The Greens and SF: The same thing?

PH01

Just looking at a couple of figures from the locals and there seems to be a pattern of transfers from SF to Greens, and vise versa.
Can we say that these two parties are the same bed fellows?

eoinm

most certainly not.

i'd say there is a certain transfer of protest votes, and perhaps a lefty economic outlook. but ideologically etc. they are poles apart.

arcadegame2004

They are both parties of the far-left (SF wants to raise corporation-tax - a crazy idea which would drive multinationals from these shores). They are the only Eurosceptic parties in the Dail. So I suppose their supporters feel that transferring between each other helps further their political outlooks, at least on some issues.

Mighty_Mouse

SF wants to raise corporation-tax - a crazy idea which would drive multinationals from these shores).

yes. lets breast feed forever. lets not even slightly increse our corporation tax and be confident enough that our investment in education and other competitve factors are enough to maybe even encourage multinationals to be tied to the country. Also lets always consider multinationals as an international concept and refuse to change our mindest to one where Irish companies with enough support can become the future multinationals of the world.

No lets allow tax free profits, and longterm unstability as long as inward investment in solid forget about devestated country towns whose mother milk multinational decided to feck off after 10 years.

arcadegame2004

Mighty_Mouse, the old days of protecting Irish industry behind a wall of tariff-barriers are NOT something this country needs or wants to return to, thank you very much.

Meh

Originally posted by Mighty_Mouse
Also lets always consider multinationals as an international concept and refuse to change our mindest to one where Irish companies with enough support can become the future multinationals of the world.

And how is higher corporation tax going to help Irish companies? They pay corporation tax as well, you know.

No lets allow tax free profits, and longterm unstability as long as inward investment in solid forget about devestated country towns whose mother milk multinational decided to feck off after 10 years.

And how is higher corporation tax supposed to keep them here?

DeVore

Greens not noted for kneecapping nor protection rackets to fund political campaigns.

DeV.

spongebob

Originally posted by DeVore
Greens not noted for kneecapping

Ooooooh dunno, have you ever met a Vegan

M

AngelofFire

Nah the greens would be less economically liberal but more socially liberal than sinn fein. The greens were the only party complaining about counter terrorism measures being too high handed strangely enough.The greens are pro waste charges and sinn fein are anti waste charges.

Time Magazine

Originally posted by arcadegame2004
They are both parties of the far-left

I'd say SF are actually extreme Right. And I wouldn't call the Greens "Far" Left.

mike65

They're not the same but they have enough in common to draw from the same well of voters esp in Dublin among the young and disaffecting, er disaffected.



Mike.

arcadegame2004

I'd say SF are actually extreme Right. And I wouldn't call the Greens "Far" Left.

SF far-right?!??! I don't think so! They oppose privatisation, they want to raise corporation-taxes. In fact their policy is that a 32-county Irish Republic should be Socialist. Gerry Adams has stated in the media over the years, even since the GFA, that he wants a 32-county Socialist republic. Socialism is by definition a platform of the Left.

Sand

I think he means right as in "bad, evil, not acceptable, unreasonable". Whereas left, would be "good, fair, correct, reasonable".

arcadegame2004

LOL those definitions should be swapped in my opinion, at least in industrial and economic policy.

Cork

Originally posted by Sand
I think he means right as in "bad, evil, not acceptable, unreasonable". Whereas left, would be "good, fair, correct, reasonable".

What tax rates are either SF or the Green Party in favour of?

40%, 50% 90%?

There partys policies are pretty much of a post stamp variety.

Where are they alternative policies with regrards to our economy, health orsocial welfare?

Sand

And breathe,

I was just making the point that left=good and right=evil when it comes to identifying what wing a party is on for some people, regardless of actual policies. So a left wing party that could be described as evil would be right wing and so on. Read up on your history, its all there.

gaelic cowboy

I say Greens are just as bad as SF so they don't have a private army they were happy to stand on the same platforms last year protesting about the war. Why was no one disgusted to see the like's of labours Ivanna Bacik and SF along with greenies toopeople harping on about the Iraq war on radio, telly. They way I see it Greens are a crowd of deluded US hateing free enterprise stiffling crowd of ejits the sooner there dumped the better.

Time Magazine

I don't associate the Right with evil and the Left with good. I, myself, would be quite Right-wing, at least in the economic sense. There is more to the Left/Right divide than economics. There is also the aspect of policy. I see Sinn Féin as a form of Fascism, essentially. Think about it, look at the similarities
-private army,
-ardent nationalism,
-undertones of the great right "our people" have of an area of land
-connections to international paramilitaries
-in the grass-roots, vigilantéism and organised prostitution
-scare-mongering tactics
-calls for release of "political" murderers
-Promise of being radical, the "only radical choice"

Gerry Adams is smart. He knows that if he puts on a anti-racism face and denies any paramilitary connections and calls for a Europe of equals he's going to get the working-class vote. Let's be realistic, there is no way socialism would ever come into Ireland look at the alliance with EU, WTO, the US, the power IBEC hold and complete captialist mind-frame in the country at the moment. We're not a socialist state and we never will be, not least because socialism has not and will not work. I think Sinn Féin have put on a face of Left-wing politics purely for politics. They're far too close to Extreme Right for me to believe that they are actually Left.

With regards the Greens, I think they're a lovely bunch of people with ideas that we could use (I'm all for protection of environment) but I'm against they're €uro policy and economics in general. I'd love a socially-minded capitalist Green party!

Cork

Both SF and the Greens favour the raising of capital gains tax. This will lead to higher house prices as it will act as a disincentive for investment owners to sell.

It will also lead to less FDI coming into Ireland.

SF and the Greens have never even spelt out what tax rates they would like for Irish tax payers.

40%, 50% 95%? Who knows?

gom

As for who votes Green and who votes SF...

From looking at the transfers I think that Green voters transfer to SF. But SF don't neccessarily transfer to Greens. Why is this I do not know? I could take a guess which I can easily see some object to. Greens generally catch alot of votes from the children of Middle-income families. SF catch alot of Lower-income family votes. Both parties have an air of anti-establishment and Pro-Citizen about them. Perhaps this is why SF did so well

bonkey

Originally posted by Sand
I was just making the point that left=good and right=evil when it comes to identifying what wing a party is on for some people, regardless of actual policies.

Yes, and teh response was pointing out that you can swap the words "left" and "right" in that sentence, and it remains perfectly true. I always get great amusement watching people of any political leaning trying to construe either of these descriptions as derogatives.

But lets not get sidetracked here.

As for SF and the Greens being the same thing? Sure they are. Thats why SF have such a high priority in ecological issues.

And as for Cork's ramblings.....they're just seeking (as usual) to show why neither party is as good as FF, rather than addressing the question asked.

jc