Intoxicating Liquor act

AngelofFire

Yes we all like to sit back read our indo or our ireland on sunday and say that Michael Mcdowell is doing a great job at solving the problem with binge drinking.
After all Centre right rhetoric is the only way to go about it we should rule out everything else cos its silly:rolleyes:

What he has done so far

1. Changed the equal status act-its now ok to descriminate against race,skin colour, age(even if one is an adult whos not intoxicated), when it comes to being served alcohol.Cos descrimination is supposed to make the streets safer.I cannot get served in superquinn or the point depot despite the fact that i am 20 even tho ive never being arrested for being drunk nor been taken to hospital. This is based on the grossly false assumption that binge drinkers are only people in the 18-21 age bracket.

2.Banned happy hour-People can no longer avail of drink at a cheaper price, this was also brought in to make the "streets safer".A night out is now a lot more expensive,it cannot be good for the tourist industry either.

3.Increased the price of a pint-supposed to turn people off drink, Just makes a night out a bit more expensive.The increased taxation isnt going towards anything constructive either.

4.Moved thursday closing time back to 11:30.A lot of entertainment held in pubs on thursday nights had to be cancelled because of restricted opening hours.Ireland is supposed to have a "vibrant nightlife", this cannot be good for tourism either.

Lets be honest with ourselfs has this made a difference to the safety on our streets or changed the culture of binge drinking.I accept the fact that there is a terrible drink problem in this country but putting sanctions on everybody because of the actions of a minority of binge drinkers is wrong i think.The answer is not more stupid rules but more sensible rules and less stupid rules.



Alternatives
1.Any tax hikes put on the price of drink should go towards something sensible. eg. Developing social facilities for the youth keeping them away from drink, investing in educating all children between the ages of 11-15 about the dangers of alcohol,Support for families and indviduals affected by alcoholism.

2.There should be an increase in CCTV around urban areas at nighttime and police patroling the streets at closing times to prevent fights from breaking out-It works wonders in the netherlands.

3.Alcohol advertising should not be allowed before 9pm all ads should carry a health warning"enjoy this product sensibly".A tax should be placed on alcohol advertising to be used for reasons i mentioned in 1.There should be more adds like the diageo dont see a great night wasted add on the television.

4.It should be obligatory for all drinks companies to have stamped on their products "enjoy sensibly" similar warnings should be stamped on pint glasses etc.Pressure should be put on publicans to lower the price of non alcoholic beverages such as coke and mineral water.

5.Maintain liberal opening hours to improve the quality of nightlife in dublin but also sell licences to premises who encourage activities other than drinking. Cafe bars,Restaurants etc.
No one over the age of 18 should be refused alchol provided they produce the relevant ID and are not already intoxicated.

A lot of people will disagree with me i kno. But id like to hear everyone elses opinion.

halkar

Year 2010: Newsflash. Ireland becomes the first country to ban drinking in the public places

Ajnag

Illegal drugs are now cheaper then alcohol and also the private party scene associated with drugs has no curfew unlike pubs.

Wayda go FF/PD's

And they wonder why more and more people and young are doing drugs :rolleyes:


A fiver will get ya a pill or a pint, which do you choose If you havent been privy to Irelands recent success?

flogen

I agree with your alternatives, angel, they would all do wonders, but I think you're taking 'what has been done' the wrong way.

When it comes to selling drink, you will either get it or you wont. Everyone knows that whatever the law says, doormen will refuse you if they want to, for any reason... 'were full', 'not tonight' etc etc. I dont think you should just let anyone over 18 into a pub, or allow them to buy alcohol just like that. Firstly, does that mean a complete scumbag who you know is gonna cause trouble, should be served just because he's not drunk?? Many pubs would be destroyed if they had to serve everyone, while I dont like snooty pubs, I dont like danks either, and I'm sure the pubs I do go to have a policy on not letting complete trash in (or tosser snobs).

to say that banning happy hour makes the night more expensive is abit wierd, I dont know of any pub that had a late night happy hour! The idea is to encourage people to buy drink when they wouldnt normally, i.e. during the day. I'm happy the ban is in, Irish people don't need to be encouraged to drink (if you want to drink in the day time, you will). And I dont think it will effect tourism too much, again, its the day time, tourists would be more likely to sight see in the day, go out at night.

I dont mind my night being a few euro more expensive if I know it is going somewhere, I agree that alcohol tax should be put into youth programmes and detox clinics, I'm sure some of it is, I just dont know exactly how much.

The thursday night thing has pissed me off before, but i can see the reasoning. Its not a weekend night, so why would the pubs stay open that late? what has happened before was people would go out on thursday, get locked and not go to work/college on friday because its the end of the week anyway. This hasnt cured the problem, but im sure its helped

Flogen

AngelofFire

I agree that premises should use discretion when it comes to everyone. But nowhere should be able to have an over 21s policy. its a bit stupid.

flogen

yeah, it was a shame to see the over 21's rule being allowed to come back in, I think an 18 year old is as likely to be a pain as a 22 year old, if your a yob, 3 or 4 years are unlikely to change that.

Flogen

Tommy Vercetti

tbh there are a lot of 18 year olds who haven't grown up, and likewise many 16 or 17 year olds who are capable of enjoying a drink without going mad. McDowell is a twat, we need to completely liberalise pub opening hours i.e. 24 hours in some areas if that's what the pub chooses, the novelty will soon wear off and we'd all go home happy in the knowledge that we can go back for more whenever we choose to. Obviously residents nearby should play a major role.

Time Magazine

Aw, I thought this was going to about Cumann na nGaedheal and W. T. Cosgrave .

flogen

I dont know about 24 hour pubs, its worked elsewhere, but other places dont have the problems we do... I think more garda presence is vital, from feedback during a college project people said they rarely saw police on the streets at closing time, and many didnt like the idea of 24 hour pubs.

I'd say we sort out the problem we have now, by getting more police on the streets and better enforcement, once we're somewhere regulated as regards street violence, then we should look at hours liberalisation. I just see pubs being open longer as a way of people getting the chance to drink more, and the slight possibility of drunken behavior being a problem all the time, while it will stop hundreds pouring onto the streets at once, it wont stop people coming out of pubs locked and acting up, it might encourage it.

Oh, and thats true about responsible 16 year olds, which is why I would hate to see doormen lose their discresion, while it can be a pain in the ass some times, they do stop the morons from getting in (alot of the time), and in the decent places are quick enough to sort out anyone that 'slipped through'

Flogen

DublinWriter

I hate to be the one to break this to you, but cancel your newsflash of 2010 - drinking in public places is already illegal in this country as in from about two years ago, thanks to one of the Mad Mullah's usual looney laws.

The law is rarely invoked and used only at the discretion of the gardì. It was brought in to stop kids drinking on street corners, etc. But technically, go for a picnic in your local park, crack open de aul vino, and you're breaking the law of Ireland, just like a pedophile or someone who throws a cigarette butt out their car window.

The recommendations of the Dail 'Task Force' on alcohol abuse delivered last week were risable and a complete joke.

As usual, they came out with the old slap more taxes on alcho-pops sh*te.

How much imagination do you need to think up something like that? As long as it doesn't cost the government anything and it yields more money for the government, then thumbs-up lads.

The result will be kids will just go into harder and cheaper stuff like Vodka and Whiskey.

We needed to be treated like adults in this country. Didn't FF learn anything from their recent kicking? Are they stupid enough to wait until 2007 when they get an even harder kicking?

What we need is a decent programme of education in schools. But oh-no. That costs money lads, and we have Equstrian Centre's to build for our friends and Jackie Healy Rae to placate.

Funnily enough, the two countries with the worse drink problems in Europe are Ireland and the UK. And guess which two countries have the strictest licencing laws?

I think we need to have a more liberal approach such as Germany/Beligum have. No licences for pubs, they can stay open 24 X 7. Increased competition, and no hoards of people hitting the steets at closing time.

Harney I begrudgingly like, but I think McDowell is a thundering disgrace. FF are waking up to the fact that they bought a 'pup'.

Can't you just hear the famous knives of FF being unsheathed?

My prediction is that Bertie will re-shuffle him out, McDowell will but pressure on Harney and the PDs will walk. I wouldn't be surprised if we have a general election at the end of this year.

bonkey

Originally posted by AngelofFire
all ads should carry a health warning"enjoy this product sensibly".

This (and its repeated incarnation further down the suggestions) was the only alternative that struck me as a joke. I don't necessarily agree with all of the others (e.g. I'm unconvinced about CCTV - see below), but come on....adding public health warnings???

I would imagine that if McDowell had introduced this as a concept, it would get listed in the "What he has done so far" as a spectacular waste of government money etc that could have been more intelligently spent on useful education.

Maybe I'm way off track, but every time people talk about such warnings, or about increasing the size of existing warnings (as happened on ciggies) I keep thinking of the Denis Leary rant about exactly this (regarding ciggies). I'm sure a quick google will provide the text somewhere.

Seriously - how many people who drink are not aware that :

a) Consuming enough alcohol in a short enough time-period makes you drunk
b) Being drunk impairs your abilities, and thus your ability to be "sensible".

I mean...seriously....do you know anyone who would actually look at one of those warnings and be effected by it in such a way that they'd stop and think "no, wait, I should be sensible and not have this extra pint, because there's a warning on this empty bottle / beermat / the ad on the wall / something I saw on TV last night".

Oh - and while I wouldn't call the CCTV suggestion a joke, I would say that the case for CCTV is far from clear-cut. There are - from what I recall last reading about it - as many failure-stories as success-stories out there in terms of what it has done. Realistically, though....I would imagine that people who are drunk - and thus who have their judgement impaired - are the least likely to actually consider CCTV as a deterrant when it comes to the moment of truth.

If McDowell had introduced mandatory CCTV all around the country, on the pretext of it curbing out drinking problem.....I'm willing to bet it would be on your list of examples of how bad a job he's done - from the issues of cost, the Big Brother element, and the fact that its hard to continue selling something as a tourist attraction when its "a vibrant nightlife that we've made safe enough to enjoy from the scumbags who we admit are a problem, as long as you remember to remain within the Big Brother Zone".

Seriously....not all he's done is bad...and I'm pretty sure you (or someone else here) would be heaping scorn on him had he implemented some of the suggestions in the alternative list.

AngelofFire

What i meant is that CCTV should be placed in the vicinitys of nightclubs and pubs in large urban districts such as temple bar.That way cops could monitor the situation and respond quickly if a fight breaks out.I am not calling for cameras to be placed everywhere. And no i wouldnt scorn michael mcdowell had he implemented similar policies to the ones i had suggested.

The reason why i am condemning his policies is because they are nothing but rhetoric and put sanctions on everybody because of the actions of a few.E.G. why should thursday nights be restricted for everyone just because a minority of people decide to pull a sickie.

Young Brian murphy wasn`t beaten to death because alchopops weren`t taxed highly enough, it was because there was no police presence outside annabels at closing time.

chewy

ye hear of the great pub boycott... and stuff....

and ticketbastard thingys but i on't know what you cna do about its harder to shop around with pubs cos like your mate invites you to the pub you're not going to say no im not going there im trying to rebut the intoxiquator liquor act

Explosive_Cornflake

Originally posted by chewy
ye hear of the great pub boycott... and stuff....

and ticketbastard thingys but i on't know what you cna do about its harder to shop around with pubs cos like your mate invites you to the pub you're not going to say no im not going there im trying to rebut the intoxiquator liquor act

ehhh..... were you drunk writing that....

simu

Some ideas:

If pubs played music a bit lower so that people could actually talk rather than having to shout all the time, they might drink less. Of course, this would also mean loss of revenue for pubs so it probably won't happen. They should also have quieter rooms in clubs where you can go and chat with people and sit down - most people in Ireland won't dance unless they're drunk and there's not much else you can do in a lot of clubs.

Maybe they should also encourage bars to sell snacks like the tapas bars in Spain - people would drink a bit less and the food would soak up some of the drink. From the queues I've seen outside dodgy chippers at weekends, it's clear that people are willing to buy snacks on a night out plus many bars do actually sell food during the day so they already have the facilities.

They could also sell tasty, cheap, non-alcoholic cocktails in pubs rather than just boring old coke and 7up for people who don't want to drink alcohol all night. So if you're getting a bit drunk but want another drink, you could get one of these to quench your thirst and give your body a chance to deal with the alcohol you've already consumed.

These alone wouldn't solve Irelands drink problem but might cause a small change for the better.

therecklessone

Originally posted by simu


Maybe they should also encourage bars to sell snacks like the tapas bars in Spain - people would drink a bit less and the food would soak up some of the drink. From the queues I've seen outside dodgy chippers at weekends, it's clear that people are willing to buy snacks on a night out plus many bars do actually sell food during the day so they already have the facilities.

Good idea in principle.

Problem is that the snacks would more than likely be cheap, nasty, heavily-salted stodge intended to make you want to drink more not less...

I like the idea about the non-alcoholic cocktails.

Explosive_Cornflake

Ho ho, imagine what they would charge for a non alcholic cocktail. I think there should be something done about the insane price of soft drinks. Enough has been said about it before, but.... ya' know yourself.
I find it hard to go out and not drink a pint of beer. Tried orange juice a few times, but the price, its madness.
Haven't been to the pub in weeks now, thats odd.
I sound like a right old alco from that post.... :rolleyes:

DublinWriter

We need to be treated like adults. You could die from poisoning if you take enough vitamin C tables. The same with water if you drink enough in a short space of time.

"Jaysus I was going to get totally off me t*ts and knock the missus around until I read the warning label on the bottle of vodka"

Oh please. Warning labels are just a lazy cop-out recommendation by these little task-force quangos.

I agree re the music in pubs. Some of the best pubs in the world are the UK Weathspoon chain - they don't allow any music in their pubs at all. Some of the smaller Bristish pubs are also really great and always offer stuff from local brewaries.

I was disappointed when Weatherspoons pulled the plug on opening their first pub in Dublin.

Pubs in this country are over-rated and overpriced.

Anyone see the big billboard on the Howth road put up by the Vintners Federation? It was a picture of young-ish people, laughing and joking in their local pub (and not smoking of course). The text underneath was "Irish pubs - the best in the world". Someone scribbled out 'best' and wrote in 'the most expensive'.

I'm not sure if it's still there - but it made me laugh when stuck in traffic.

chewy

places to hang around at night....... pubs and er pubs....

how many cafes are open late at night in dublin, walk through town some night and you'll see how many cafes close at night bout 7


there can only be handful that stay open till late... whats the name of tha cahin the has a few can anyone suggest others...

you might want to just go out and meet your friends for a while but the only "public" venues are pubs....

wanted to have informal indymedia meetings at one point so said meet at pub post work time bout 6:30... but then somebody pointed out that that would exclude pepole under 18 i mean aa 14 yr old should be able to come to an indymedia meeting
just an example you know what i mean


i thought the too major differences bewt us the the continnet is the wine drinking getting used to it thing...

and that the drink at home more, like have house parties more then we do althougth its increasing here..