Columbia three just got released

Dub13

I just seen it on Sky News,no details yet.

Dub13

From the BBC

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/northern_ireland/3810741.stm


Irish trio leave Colombian jail

Three Irishmen acquitted of training Marxist rebels in Colombia have left jail, six weeks after their trial.
Niall Connolly, Martin McCauley and James Monaghan had been refusing to leave prison until the authorities offer guarantees for their safety.

The three, who had been accused of being IRA members, were found guilty of of travelling on false passports and have paid a fine for that offence.

It is not clear whether they are now free to leave Colombia and return home.


A judge has said that they should remain in the country pending an appeal by the prosecution against the verdict on the main charges.

But the Colombian government has proposed a deal under which they would be able to leave the country on payment of a bond, with the understanding they would return to serve a jail sentence, if they are found guilty by an appeal court.


McCauley, 41, is from Lurgan in County Armagh, Monaghan, 58, is from County Donegal and Connolly, 38, is from Dublin.


They were driven out of Modelo prison in the capital Bogota in two cars, under heavy police protection, late on Tuesday afternoon.

The three had been detained at Bogota's El Dorado airport in August 2001 as they were about to board a flight out of the country.

Their arrest led to speculation that Irish republicans had formed links with the Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia (Farc).

The main charge against them was that they had been teaching the rebels the techniques of urban terrorism.

The Irishmen strenuously denied this, saying they were in the area to monitor the fledgling peace process as well as being eco-tourists.

ReefBreak

I eagerly await their articles in the next issue of Birdwatching Monthly.

KdjaCL

If they live that long ,seeminlgy they aint expected to leave the country alive.
Im sure they will get a private charted flight out.

kdjac

Morpheus

Why were they travelling on false passports...

Simple: They were on a covert operation or assignment.

The only people who go to this bother are usually being covert for a reason, now either they are working for a govt agency here (military intelligence "G2" or Garda Special Branch "C3") or they are working for a subvertive group, IRA, RIRA, etc.

I hope the Government here will look harshly on the fact that they were using FAKE passports, surely a chargable offence against the state?

Mighty_Mouse

I hope the Government here will look harshly on the fact that they were using FAKE passports, surely a chargable offence against the state?

How is using false identification in Columbia an offence against the Irish state?

Why were they travelling on false passports...

As convicted felons to avoid the hassle of travelling on their own passports.

uberwolf

Is it standard practice for the state to loan people bail money? Does this apply to foreign cases only? High profile people? or terror suspects only with stated IRA links?

Mighty_Mouse

Should the Irish state not do everything it can to help innocent Irish men return home. They've been there for 3years already!!

uberwolf

they were found guilty of some charges = not innocent.

I do agree however that the Irish state should act to safeguard its citizens in situations like this innocent or guilty. However I didn't think they did do this and wondered what was special about this case...

Sleipnir

Originally posted by Mighty_Mouse
Should the Irish state not do everything it can to help innocent Irish men return home. They've been there for 3years already!!

They're about as innocent as Brian Curtain.
it's amazing how some try to have the "they were only looking around" stuffed down the public's throat.

Give us some credit, we're not stupid.

Mighty_Mouse

They're about as innocent as Brian Curtain

Come on!! They didn't "get off" on a technicality!!!! FFS

Give us some credit, we're not stupid

At the end of the day I feel that its an outrage that Irish citizens are being treated in this manner.

Sleipnir

at the end of the day, they took a chance and lost.

Really, if you don't want to take the chance of being detained in Bogata, the most dangerous city in the world, don't travel on false documents and chat with rebels about the weather.

If you commit crimes in a country you should be tried under that country's laws.
They just happened to be in a very bad country for that sort of thing.
But, again, that's their own fault.

Morpheus

They were hardly using fake columbian passports!!! all the same point taken, i assumed they were fake irish passports. They shouldnt have been travelling as previously convicted terrorists (2 of them anyway) they dont have that right due to their own decisions they made in the past. These things follow u through life. its called a "criminal record" i believe.

Why would 3 men (2 of them) previously caught and exposed as explosive engineers while working for an illegal terrorist organisation, be travelling around talking with FARC guerillas and expect to get away with "I was only tryng to tell them how bad war is" as an excuse?

Mighty_Mouse

They shouldnt have been travelling as previously convicted terrorists (2 of them anyway) they dont have that right due to their own decisions they made in the past. These things follow u through life. its called a "criminal record" i believe.

people with a criminal record dont have a right to travel? wow. Thats harsh! And there was me thinking that if you did the time.................

Why would 3 men (2 of them) previously caught and exposed as explosive engineers while working for an illegal terrorist organisation, be travelling around talking with FARC guerillas and expect to get away with "I was only tryng to tell them how bad war is" as an excuse?

It doesnt matter what you, I or anybody else thinks. They beat these charges. They were found innocent so should be brought home.

uberwolf

Originally posted by Mighty_Mouse
people with a criminal record dont have a right to travel? wow. Thats harsh! And there was me thinking that if you did the time...

point is if you have been previously convicted for terrorist crimes and then you feel the need to hide your identity to continue associations with terrorist groups you have it coming. They can travel, but no one is allowed travel with fake passports. You're conveniently ignoring they were convicted of a crime.

swiss

There are a few issues at play here. The first, and most obvious issue is the Colombian justice system. Leaving aside what the Colombian 3 were actually doing in Colombia they were convicted of travelling under false passports, and IIRC another relatively trivial offence. Does this offence merit a 3 year sentence? Is everyone convicted of this offence receive this 3 year penalty?

These men are indeed IRA terrorists, but they are also Irish citizens and as such deserved the support of our embassy. What such support have they received? From what I can tell, very little. From this I can draw two conclusions. Either embassy officials could do nothing for these men, which makes them ineffectual or else they could, but chose not to because of their connections. Neither case is particularly satisfactory.

The second issue is whether these men deserved this sentence in the more traditional sense of the term 'justice'. Now, you, I and the dogs in the street know that these men were doing more than simply chit chatting with the local terrorist groups and observing the lovely weather. However, since they were not convicted of the more serious offences with which they were charged, this raises serious questions over whether their affiliation with the IRA influenced thier punishment, regardless of the specific crimes over which they were convicted.

If this was indeed the case, then I would be more disposed to blame the Colombian government as opposed to our own (although they don't remain blameless either). Although I do find a delicious irony in the SF/IRA leadership berating a justice system that involves punishing people without their being convicted of the specific crime with which they were being punished.

Mighty_Mouse

Although I do find a delicious irony in the SF/IRA leadership berating a justice system that involves punishing people without their being convicted of the specific crime with which they were being punished.

I take it your referring to internment/Birmingham 6/Guilford 4 etc etc etc

Victor

Originally posted by swiss
These men are indeed IRA terrorists, but they are also Irish citizens and as such deserved the support of our embassy. What such support have they received? From what I can tell, very little. From this I can draw two conclusions. Either embassy officials could do nothing for these men, which makes them ineffectual or else they could, but chose not to because of their connections. Neither case is particularly satisfactory.

So the next time me and my mates get trollied in Spain, we can rely on the embassy for bail moeny? It's not like drunk and disorderly is such a bad offence that they would hold it against us, is it?

swiss

Originally posted by Victor:

So the next time me and my mates get trollied in Spain, we can rely on the embassy for bail moeny? It's not like drunk and disorderly is such a bad offence that they would hold it against us, is it?

Not in that case, no. However, if you were being held in a manner which you felt was unjust, or if you were incarcerated for reasons other than those for which you were convicted, then I think it is reasonable to assume that your embassy will at least look into the circumstances of the incarceration and - if found to be unjust or contrary to the laws of that country - make representations to secure your release.

I'm somewhat between two minds about those three however. Part of me is glad 3 terrorist thugs got off the streets for a few years. However, it sets a dangerous precedent when Irish citizens travel to another country get imprisoned for lengths of time that is not commensurate with the crime with which they have been convicted. For that reason I am disposed to call shenannigans on the Colombian government.

There is one other explanation. Perhaps they served their sentence in full, and the remainder of the time they spent in prison was while they waited for their case to be heard. In that event I thought it was customary practice to begin the sentence from the time they were initially imprisoned and charged with an offence, but this may not be a policy in the Colombian justice system.

Victor

Originally posted by swiss
There is one other explanation. Perhaps they served their sentence in full, and the remainder of the time they spent in prison was while they waited for their case to be heard. In that event I thought it was customary practice to begin the sentence from the time they were initially imprisoned and charged with an offence, but this may not be a policy in the Colombian justice system.

Time spent in prison before sentencing is being taken into account as best I know

Sleipnir

Originally posted by Mighty_Mouse
people with a criminal record dont have a right to travel? wow. Thats harsh! And there was me thinking that if you did the time.................

It doesnt matter what you, I or anybody else thinks. They beat these charges. They were found innocent so should be brought home.

People with a criminal record have the right to travel and nobody has disputed that.
But these "ex" terrorists were travelling illegally i.e. on false travel documentation.
Is that clear yet?

On your second point,
They were found guilty of travelling on false documents so they shouldn't come home, they should be tried under Columbian law.
They were not found innocent of all charges.

If a Columbian was caught travelling in Ireland on false documentation they would be tried under Irish law.

Wrestlemania

If I were them and got the chance I would try and leg it home and deal with the consequences here as they are in danger no matter what they did.

KdjaCL

I dont think the embassy should bail these guys out ,i dont like the idea of my tax dollars saving terrorists.
As victor said if we were detained in any country for whatever reason we wouldnt get bailed out.

But as this is high profile and the lads lives are in danger they get special treatment.
Personally they playing with fire if they get burned its their own fault. Like Bogota has yet to win safest city award but doubt they feel aggreived about it.

kdjac

Sleipnir

Originally posted by Wrestlemania
If I were them and got the chance I would try and leg it home and deal with the consequences here as they are in danger no matter what they did.

They're a bit too famous to get throught ports & airports at this stage.
Plus they don't have any travel docs.

Mighty_Mouse

People with a criminal record have the right to travel and nobody has disputed that.

Is this not disputing it?:

They shouldnt have been travelling as previously convicted terrorists (2 of them anyway) they dont have that right due to their own decisions they made in the past. These things follow u through life. its called a "criminal record" i believe.

i dont like the idea of my tax dollars saving terrorists.

former terrorists?

i.e. on false travel documentation.Is that clear yet?

Crystal.

But Living in fear of your life for three years. Having senior political columbian officials citing you as guilty during your case. Trapped in the same jail for three years and facing another possible five years while the Columbians appeal your innocent verdict is harsh for a fake passport IMO

Sleipnir

Originally posted by Mighty_Mouse
Is this not disputing it?: former terrorists?

i.e. on false travel documentation.Is that clear yet?

Crystal. But Living in fear of your life for three years. Having senior political columbian officials citing you as guilty during your case. Trapped in the same jail for three years and facing another possible five years while the Columbians appeal your innocent verdict is harsh for a fake passport IMO.

Former terrorists? Once a terrorist, always a terrorist.
Just because it happened a long time away doesn't detract from the fact that they were terrorists.

"

Trapped in the same jail for three years and facing another possible five years while the Columbians appeal your innocent verdict is harsh for a fake passport IMO.

That would largely depend on WHY they were travelling on false passports.
Harsh? Good. I hope it's a harsh as the IRA have been in the past.

Protesting their innocence, and 'frightened' of the nasty Columbian prisons..... makes me sick.
They didn't mind joining a terrorist group that killed many innocent civilians so if they're now feeling half as bad as those who lost loved ones, they're getting their just-desserts.

I hope they stay in a columbian jail and rot there.

Mighty_Mouse

Once a terrorist, always a terrorist

from the fact that they were terrorists

Ooops looks like you used past tense there!

That would largely depend on WHY they were travelling on false passports.

They've already been cleared on these charges

Protesting their innocence, and 'frightened' of the nasty Columbian prisons..... makes me sick

Have a quick read. I'm not saying you will change your beliefs but at least they'll be informed opinions.
http://www.bringthemhome.ie/storysofar_1.htm

and the main page:
http://www.bringthemhome.ie/index.htm

Sleipnir

I've seen that site before and I won't go there again as they probably use the number of hits as a "look how much support we have and honestly, the prison couldn't be bad enough, in my opinion.


So why were they travelling on false documentation, if what they were doing was beyond reproach? Come on, tell me what honest thing they were doing which required false passports.
What reason did they have?

uberwolf

Originally posted by Mighty_Mouse
They've already been cleared on these charges

Wrong.

They have been found guilty of crimes and have served the time for those crimes, they have also paid fines for those crimes.

http://breaking.tcm.ie/2004/06/17/story152693.html

So these are not innocent men. Stop telling yourself and others that they are.



Whats more to say there terrorist acts are in their past is a little too convenient. Blood stays on your hands. Consider three convicted arsonists that break into your house to meet with other arsonists. Would you happy to leave the house knowing they had petorl and matches? Scale up and you have the clombia three. You may think its desperatlely unfair that their past actions are stlll used to judge them. But reality bites doesn't it. Much as it bites every time the families of their victims and IRA victims in general wake up and pass an empty bedroom.

Mighty_Mouse

Seeing as you won't go there!!!!!!!!:

as known republicans McCauley and Monaghan could only travel, without harassment, to such places on false documents. Connolly said that as a Cuban resident he could not safely travel in the region without using false documents.

The FARC commander, Raul Reyes, has told ITN television that the men met him for political discussions. Its senior commander, Marulanda, has claimed that the arrests of the three Irish men are part of an attempt by the Colombian military to destroy the peace process in that country.

The IRA has stated that it did not send any of its members to Colombia to engage in military co-operation with any group. Read statment>>>

The Colombian government has confirmed that one of the stated objectives of the demilitarisation zone was to encourage and allow international organisations, governments and individuals to visit the FARC for political
discussions.

It is a commitment contained in the accords agreed between the FARC and the Colombian government of President Pastrana earlier this year.Paragraph 9 of the Joint Agreement on the Peace Process signed at Los Pozos by the Colombian and FARC - EP in February 2001 states;

"Understanding the importance of the international community to the success of the peace process in Colombia, we are inviting representatives of friendly countries and international organisations to come on 8 March so that we can inform them about the state and progress of the process and encourage their collaboration. The National Dialogue and Negotiation Table will determine how often these meetings will take place."

The high profile arrests coincided with a critical phase in the Colombian and Irish peace processes.
In Colombia, the demilitarised zone was extended until January 2002 following diccusions between the government and FARC. This was agreed despite clear pressures from the Colombian army, recently re-armed with sophisticated weapons under the US financed $1.3 billion Plan Colombia, and which does not want a peace process when it believes that it can achieve a military victory over the FARC. Recent events in Colombia have confirmed that the peace process in that country is under severe pressure..

Theres obviously a lot more information if you care to read. But hey who said knowledge was power?

Sleipnir

as known republicans

See? That's there spin. "As known terrorists" would be truthful.

The IRA has stated that it did not send any of its members to Colombia to engage in military co-operation with any group.

Oh well, if the IRA said it, it must be true

The Colombian government has confirmed that one of the stated objectives of the demilitarisation zone was to encourage and allow international organisations, governments and individuals to visit the FARC for political

Possibly the Columbian government didn't mean it was okay for terrorists to travel on false passports for this reason.

Also, I doubt they meant representatives of illegal terrorist organisations!!!!

I mean, how can they use
"they said it was okay for international organisations to come"
as a fcuking defence!?!!?