Soccer Pools for Euro 2004 - Discussion

naitkris

in order to keep the original Soccer Pools for Euro 2004 thread (http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=165983) from getting too bloated, and for users to discuss the choices made in that thread etc. etc. i have now started a seperate thread.

naitkris

Originally posted by The Muppet

Denmark v Italy =Italy
Sweden v Bulgaria = Bulgaria
Bulgaria v Denmark =Bulgaria
Italy v Sweden =Italy
Italy v Bulgaria = Italy
Denmark v Sweden =Sweden

...

Group c
First Place (C1) =Italy
Second place (c2) = Bulgaria

somehow i don't think Bulgaria are going to do that well (although they have nothing to lose which is quite dangerous), same goes for Italy, just watched some of their recent performances and i think group C will not have Italy topping the group, they might not even go through the group tbh.

big stars don't always make a winning team, it's the teamwork and tactics that do that. Italy are also too reliant on one single player to feed the forwards the ball which is not a good thing to do if something should happen or if the player is to underperform on the day. as well as this, the majority of their team play in Italy and will not have as much experience playing against foreign opposition compared to teams with a lot of foreign-based players.

you never know on the day... Italy might get it together against a less than top-performing of late Denmark team tomorrow.

The Muppet

Italy usually pull it together in big tournaments and their defences are usually solid so I can see them conceding many . I went for bulgaria as my surprise team , every tournament throws up one and I think thye have a good chance of getting out of the group.

Who apart from youself of couse could have predicted Greece beatin portugal and maybe they will be another surprise team with the extra confidence that win will give them.

Jivin Turkey

Originally posted by naitkris
Italy are also too reliant on one single player to feed the forwards the ball which is not a good thing to do if something should happen or if the player is to underperform on the day. as well as this, the majority of their team play in Italy and will not have as much experience playing against foreign opposition compared to teams with a lot of foreign-based players.

you never know on the day... Italy might get it together against a less than top-performing of late Denmark team tomorrow.

So Italy are too reliant on one player to feed the forwards. Who is that Totti or Del Piero or Camaronesi or Zanetti or even Zambrotta or Pirlo?

And I think having all your players playing in one of the best leagues in Europe as well as most of them playing with the bigger teams who have champions league football year in year out is more experience than the like of any other team in their group who have many players that still play in the national league for poor sides.

naitkris

Originally posted by Jivin Turkey
So Italy are too reliant on one player to feed the forwards. Who is that Totti or Del Piero or Camaronesi or Zanetti or even Zambrotta or Pirlo?

And I think having all your players playing in one of the best leagues in Europe as well as most of them playing with the bigger teams who have champions league football year in year out is more experience than the like of any other team in their group who have many players that still play in the national league for poor sides.

perhaps, but some of the Italian players while some of them do play Champions League every year or so, that is not all the time. most of the time it is playing other Italian clubs and this makes for most of the Italian team to have the same kind of style, if they had more foreign-based players in whatever league or country, they'd adopt a different playing style, tactics and feel for the game.

Jivin Turkey

Playing against Italian clubs week in week out plus in the champions league every year, will develop a player far more than playing against teams like lyngby cska sofia and halmstad. Thats not an opinion, its a fact.

Makaveli

Originally posted by naitkris
perhaps, but some of the Italian players while some of them do play Champions League every year or so, that is not all the time. most of the time it is playing other Italian clubs and this makes for most of the Italian team to have the same kind of style, if they had more foreign-based players in whatever league or country, they'd adopt a different playing style, tactics and feel for the game.

It would be assumed by most I'd say that the Premiership, Serie A, and La Liga are the best leagues in the world?

Are you saying therefore, that Spanish, Italian and English players shouldn't play in their domestic leagues because they are losing out tactically and experience wise?
Considering that most players in the International sides come from the top 3 or 4 sides in their domestic leagues they still experience European football and league football at the highest calibre.

You seem to be of the opinion that players in these leagues and in the international side don't get to play top level European club championship regularly.

Going by the 03/04 season:

England:
James - Man City
Cole - Arsenal (1st in PL - CL last season)
G. Neville - Man Utd (3rd in PL - CL last season)
Terry - Chelsea (2nd in PL - CL last season)
Campbell - Arsenal (1st in PL - CL last season)
Gerrard - Liverpool (4th in PL - Uefa Cup last season)
Scholes - Man Utd (3rd in PL - CL last season)
Lampard - Chelsea (2nd in PL - CL last season)
Beckham - Real Madrid (4th in LL - CL last season)
Owen - Liverpool (4th in PL - Uefa Cup last season)
Rooney - Everton
King - Spurs
Butt - Man Utd (3rd in PL - CL last season)
Hargreaves - Bayern Munich (2nd in BL I think - CL last season)
Vassell - Villa (6th in PL)
Bridge - Chelsea (2nd in PL - CL last season)
ROBINSON - Spurs now (Leeds last season)
Phil NEVILLE - Man Utd (3rd in PL - CL last season)
CARRAGHER - Liverpool (4th in PL - Uefa Cup last season)
Joe COLE - Chelsea (2nd in PL - CL last season)
DYER - Newcastle (5th in PL - Uefa Cup last season)
HESKEY - Birmingham now (Liverpool in 03/04 - Uefa Cup last season)
WALKER - Leciester
(2 players playing abroad, one of which in La Liga)

Italy:
Gianluigi BUFFON - Juve (3rd)
Christian PANUCCI - Roma (2nd)
Massimo ODDO - Lazio (6th)
Cristiano ZANETTI - Inter (4th)
Fabio CANNAVARO - Inter (4th)
Matteo FERRARI - Parma (5th)
Alessandro DEL PIERO - Juve (3rd)
Gennaro GATTUSO - Milan (1st)
Christian VIERI - Inter (4th)
Francesco TOTTI - Roma (2nd)
Bernardo CORRADI - Lazio (6th)
Francesco TOLDO - Inter (4th)
Alessandro NESTA - Milan (1st)
Stefano FIORE - Lazio (6th)
Giuseppe FAVALLI - Lazio (6th)
Mauro CAMORANESI - Juve (3rd)
Marco DI VAIO - Juve (3rd)
Antonio CASSANO - Roma (2nd)
Gianluca ZAMBROTTA - Juve (3rd)
Simone PERROTTA - Chievo (9th)
Andrea PIRLO - Milan (1st)
Angelo PERUZZI - Lazio (6th)
Marco MATERAZZI - Inter (4th)
(Entire squad play domestically)

Spain:
Santiago CAÑIZARES - Valenicia (1st)
Joan CAPDEVILA - Deportivo (3rd)
Carlos MARCHENA - Valencia (1st)
David ALBELDA - Valencia (1st)
Carles PUYOL - Barcelona (2nd)
Iván HELGUERA - Real Madrid (4th)
RAÚL González - Real Madrid (4th)
Rubén BARAJA - Valencia (1st)
Fernando TORRES - Athletico Madrid (7th)
Fernando MORIENTES - Monaco
Albert LUQUE - Deportivo (3rd)
García GABRI - Barcelona (2nd)
Daniel ARANZUBIA - Bilbao (5th)
VICENTE Rodríguez - Valencia (1st)
RAÚL BRAVO - Real Madrid (4th)
XABI ALONSO - Real Sociedad
Joseba ETXEBERRIA - Bilbao (5th)
CÉSAR Martín - Deportivo (3rd)
SÁNCHEZ Joaquín - Betis (9th)
Hernández XAVI - Barcelona (2nd)
Juan Carlos VALERÓN - Deportivo (3rd)
Gutiérrez JUANITO - Betis (9th)
Iker CASILLAS - Real Madrid (4th)
(1 player abroad, on loan from Real Madrid)

So, you can clearly see that the majority of the players play for the top sides in their domestic countries, and are experienced in European club competition and they play in the best leagues in the world so they can't really move up.
The likes of the French and Dutch have inferior domestic leagues, so they have to play abroad in general to play in the best leagues.
What you have to remember is, there are lots of foreigners in the 3 big leagues, so the domestic players are playing against different styles week in, week out. Granted the tactics might be similar, but they are not coming up against players they have no experience against.

Take France v England for example, most of the players on the pitch have played against each other numerous times before.

So, although I can see your point, I think it is flawed.

naitkris

i'd add up the scores myself, but am too lazy, so any chance of an update to the Soccer Pools for Euro 2004 thread (http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=165983), scores-wise now that all teams have played at least one match?

naitkris

just realised that if Latvia beat Holland tomorrow and Germany draw or lose to Czech Rep. that i will have an almost 100% correct quarter finals predictions except for France going ahead of England in group B... very wierd as some people had been pointing out that my predictions were extremely unlikely.

Originally posted by naitkris

Group A
First Place (A1) = Portugal
Second place (A2) = Greece

Group B
First Place (B1) = England
Second place (B2) = France

Group C
First Place (C1) = Sweden
Second place (C2) = Denmark

Group D
First Place (D1) = Czech Rep
Second place (D2) = Latvia

come on Latvia you can do it!!!

eirebhoy

Absolutely superb predictions naitkris, I'm actually really shocked at how good they are. I only got 2 teams correct in my prediction for the top two of each group but I am amazingly top so far for predicting the results.

knobbles

wow, served with humble pie.
Latvia prediction for 2nd is ridiculous though :rolleyes:


...and if it actually happens that's ridiculous

naitkris

Originally posted by knobbles
Latvia prediction for 2nd is ridiculous though :rolleyes:

yeah, Latvia didn't quite get it together. don't know why i was the only person with any faith in Greece, i've watched them play many times over the years and they're always well organised and willing to put the work in - can't say the same for the bigger named countries in Euro 2004 (players in these big footballing countries seem to think that just playing for a big footballing country will win you the match). hopefully Sweden and Denmark will go through and then on for a Scandinavian final...

hoping some more of my predictions go as planned:

Originally posted by naitkris

A1 v B2 (QF1) = Portugal
B1 v A2 (QF2) = Greece
C1 v D2 (QF3) = Sweden

...

Final
SF1 v SF2 (Winner) = Sweden