. And they were illegal because the US authorities did not want them! Yet they went over and took jobs that could have gone to US citizens, or legal immigrants.

Economic migrants come to this country to better themselves. They want our standard of living (and who can blame them) and most are prepared to work hard to achieve it. It is official policy that denies them that right.

In addition, unless we as a community do something drastic, we will face the same demographic problems that our European partners are currently plauged with (i.e. an aging population and a low birth rate). Immigration is good for our economy.

pete

Originally posted by arcadegame2004
the ancient nations of Europe like Ireland.

uhhh hello? ancient?

we haven't even had the 1916 centenary yet ffs.

pete

Originally posted by article6
Why are you bringing racism into the debate? "Vote NO or you're a racist" is, admittedly, a good slogan, but it's hardly the stuff of rational argument.

go tell it to the exit poll respondents that gave "keeping the darkies out" as their reason for voting yes.

note: I'm paraphrasing

flogen

sorry pete, but thats some major paraphrasing there.

Maybe you were refering to the 'too many immigrants' reason, but thats no where near saying 'keep blackies out'. Sure, some may have wanted to say that, and meant that by saying this, but to generalise and say all gave this reason because they want the blacks out is just pure ignorance.

Flogen

pete

Originally posted by flogen
generalise and say all gave this reason

And where did i suggest this, exactly?

When i said

go tell it to the exit poll respondents that gave "keeping the darkies out" as their reason for voting yes.

you will note that i didn't say "go tell it to all of the" or anything like that - I was specifically referring to the 48% of Yes voters that gave their reasons as:

26% immigration system being abused

22% too many immigrants

Any clearer?

edit: ha sometimes I read too fast. i see the point you were making, but I stand over what I said above. I've heard both of those reasons made as statements too many times over the years, usually prefaced with "I'm not racist, but...."

sceptre

Originally posted by arcadegame2004
the US, unlike Ireland, is a former colony

The what now?

Ireland has long been categorised as the first colony that England got, the US as the first one that they lost


(for various reasons (most of which make sense) historians don't tend to include France)

flogen

Originally posted by pete
Any clearer?

well you've just cleared up which section you were paraphrasing, which was the group I figured in the first place.
Neither of these groups are saying they voted yes to 'keep darkies out', they did so because they felt the immigration system is being abused or there are too many immigrants in the country. Now as I already said, some who chose these two may have been hiding their real beliefs that they dislike black people and want them out of their country, but there is nothing to say it was all of them, and so you have no right to generalise them as such. You made a very off the wall generalisation and basically said that anyone who feels the immigration system is being abused is a racist.

Flogen

Frank Grimes

Originally posted by arcadegame2004
Because the US, unlike Ireland, is a former colony,

Do you even know the history of your own country?

Samson

Originally posted by therecklessone
Thousands of Irish went to the US as illegal immigrants and worked while there. How do you feel about them?

Yes, they did.
But they went to work, not to claim social welfare.

chewy

was 36% immigration system being abused

22% too many immigrants

20% fall in line with europe

15% immigrant children shouldn't automatically get citizenship (re-phrase)




i think this is closer to what it was

pete

Originally posted by flogen
well you've just cleared up which section you were paraphrasing, which was the group I figured in the first place.
Neither of these groups are saying they voted yes to 'keep darkies out', they did so because they felt the immigration system is being abused or there are too many immigrants in the country. Now as I already said, some who chose these two may have been hiding their real beliefs that they dislike black people and want them out of their country, but there is nothing to say it was all of them, and so you have no right to generalise them as such. You made a very off the wall generalisation and basically said that anyone who feels the immigration system is being abused is a racist.

Flogen

I already edited my post there. I read yours too fast.

I'm not suggesting these people are fully paid up Klan members. I think it's a far more insidious form of racism than that. And I'm not just talking about anonymous statistics here - I'm talking about my friends, my family, my colleagues.

The whole thing saddens me greatly.

therecklessone

Originally posted by Samson
Yes, they did.
But they went to work, not to claim social welfare.

And when our government allows "asylum seekers" to work, so will our own economic immigrants.

Do you believe everybody who comes to this country to claim asylum, genuine or not, wants to sit back and live off our welfare system?

Samson

Originally posted by pete
I didn't think there was any place for racism on the politics board. I suppose that's exactly the kind of bull**** one would expect from someone with an adolf hitler avatar.

I am not a racist. Right wing I may be, but racist no.
Maybe you should re-read my post, particularly the part about me having no problem with legal immigrants. Those who are prepared to contribute to our economy, not just take from it.
We have enough home-grown parasites, without importing more.

Samson

Originally posted by therecklessone
Do you believe everybody who comes to this country to claim asylum, genuine or not, wants to sit back and live off our welfare system?

Not every one of them, no.
I do believe however, that the majority of those who come here illegally are not genuinely seeking refuge from torture, abuse, fear of death.
I have no problem, whatsoever, with genuine asylum seekers.

DMC

Dublin City Yes 77.91% No 22.09%

therecklessone

Originally posted by Samson

I do believe however, that the majority of those who come here illegally are not genuinely seeking refuge from torture, abuse, fear of death.

I agree with you there.

So they're much like our fellow Irish men and women who left this country from the 50s onwards for economic reasons, yes? The difference being they aren't allowed work because they are in the process of making a spurious asylum application so they can stay in this country, agreed?