Spin Fein To Knee Cap Europe?

pigeonbutler · 16-06-2004 8:57pm

For the record the following are long-time members of the IRA army council, the 7 man body which runs the organisation on a daily basis:

Gerry Adams - President of Sinn Féin
Martin Ferris - T.D. for Sinn Féin
Tom "Slab" Murphy - Millionaire smuggler and head of south Armagh brigade IRA

Can't remember the other 4 off hand. But if anyone disputes this they should invite the named gentlemen to Sue me for defamation. I doubt that'll happen. No jury in the land would convict me. Well as long as they were protected from being kneecapped!

Also for the record the IRA consitution states that the only sovereign government of the island of Ireland is the IRA army council, which derived their "power" from some of the surviving Anti-treaty members of the second Dail.

So as an (almost) 18 year-old male and therefore the stereotypical Sinn Féin Voter I'd like to state the following reasons why I will never give a Sinn Féin candidate any mark on a ballot paper:

1. Constitution states that only the Dail has the right to raise an army in this state. They ignore this.
2. That private army gives no recognition to the Irish state and believe they are the "real" government of the island of Ireland.
3. They as a party are economically illiterate and far more left-wing than I could stomach.
4. Entering the democratic process as they are currently doing is merely another tactic, intended to go hand in hand with violence in order to enforce a 32-county state on the Unionist population of the north. It's called TUAS. Which to outsiders stands for Totally UnArmed Strategy but which to themselves means Tactical Use of Armed Struggle.

The Brigadier · 16-06-2004 10:10pm

Nice to see you have your head screwed on right there!

monument · 16-06-2004 11:14pm

Originally posted by pigeonbutler
For the record the following are long-time members of the IRA army council, the 7 man body which runs the organisation on a daily basis:

Quick, run to the guards with the proof you have - the scum will go to jall for years. :rolleyes:

It's the old case of just because you have said it does not make it true.

Originally posted by pigeonbutler
3. They as a party are economically illiterate and far more left-wing than I could stomach.

Just because they don't agree with your, or other, economic views does not mean they are uninformed of them. I’d imagine they’re fully aware of right wing economics.

The Brigadier · 16-06-2004 11:19pm

Originally posted by monument

It's the old case of just because you have said it does not make it true.

And just because anyone who knows is too terrified to come forward does not mean it is not.

bus77 · 17-06-2004 1:43am

Originally posted by pigeonbutler
For the record the following are long-time members of the IRA army council, the 7 man body which runs the organisation on a daily basis:

Ill tell ya where a lot of this "information" comes from....

"Hello, Is this the Ministry Of Defence?"

Whole books get published based on these secret MI5 files. Then said books get quoted by anyone that can read.
The brits invented disinformation, you cant deny that or ever let yourself forget it when reading this stuff.

Agent Smith · 17-06-2004 1:53am

be like me,
b oblivious to the past..... when the knee capping comes, i'll be danceing free....

Mighty_Mouse · 17-06-2004 9:17am

For the record the following are long-time members of the IRA army council, the 7 man body which runs the organisation on a daily basis:

Wow! You really are informed. The next Paul Williams (crime correspondant supreme) me thinks!

Entering the democratic process as they are currently doing is merely another tactic, intended to go hand in hand with violence

How is it going hand in hand if their on Cease-fire?

Sinn Fein are the ballot box end of the armalite and ballot box strategy. .

Your distinction is that the "modern" republicans are now pursueing an political struggle?!A

I don't see any sign of the ending of the armalite side of that - we only have a "ceasefire" at the moment

No sign? Wow! As for the ceasefire...............what did we have at the end of the war of independance/civil war?

As for those stating decommissioning as a requirement? Can I ask their opinion on how further decommissioning will benefit anyone? Answer this question: when will decommissioning reach completion?

bertiebowl · 17-06-2004 9:47am

when will decommissioning reach completion?

Erm.....when an independent body such as the arms commission / UN inspectors says it has?

This is the fundamental reason why I could never vote for Sinn Fein/IRA - a party with a gun under the table aimed at your goolies..........

The Brigadier · 17-06-2004 10:00am

Originally posted by Mighty_Mouse

Answer this question: when will decommissioning reach completion?

When paramilitaries don't have guns? I would have considered that pretty obvious..

What need do the IRA have for guns? ( I am aware that other paramilitary groups have arms..but we are discussing Sinn Fein here)

If Sinn Fein are not linked to the IRA, then why do they take credit for the cease fire? If ther are not linked to the IRA, then I have as much right to claim credit for the cease fire - none!

Also if Sinn Fein are not linked to the IRA, then why have they not sued any of the writers of books claiming they are? If I wrote a book claiming that the PDs were the political wing of the IRA and that Mary Harney was commander in chief, do you think I would be sued???

Mighty_Mouse · 17-06-2004 10:32am

Erm.....when an independent body such as the arms commission

We currently have one. He is happy with decommissioning to date? Whats the problem?
If the IRA announce tommorrow that they no longer have any weapons.................will you be happy? Probably not, if the IRA announce they have no more weapons after two more bouts of decommissioning, will you be happy? probably not. Its an impossible situation with the only benefit being that its a means by which the IRA can convince all parties its serious when its says it has finished its armed struggle. Looking for surrender by one party or another is no good IMO.

When paramilitaries don't have guns? I would have considered that pretty obvious..

Ok, take me through how you verify that the IRA has no more weapons.

What need do the IRA have for guns? (

They don't hence decommissioning

If Sinn Fein are not linked to the IRA, then why do they take credit for the cease fire?

Who said there are no linkages?Do you not agree that there would not be a ceasefire without the persistance of Sinn Fein.

ps
IMO we have a lot more than a ceasefire from the IRA and the complete focus on a party which has significantly decommissioned on several occasions, apologised to victims, and stated the war is over is a little crazy.

bertiebowl · 17-06-2004 11:01am

We currently have one[a decommissioning body]. He is happy with decommissioning to date? Whats the problem?

Eh......my recollection was that the decommissioning body was not happy with "decommissioning" that's taken place......

Mighty_Mouse · 17-06-2004 11:37am

You recollect wrong.

The Brigadier · 17-06-2004 11:42am

Mighty Mouse, do you have any proof of that?

Mighty_Mouse · 17-06-2004 12:06pm

Mighty Mouse, do you have any proof of that?

I have to proove the very public statements made to date by De Chastelain??? um: www.yahoo.com

This is before the first bout of decommmissiong: : :

In our report of 31 January 2000, the Commission stated that intense negotiations were continuing and we would report any concrete result that came from them.

"Since then, we have had several contacts with the IRA and loyalist representatives.

"The IRA declaration of support for the process leading to a permanent peace in Ireland, the contribution made by the cease-fires, and the statement that the IRA provides no threat to that process are recognised.

"We believe that these are important issues of considerable significance for peace and stability in Northern Ireland and they were reflected in our January 31 report.

"Since December 1999, the IRA has engaged frankly and helpfully with the Commission and we note their intention to do so.

"We also note the IRA assessment that the question of British forces and loyalist paramilitaries in Northern Ireland must be addressed.

"While the future of British troops is outside our remit, the elimination of the threat posed by loyalist paramilitary arms is clearly within the Commission's remit.

"We have been advised by loyalist representatives of their commitment to address the issue of their arms in the context of similar action taken by the IRA.

"In our discussions this week with the UVF and UFF representatives, each confirmed their positions as stated in our 31 January report, and the UFF representatives further engaged with us on methods of decommissioning and related support issues.

"We welcome the IRA's belief that the 'state of perpetual crisis' can be averted and that the issue of arms can be resolved.

"We find particularly significant, and view as valuable progress, the assertion made to us by the IRA representative that the IRA will consider how to put arms and explosives beyond use, in the context of full implementation of the Good Friday Agreement, and in the context of the removal of the causes of conflict.

"The Commission welcomes the IRA's recognition that the issue of arms need to be dealt with in an acceptable way and that is a necessary objective of a genuine peace process and their statement that for those reasons they are engaged with us.

"The Commission further welcomes the IRA's commitment to sustain and enhance its contribution to a durable peace and their statement that they have supported and will continue to support efforts to secure the resolution of the arms issue.

"The representative indicated to us today (Friday) the context in which the IRA will initiate a comprehensive process to put arms beyond use, in a manner as to ensure maximum public confidence.

"The Commission believes that this commitment, on the basis described above, holds out the real prospect of an agreement which would enable it to fulfil the substance of its mandate.

"We will make a further report to the two Governments as appropriate."

SIGNED: Tauno Nieminen, John de Chastelain, Andrew D. Sens

Belfast 11 February, 2000

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/639850.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/640089.stm

more infor:

http://foreignaffairs.gov.ie/information/display.asp?ID=867

http://www.newrepublicanforum.ie/IRIB/archive/domestic_archive/octoberDecember2003/articles/adamsAgreefinalclosure.htm

http://sinnfein.ie/peace/document/160

I'm not spending anymore time finding public information for you so you can fill the gaps yourself.

bertiebowl · 17-06-2004 3:16pm

SIGNED: Tauno Nieminen, John de Chastelain, Andrew D. Sens

Belfast 11 February, 2000

4 and 1/2 years ago? 54 months ago? One thousand six hundred days ago?

We got one small items of "decommissioning" (and remember even agreeing the speak to the decommissioning body was described as "decommissioning" by Tony Bliar's government.

What's happened since?

I'll tell you.

Gerry and Marty are still aiming the gun under the table at your goolies......

The Brigadier · 17-06-2004 3:33pm

Your most recent article is 2001....

I will not take articles from the New Republican Forum and SinnFein as proof of anything....

Sean1916 in a thread here attempted to prove that the Holocaust did not happen through similar spurious linkage...

It doesn't wash I am afraid....

But then there are links between Sinn Fein and the Nazis, wasn't Mary Lou at a Pro Nazi rally fairly recently? Didn't the IRA negotiate with Nazi germany during WWII

Mighty_Mouse · 17-06-2004 3:47pm

Lads, I probably shouldnt of bothered with the links because they were found after a very quick search. Just go a read the commission reports will ye?

bus77 · 17-06-2004 3:47pm

From what I remember It was the unionts that had the last word on decommissioning. Something about not being happy with the amout of imformation being given about the types and numbers of weapons.
The agreement from the beginning was that types and quantitys would not be made public.

Wrestlemania · 17-06-2004 4:09pm

Whoever voted sinn fein into europe and else where needs there head examing.

Why because clear and simple they are terrorist or has everyone forgot the 3000 dead people on this island.

fickle ireland, i hate the current government but rather give bertie the vote than sf/ira.

the dup have it right on this island.

people have short memories....and in south armagh and border area's there is still ira activity of all branches, why are the british army still mounting partols everyday.

On average when up there i see 4 to 6 patrols, so the war is not over but people still vote these cretans into power. hey we may aswell vote for the BNP aswell!

bus77 · 17-06-2004 4:28pm

Originally posted by The Brigadier
Sean1916 in a thread here attempted to prove that the Holocaust did not happen through similar spurious linkage...

It doesn't wash I am afraid....

But then there are links between Sinn Fein and the Nazis, wasn't Mary Lou at a Pro Nazi rally fairly recently? Didn't the IRA negotiate with Nazi germany during WWII

You want to bring up other threads and other posters?

A few months back there were massive train bombings in spain carried out by muslums.
A Spaniard came on boards saying he did a paper in college about the sepratist movement in Spain then went on to say he would'nt be supprised if it was ETA.
Later that day the president of spain came on tv stating that he knew it was ETA.

That spainish poster had learned ****all about republicans from doing his paper, and that spanish pm (who knew damn well what the score was) got what was coming to him in the elections.

And you have some neck bringing up Nazis and Holocaust's in this thread. There was a Holocaust in Ireland, It was called The Irish Famine and it wasnt a ****ing swastica flying over us that time.

The Brigadier · 17-06-2004 4:41pm

Little bit close to the bone there?

The point I was making is that you can come on here and quote all sorts of crap to try and prove a point.

Sean 1916 provided links "proving" there was no Holocaust....We know there was one..

Mighty Mouse can use all the links to Sinn Fein Websites he wants, they don't prove a thing...

Oh and you cannot compare the holocaust to the Irish Famine...

The holocaust was a deliberate act of genocide...The famine wasn't, it was simply the richer ruling classes acting in their own interests. Don't kid yourself that if the same thing had happened in England at the same time, there would not have been a holocaust.

We live in more enlightened times now thankfully, can you explain why Mary Lou is associating herself with Nazi groups now? (Not 100 years ago)

Mighty_Mouse · 17-06-2004 4:55pm

Mighty Mouse can use all the links to Sinn Fein Websites he wants, they don't prove a thing...

Have you completely lost the run of yourself man!!! We are not talking about disputable facts here. We are discussing whether de Chastelain has any problems with the IRA as far as decomissioning is concerned. He doesnt as outlined in his last speech after the IRAs last "significant" act of decommissioning.

We havent mentioned whether the Unionists have changed their mind about the decommissioning procedure yet. Simply whether the independant body with the responsibility for monitoring decommissioning has a problem with the IRA. They dont.

If you have de Chastelain on the record saying something different. I'd love to see it.

Ps
I'm struggling with your holocaust argument. Are you saying nothing is believable from any source? Are you saying that de Chastelain is in fact lying and that personally he is not happy ? Are you saying the IRA havent decommissioned? What exactly are you sayin here because I've lost track!!

the dup have it right on this island.

How exactly do the DUP have it right? I take it you dont agree with the GFA? (or cricket on a Sunday either?)

Didn't the IRA negotiate with Nazi germany during WWII

As far as I know the IRA wanted to get guns off the Nazi's to fight the Brits when they were weakest. I can understand both sides of the forthcoming argument but I think it was understandable given the circumstances.

bus77 · 17-06-2004 5:08pm

Originally posted by The Brigadier
We live in more enlightened times now thankfully, can you explain why Mary Lou is associating herself with Nazi groups now? (Not 100 years ago)

Yeah, no problem. Sinn Fein has gone in to coalition with a group of left wing partys from across europe. That's what other partys do in order to make their voice bigger over there. The only problem is because of the partys backround and left wing nature they dont have much choice in witch coalition they join. Hope that clears that up.

Originally posted by The Brigadier
The holocaust was a deliberate act of genocide...The famine wasn't, it was simply the richer ruling classes acting in their own interests. Don't kid yourself that if the same thing had happened in England at the same time, there would not have been a holocaust.

As far as Im concernd when the famine came to Ireland It was seen as a solution to the "Irish problem" and all that happend (or didnt happen) was policy. You can believe otherwise if you like.

earwicker · 17-06-2004 5:16pm

You can read General De Chastelian's statement here:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/3211878.stm

You can read the BBC analysis at:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/3208667.stm

This is from October 2003, and it was the third act of IRA decommissioning.

Sleepy · 17-06-2004 5:18pm

Originally posted by monument
Just because they don't agree with your, or other, economic views does not mean they are uninformed of them. I’d imagine they’re fully aware of right wing economics.

Just because someone can recognise their name when it's written down doesn't make them literate. Any economist, nay, anyone who's ever read an economic text book can tell you that marxism is a lovely ideal for lazy bums but a completely illogical and unworkable solution in real life.

monument · 17-06-2004 7:36pm

Originally posted by Sleepy
Any economist, nay, anyone who's ever read an economic text book can tell you that marxism is a lovely ideal for lazy bums but a completely illogical and unworkable solution in real life.

Economic textbooks based on right wing economics?

But, yeah, it’s nice to know a system that actually cares about people is illogical (whether it’s the homeless in Dublin, or the growing amount of poverty and hunger stricken regulars at the church soup kitchens in the US).

You told me who would tell me it is an ‘illogical and unworkable solution’, why didn’t you enlighten me, and tell me why?

jbkenn · 17-06-2004 9:49pm

You told me who would tell me it is an ‘illogical and unworkable solution’, why didn’t you enlighten me, and tell me why?

You could start here

The Democratic Peoples Republic of Korea

jbkenn

Victor · 17-06-2004 10:01pm

Originally posted by jbkenn
http://www.korea-dpr.com/

How ironic that it is a dotcom.

monument · 18-06-2004 12:42am

Any examples of democratic, libertarian (social), leftwing (economic) systems?...

Oh, no, wait a second - left wing systems are evil. Thank god, we had the Empire of the United States of America to save the world from the lefties. (Joking aside, part of me agrees with stopping any undemocratic, or social-authoritarian system)

bertiebowl · 18-06-2004 11:24am

An example of Spin Fein/IRA "policing techniques" from today's breaking news

Man shot in knees in Derry
18/06/2004 - 09:58:45

A man was taken to hospital in Derry last night with gunshot wounds to his knees.

The paramilitary-style attack on the 50-year-old took place at a house in Spittal Hill, Coleraine, at 11pm.

Meanwhile, the SDLP has condemned the beating of a man in South Armagh yesterday.

The 45-year-old was found on Sheetrim Road in Cullyhanna by fire crews who were called out to a burning car at 10am.

He had been beaten with clubs studded with nails, in what the PSNI described as a “barbaric” attack.

The man suffered two broken arms and legs and multiple injuries to his face and body.

SDLP Assembly member for Newry and Armagh Dominic Bradley said there were still some people who had no qualms about using violence.

“Had it not been for the fire brigade which extinguished the fire, he could have been burnt to death in his car,” he said.

“This has all the hallmarks of a paramilitary operation. I would call on all political parties to condemn this.”

The man, who was driving a silver-coloured car, had dropped his children off at Annaghmore Primary School in the Kiltybane area, when he was abducted in a second car. He remained in critical condition in the Royal Hospital in Belfast.

The PSNI said they were treating the attack as attempted murder.

Now can you understand why I would have difficulties voting Spin Fein?? Now can you see why I think all the genuine, honest and good intentions of the people who support SF will be corrupted while the current leadership tolerants this ambigious attitude towards human rights and the use of violence vs. democracy?

Spin Fein To Knee Cap Europe?

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