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"Yes" landslide

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13567…16

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    #62
    flogen
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 10,247 Mod ✭✭✭✭flogen


    Originally posted by pete
    I already edited my post there. I read yours too fast.

    I'm not suggesting these people are fully paid up Klan members. I think it's a far more insidious form of racism than that. And I'm not just talking about anonymous statistics here - I'm talking about my friends, my family, my colleagues.

    The whole thing saddens me greatly.

    just read your edit.

    Its fair enough if you've come across people who voted yes for racist reasons, its actually quite disgusting tbh. I know of afew people who have very borderline views, and often its a result of mis-education from parents and piers etc., and as I said I'm sure people did vote yes for racist reasons, but I didn't, and I don't think its right to assume that anyone who did vote yes is a racist of any description (I know thats not what your implying).

    Its a shame this referendum has been used by racists and racists groups as a bandwagon for which to push their idiotic ideals, but that doesn't make the change wrong, in this case I feel such views are down to twisted logic and mis-education.

    Flogen


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    #63
    Samson
    Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 3,129 ✭✭✭Samson


    Originally posted by Frank Grimes
    You completely missed the point of this whole thing didn't you?

    Well you tell me what the point was then, other than to give the government the power to enact legislation to do away with the gaping loophole in our constitution allowing anyone who takes a fancy to this country's overly generous social welfare system to stop by (whilst heavily pregnant), have an Irish baby, and hit paydirt?


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    #64
    pete
    Registered Users Posts: 1,731 ✭✭✭pete


    Originally posted by Samson
    I am not a racist. Right wing I may be, but racist no.

    If you talk of immigration in the language of the extreme right & post using an Adolf Hitler avatar, just what do you expect?


    Why, I imagine some of your friends are black too.
    the part about me having no problem with legal immigrants. Those who are prepared to contribute to our economy, not just take from it

    Notwithstanding the fact that there's more than one way to contribute to a SOCIETY, explain to me how they're meant to contribute to the ECONOMY (other than as consumers, of course) when they're not ALLOWED to work? I presume it's that fact that they don't work that you have a problem with?


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    #65
    Frank Grimes
    Registered Users Posts: 5,333 ✭✭✭Frank Grimes


    Originally posted by Samson
    Well you tell me what the point was then, other than to give the government the power to enact legislation to do away with the gaping loophole in our constitution allowing anyone who takes a fancy to this country's overly generous social welfare system to stop by (whilst heavily pregnant), have an Irish baby, and hit paydirt?
    Your posts seem to be concerned with illegal immigrants coming here and sponging off the social welfare system.
    I do not think Irish or foreign people should be allowed get away with this.
    But this referendum will not address/solve people coming here illegally or exploiting the social welfare system.
    It has just set a precident which could turn out to be bad for everyone.


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    #66
    chewy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,254 ✭✭✭chewy


    take a deep breath and ignore samson

    he's not racist but feels its ok to call a group of people parasites (i know he did say irish and foreign parasites) but still...


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    #67
    pete
    Registered Users Posts: 1,731 ✭✭✭pete


    Originally posted by Samson
    Well you tell me what the point was then, other than to give the government the power to enact legislation to do away with the gaping loophole in our constitution allowing anyone who takes a fancy to this country's overly generous social welfare system to stop by (whilst heavily pregnant), have an Irish baby, and hit paydirt?

    This may come as a surprise to you, but it was actually about citizenship rights for CHILDREN who - shock horror - exist as individuals, with the rights that entails, independently of their parents.

    Who'd have thought it.


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    #68
    Samson
    Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 3,129 ✭✭✭Samson


    Originally posted by therecklessone
    I agree with you there.

    So they're much like our fellow Irish men and women who left this country from the 50s onwards for economic reasons, yes? The difference being they aren't allowed work because they are in the process of making a spurious asylum application so they can stay in this country, agreed?

    So you are suggesting that they come here to work?
    Even though, the majority of those whose asylum applications have been a success continue to claim the multitude of benefits available from the state.
    Are these people unable to find work, is every second employer in this state a racist and unwilling to give these people a job?


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    #69
    Frank Grimes
    Registered Users Posts: 5,333 ✭✭✭Frank Grimes


    Originally posted by Samson
    Even though, the majority of those whose asylum applications have been a have success continue to claim the multitude of benefits available from the state.
    How do you know this exactly? Do you have any proof?


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    #70
    Samson
    Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 3,129 ✭✭✭Samson


    Originally posted by pete
    Why, I imagine some of your friends are black too.

    No, I don't have any black friends. I do, however, employ a black person.


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    #71
    Samson
    Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 3,129 ✭✭✭Samson


    Originally posted by Frank Grimes
    Your posts seem to be concerned with illegal immigrants coming here and sponging off the social welfare system.
    I do not think Irish or foreign people should be allowed get away with this.
    But this referendum will not address/solve people coming here illegally or exploiting the social welfare system.
    It has just set a precident which could turn out to be bad for everyone.

    I agree that it will not stop the influx, but I am of the opinion that it will close off one route which is being abused, and has continued to be abused, regardless of last year's (or was it 2002?) Supreme Court judgement.


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    #72
    chewy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,254 ✭✭✭chewy


    just out of interest... as of rte count

    Dun Laoghaire / Rathdown 70.91% 29.09%
    Sligo 73.36% 26.64%
    Leitrim 76.29% 23.71%

    and lowest no ie highest yes ...

    Longford 84.37% 15.63%
    Meath 83.23% 16.77%
    South Dublin 82.15% 17.85%

    what yas think?edit update


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    #73
    Frank Grimes
    Registered Users Posts: 5,333 ✭✭✭Frank Grimes


    Originally posted by Samson
    I agree that it will not stop the influx, but I am of the opinion that it will close off one route which is being abused, and has continued to be abused, regardless of last year's (or was it 2002?) Supreme Court judgement.
    No-one has been given nationality because of that judgement. I fail to see how a yes vote has "closed" anything off relating to it.


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    #74
    Rock Climber
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,034 ✭✭✭Rock Climber


    Originally posted by pete
    This may come as a surprise to you, but it was actually about citizenship rights for CHILDREN who - shock horror - exist as individuals, with the rights that entails, independently of their parents.

    Who'd have thought it.
    Thats disingenius to be honest as the referendum was called to plug a loophole wherby non genuine "asylum" seekers would have babies here to get them citizenship.
    Genuine asylum seekers never had anything to lose.
    The non genuine "asylum" seekers were and are actually always more at fault for using their kids in such an explotative cynical manner.
    The numbers of these whether there was only one or a thousand and one was always immaterial in my view as genuine asylum seekers would always be looked after when they had a satisfactory case.
    And clearly 8 out of 10 Irish voters felt that way.


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    #75
    therecklessone
    Registered Users Posts: 17,213 ✭✭✭✭therecklessone


    Originally posted by Samson

    Even though, the majority of those whose asylum applications have been a have success continue to claim the multitude of benefits available from the state.

    I think I can just about make out what you're saying there. Do you have any proof to back up your claim?


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    #76
    Samson
    Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 3,129 ✭✭✭Samson


    A "yes" vote has closed off nothing as of yet.
    It has, however, empowered the government to legislate on the citizen issue.
    The government have indicated clearly that they will enact legislation which will state that not every person born on this island will be entitled to citizenship of this state, only those who have an parent who is an Irish citizen or has been legally resident in the state for 3 of the preceding 4 years.


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    #77
    Samson
    Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 3,129 ✭✭✭Samson


    Originally posted by therecklessone
    I think I can just about make out what you're saying there. Do you have any proof to back up your claim?

    Post edited, so that it makes more sense.

    I only have access to partial and anecdotal figures at present.
    However, I am presently awaiting a response to a FOI request from both The Dept. of Justice Equality and Law Reform and The Dept. of Social and Family Affairs. I will gladly post the full responses to my requests as soon as I have received same.

    Can you quote any statistics/evidence to contradict my position?


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    #78
    arcadegame2004
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,406 ✭✭✭arcadegame2004


    Originally posted by Frank Grimes
    Do you even know the history of your own country?

    You misunderstand me. I meant that the US was the first country to be founded by colonists e.g. they actually kept referring to themselves as British colonists until the War of Independence. I still think my point is valid when viewed in that context.

    BTW when I said that Ireland was an ancient nation, I didn't mean that we had an ancient independence. I meant that we considered ourselves a separate nation even way back when the Brits ruled over us.


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    #79
    Frank Grimes
    Registered Users Posts: 5,333 ✭✭✭Frank Grimes


    Originally posted by Rock Climber
    Thats disingenius to be honest as the referendum was called to plug a loophole wherby non genuine "asylum" seekers would have babies here to get them citizenship.
    I've said it in another post, the Supreme Court judgment last year stated that the child's nationality had no bearing on the asylum application of the parents.
    And there was a deportation order served against the two families as their asylum application was rejected.


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    #80
    monument
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 14,080 Mod ✭✭✭✭monument


    Originally posted by article6
    Why are you bringing racism into the debate?

    Because race is what it was about.

    The fact you missed that shows a lot.


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    #81
    therecklessone
    Registered Users Posts: 17,213 ✭✭✭✭therecklessone


    Originally posted by Samson


    Can you quote any statistics/evidence to contradict my position?

    No I can't. But I don't believe I need to. You're the one making the claims regarding sponging asylum seekers, I'm just pointing out the facts as I see them.

    1. Asylum seekers cannot work while their applications are being processed.

    2. Thousands of Irish citizens left this country and entered another illegally to work.

    3. Their situation is much closer to that of the economic migrants who have come to this country than you are prepared to admit.

    I think that covers my position. I await further from yourself when you get your FOI answer.


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    #82
    Blade
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Music Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 4,499 Mod ✭✭✭✭Blade


    Originally posted by Samson
    No, I don't have any black friends. I do, however, employ a black person.

    Yeah, I bet you have him cleaning toilets Adolf!!! <joke>

    Seriously, I wish the FEW people here whining about the No vote, would cop on to themselves and stop insinuating that 80% of Irish voters are either idiots that didn't understand the question or racists. That's an absolute insult to the people of this country. Just accept the fact that this was the correct decision according to the majority and that very few agree with you, so it's more probable that YOU got it wrong or didn't understand the question.

    Also this referendum had nothing to do with Asylum seekers, it was about citizenship rights.


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    #83
    Is1ldur
    Registered Users Posts: 585 ✭✭✭Is1ldur


    Originally posted by Blade
    Seriously, I wish the few people here whining about the No vote, would cop on to themselves and stop insinuating that 80% of Irish voters are either idiots that didn't understand the question or racists. That's an absolute insult to the people of this country. Just accept the fact that this was the correct decision according to the majority and that very few agree with you, so it's more probably that YOU got it wrong or didn't understand the question.

    Also this referendum had nothing to do with Asylum seekers, it was about citizenship rights.


    I totally agree.


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    #84
    Elessar
    Registered Users Posts: 5,250 ✭✭✭Elessar


    Originally posted by Blade
    Seriously, I wish the few people here whining about the No vote, would cop on to themselves and stop insinuating that 80% of Irish voters are either idiots that didn't understand the question or racists. That's an absolute insult to the people of this country. Just accept the fact that this was the correct decision according to the majority and that very few agree with you, so it's more probably that YOU got it wrong or didn't understand the question.

    Here Here!

    The Irish people made the right choice. Myself and many of my friends voted Yes and we are not racists. We are friends with several African nationals. If the No voters crowd were to see first-hand just how much benefit immigrants are getting and how many of them are literally abusing the system, they would finally realise what utter boll**ks some of their views are.

    Personally, I'm pleased how mature my nation has showed itself to be.


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    #85
    simu
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,730 ✭✭✭✭simu


    Originally posted by Elessar

    If the No voters crowd were to see first-hand just how much benefit immigrants are getting and how many of them are literally abusing the system, they would finally realise what utter boll**ks some of their views are.

    What are these benefits?


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    #86
    Frank Grimes
    Registered Users Posts: 5,333 ✭✭✭Frank Grimes


    Originally posted by Elessar
    If the No voters crowd were to see first-hand just how much benefit immigrants are getting and how many of them are literally abusing the system, they would finally realise what utter boll**ks some of their views are.
    You do know this won't stop people abusing "the system" right?


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    #87
    gandalf
    Registered Users Posts: 26,458 ✭✭✭✭gandalf


    Closing this thread for 24 hours as things are getting emotive and I really don't want to ban anyone (honest).


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    #88
    ecksor
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 10,501 Mod ✭✭✭✭ecksor


    Bah, I was reading that.


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    #89
    gandalf
    Registered Users Posts: 26,458 ✭✭✭✭gandalf


    OK reopening this thread.

    I expect people to discuss this in a non-emotive fashion and without bandying about labels like "racist" or "pinko" or "facist" etc when they express themselves.

    If you make statements be prepared to back them up with fact from a verifiable source.


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    #90
    jd
    Registered Users Posts: 5,700 ✭✭✭jd


    Listening on Newstalk, there is some anecdotal evidence that some people were coming out just to vote on the referendum, and spoiling the other ballot papers.
    (An examination of the % of spoiled votes is needed to verify this)
    While I am in no way saying that it is/was racist to have voted YES, do people find this development worrying? What do you think the motivations of these people are.?

    For the record I am worried about these people- I hope I'm wrong but I suspect the motivation for a proportion of them was Racist.


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    #91
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,803 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    Originally posted by Blade
    Also this referendum had nothing to do with Asylum seekers, it was about citizenship rights.
    The burning question is: how many people realised that? What was it - 36% of people voted yes because the immigration system is being abused, and 22% because there are too many immigrants? That doesn't exactly suggest a clear grasp of the issue.


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