Anti Bush March

Hobbes

Originally posted by MadsL
The jump from American foreign policy to "Americans" is easy but a dangerous generalisation.

Actually that sort of jump works great for the US. Because they can say "Hey look at them, they hate you, don't look at what we are doing they are blaming you!". Same princible on crying anti-semite.

Morpheus

Im sorry, but this whole justify the campaign as anti globalisation or anti capitalism stinks to high heaven.

Now in truth, there is a genuine animal hatred for Bush and a growing sense of anti americanism among the "anti" community, its a shame, but ive witnessed it talking some of the less rational anti war people.

And before you slate me, yes, there are many intelligent members among the AWM who are very articulate and have extremely valid points. They understand the geo politics, they have done their research, they have formed opinions based on what THEY believe to be true and argue them well, but what about the other type of AWM people?

you know them, the masses of the un-informed??
the members of the selective hearing brigade?
The ones who hear what they want to and argue on those points alone and disagree almost violently to what is said contrary?

These muppeteers will fcuk up the protest, they will be joined by flagon waving gobsh!tes who will try to incite another may day incident, the extremists will be present, i honestly cant see it passing off peacefully, i hope it does, but im afraid i see trouble.

My final standing is that a national representative of the people of the United States is coming here and he should be accorded the respect the people of his nation deserve from us.

By afronting him in his capcity of representing his country, you afront every american alive today, how would we feel if we turned over to Boston on Paddys day and Bertie was being protested at by americans who were waving anti irish themed anti bertie posters? I know ID be pi$$ed.

therecklessone

Originally posted by gaelic cowboy
I'm talking about the organisers of the marches here not the marchers. If your oganising one I of course do not personally mean you are anti American for all I know you are American. However Sinn Fein on the same platform as the Peace and Neutrality Alliance is hypocracy of the highest order

Slightly different from

Originally posted by gaelic cowboy
Don't believe them most of these people organising these marches are rabid anti americans have nothing to do with them. It wouldn't matter if it was Gore or Bush coming they would still be out roaring

It only took two days and three pages of posts for you to change your tune.

On an aside, can people use the appropriate tags when they want to quote a previous poster? This thread has got increasingly difficult to read . Thanks.

therecklessone

Originally posted by Morphéus


By afronting him in his capcity of representing his country, you afront every american alive today, how would we feel if we turned over to Boston on Paddys day and Bertie was being protested at by americans who were waving anti irish themed anti bertie posters? I know ID be pi$$ed.

I suggest any American who reads that into this weekends protests needs to lighten up.

And were can I contribute to the anti-Bertie poster fundraising?

uberwolf

for those of you planning to march this from the indo..

---

Gardai reveal security details for Bush visit



07:20 Wednesday June 23rd 2004


Gardai have announced details of their security arrangements for the visit of US President George W Bush at the end of this week. Upwards of 4,000 Gardai will be on duty during the visit, backed up by the Defence Forces. The Garda Air Support Unit will be deployed in the area of Shannon and Dromoland Castle to film planned protests against Mr Bush, which will also be monitored by temporary CCTV cameras. Two PSNI water cannons have been borrowed in case of trouble at the protests, while riot police will also be on standby in a number of locations. Special arrangements have also been made for the detention of protestors at Limerick Prison, while a unit at Shannon Industrial Estate has been designated as a temporary garda station, courthouse and detention centre.

---

Expect the best, prepare for the worst? Or will there be trouble?

chewy

whats wrong with being _anti_ war huh?

we're also anti gm cos it being pushed upon us.... if we wanted gm food we'd be pro it but cos if being fosted upon us we have to anti it, you can not argue that in england where there closer to it that a majority don't want it.....

you only see this week the greenpeace highlighted that although the british ar't getting very much gm food they are getting it indirectly via cattle fed by gm maize, im proud to anti that pro organic food....

anyway morphues or anyone else accusing us of being anti-american

Im sorry, but this whole justify the campaign as anti globalisation or anti capitalism stinks to high heaven.

come back to me on this will ya you didn't answer it can you not tell the differnece between anti-capitalism and anti-americanism?

BuffyBot

By afronting him in his capcity of representing his country, you afront every american alive today, how would we feel if we turned over to Boston on Paddys day and Bertie was being protested at by americans who were waving anti irish themed anti bertie posters? I know ID be pi$$ed.

Oh? Even the large amount of Americans who don't like him? Can't see them being all that affronted to be honest.

On a side note, I can't say I'd be all that affronted by anti-Bertie protesters.


Mmmm... while I'm at it: did we also get any source for the "garda getting bleach sprayed in his face" anecdote?

sceptre

Originally posted by Morphéus
how would we feel if we turned over to Boston on Paddys day and Bertie was being protested at by americans who were waving anti irish themed anti bertie posters? I know ID be pi$$ed.

For a start this isn't happening on the Fourth of July or on Thanksgiving. And leaving that aside, it would depend on whether they had some reason for protesting (whether that's a justifiable reason or not from our point of view) or just didn't like Irish people. Guatenamo Bay isn't big enough for all the Americans who've already been protesting against Bush.

chewy

yes read back to one of my posts...... still can't believe someone believed it...

Magnolia_Fan

If Bush isn't allowed into the country I think its only right that all the American companies in Ireland should leave and the American tourists should go elsewhere.....leave the Irish economy in the toilet. We need America alot more then they need us! European presidency or not

Morpheus

Ok, sorry, by bleach i was referring to the news reports that people were planning to use bleach in attacks on May Day. I never said they did use it, i just said that it seemed that an intention was there. im just saying that the protest should pass non violently.

The whole point of my postings are that at this stage, im sure you will have the protest, but if people picket private property intimidating owners (top oil garage protest in Dublin) or attack (or provoke and attack from) security forces through violent methods, your whole campaign will look bad. I also think that the bush out campaign does seem anti american to some people, for instance slapping americanised dollar flags in the background of the bush posters was anti american. They could have gotten the anti bush message across without the use of the flag. I certainly hope they dont go burning american flags...

http://www.indymedia.ie/attachments/may2004/a4pushbushlores.jpg

What about the the AWM community what are they doing to ensure that violent elements (irish or foreign) dont get involved? how will THEY police THEMSELVES?

Hobbes

Originally posted by Morphéus
IBy afronting him in his capcity of representing his country, you afront every american alive today, how would we feel if we turned over to Boston on Paddys day and Bertie was being protested at by americans who were waving anti irish themed anti bertie posters? I know ID be pi$$ed.

BS. People know the distinction.

There was an American comedian on RTE who was doing minimum wage jobs. When in Abrakabra he said every Irish person told him what they thought of Bush.

' "Hes a bollox!" they would say so "Yea well Bertie is a bollox too", "Ah sure we know that already". '

for instance slapping americanised dollar flags in the background of the bush posters was anti american.

Dollars are cheaper then paper to work with.

jackofalltrades

What about the the AWM community what are they doing to ensure that violent elements (irish or foreign) dont get involved? how will THEY police THEMSELVES?

The AWM can ask someone to leave the protest if they wan't but they can't physically restrain someone from joining their protest. And if someone turns violent whilst the protest is happening their hardly going to try and stop them as they'd be seriously risking their own safety. That and its not their job to enforce the law, its the Gardaí's.

BUMP!

If Bush isn't allowed into the country I think its only right that all the American companies in Ireland should leave and the American tourists should go elsewhere.....leave the Irish economy in the toilet. We need America alot more then they need us! European presidency or not

????? These companies are here cos it suits them. Extremely high levels of competence, good work ethic and (unlike the american divisions) we dont need six hours of meetings before turning a screwdriver.

The fact is some people ARE genuinely against the war in IRAQ , against the way America has been throwing its weight around economically (import tariffs on steel, etc...) and even a little peeved that the most active military force in the world wont be held accountable for war crimes. If they want to protest that then let them - after all that is what you are entitled to do in your OWN country. Just as long as they dont forget to do it peacefully and not to get carried away with stupidity!!

If other people love america then fine - use your right NOT to protest. (Although IMO if you took the list of things that america has done and then replaced the name america with china then the whole world would be in an uproar insisting that they were stopped...)

Magnolia_Fan

Originally posted by BUMP!
????? These companies are here cos it suits them. Extremely high levels of competence, good work ethic and (unlike the american divisions) we dont need six hours of meetings before turning a screwdriver.

The fact is some people ARE genuinely against the war in IRAQ , against the way America has been throwing its weight around economically (import tariffs on steel, etc...) and even a little peeved that the most active military force in the world wont be held accountable for war crimes. If they want to protest that then let them - after all that is what you are entitled to do in your OWN country. Just as long as they dont forget to do it peacefully and not to get carried away with stupidity!!

If other people love america then fine - use your right NOT to protest. (Although IMO if you took the list of things that america has done and then replaced the name america with china then the whole world would be in an uproar insisting that they were stopped...)

At the moment it doesn't suit them...Eastern Europe is in the E.U and they can very easily get just as skilled workers over there for alot cheaper and still benefit from the free trade between European Countrys, who in America would you suggest should be trialed for war crimes?

chewy

again there wasn't even any intent to throw bleach at the cops it was just a story peddled in tabloid _and_ broadsheet media who got it from the police and you believed it enough to repeat it here....

i know because i know...

ive been to several of the top oil protests,

yes first time the staff would be a bit scared but they get used to it, infact i think the first time the theres was a large gathering there was post an rts so you had a very friendly crowd arriving...

anyway whats bit of intimidation when these guys (the owner of the particular top oil on amiens street is local ff councillor who owns several businesses... ) who are most directly profiting from usaf planes landing here its all relative and the where you say the peaceful the best example you can come up with it the intimafation people feel when al arge crowds gathers.... you gotta do better then that...

Spacedog

If the American people had wanted Bush as president they would have elected him!

Cork

Originally posted by Spacedog
If the American people had wanted Bush as president they would have elected him!

But then, if the liberals only had not voted for Nader.

Magnolia_Fan

What is it that Bush has done wrong?...the war was a joint desicon in the senate, it wasn't just Bush going in on his ow merit

gaelic cowboy

Originally posted by gaelic cowboy
I'm talking about the organisers of the marches here not the marchers. If your oganising one I of course do not personally mean you are anti American for all I know you are American. However Sinn Fein on the same platform as the Peace and Neutrality Alliance is hypocracy of the highest order

Slightly different from

Originally posted by gaelic cowboy
Don't believe them most of these people organising these marches are rabid anti americans have nothing to do with them. It wouldn't matter if it was Gore or Bush coming they would still be out roaring

It only took two days and three pages of posts for you to change your tune.

On an aside, can people use the appropriate tags when they want to quote a previous poster? This thread has got increasingly difficult to read . Thanks.

Actually it is not a differant position I have said in both my post's I am talking about the organisers being anti american read it again many of these people are anti american Isay again organisers of the marches which were a bit of a damp squib also so I think this whole thing is a moot obviously most people dislike Bush but dont agree with IAWM.

Rock Climber

Originally posted by gaelic cowboy
of the marches which were a bit of a damp squib

LoL
I was wondering when a poster would say that...
Indeed...
Richard Boyd Barret was saying that the protesters meant that Bertie was out of touch regarding the peoples feelings...
There were only a few hundred of the usual suspects at Shannon.
Ok 10,000 turned up in Dublin( according to the Gardaí ) but there were more at the metallica concert than that...

So by Boyd Barrets logic, the whole nation are fans of metallica

Fair enough most people hate GWB, myself included he is an áss but they are not blatantly anti capitalist or anti american enough to join boyd barret in his socialist/communist bandwagon.
Irish people were more pragmatic and left sleeping dogs lie on this one, our position at the head of the E.U plus our business relationship with America ( 90,000 plus direct jobs and many many indirect jobs further downstream ) clearly trumped any desire in middle Ireland to go out against Bush.

I wonder is Boyd barret related to justin by the way

therecklessone

Originally posted by gaelic cowboy
Actually it is not a differant position I have said in both my post's I am talking about the organisers being anti american read it again many of these people are anti american Isay again organisers of the marches which were a bit of a damp squib also so I think this whole thing is a moot obviously most people dislike Bush but dont agree with IAWM.

I did read the posts. If you want to revert to your original stance thats fine by me.

However, the first comment I quoted clearly differed from the second. Pay close attention...

First you said:

Originally posted by gaelic cowboy
Don't believe them most of these people organising these marches are rabid anti americans have nothing to do with them. It wouldn't matter if it was Gore or Bush coming they would still be out roaring

Then you said:

Originally posted by gaelic cowboy
I'm talking about the organisers of the marches here not the marchers. If your oganising one I of course do not personally mean you are anti American for all I know you are American. However Sinn Fein on the same platform as the Peace and Neutrality Alliance is hypocracy of the highest order

In the first you're accusing most of the organisers of anti-Americanism, in the second you say you're not accusing them of it. Which is it?

Well in fairness, he did say in the first quote most of the people and not all...
In the second one he seems to be recognising that you(the recklessone) if you are an organiser, may not fall into the category of most which he referred to in the first quote.

I see no contradiction there given that the second quote is referring to you in particular whilst the first refers to the organisers as a whole and only to most of them in his view and not all.

Honestly chill folks

gaelic cowboy

Originally posted by therecklessone
I did read the posts. If you want to revert to your original stance thats fine by me.

However, the first comment I quoted clearly differed from the second. Pay close attention...

First you said:



Then you said:



In the first you're accusing most of the organisers of anti-Americanism, in the second you say you're not accusing them of it. Which is it?

No I wasn't I was actually talking about you yourselff therecklessone as I was afraid you might believe I was accusing you personally of being anti american. Right that is the last I will say in this forum for a while as the match is on:D

pork99

Of course the protest which really counts is the one which will hopefully happen at the polls in November when the US electorate vote to dump the retard.

The only impact protests here can make is to send the message to US voters that Bush foreign policies are a disaster but that could just as easily cut the other way; with voters rallying behind their President in the face of discontented foreigners.

Cork

dump the retard

It is no wonder that so few went to these marchs.

dathi1

It is no wonder that so few went to these marchs.

10,000 by Dublin march standars is v high.. its usually 2-3000 for most. Great to see a cross section of people from all walks of politics on the march. Most of the US based Irish gazettes and weekend news papers covered the cold shoulder approach to Bush and most also made comparisons with the JFK and Clinton visits. Albeit for a few seconds NBC TV, CNN and ABC also covered the protests with the latter giving a full 5 minutes to the strength of opposition here to the Bush admin. Overall probably one of the most worth while protests I've ever been on in a long time.

Originally posted by dathi1
Albeit for a few seconds NBC TV, CNN and ABC also covered the protests with the latter giving a full 5 minutes to the strength of opposition here to the Bush admin. Overall probably one of the most worth while protests I've ever been on in a long time.

It was the CBS evening news that I saw on Sky last night and they gave a few minutes to the Irish protests.
The effect of the report that I saw would actually be damaging at home for Bush as it compared Bushes non welcome with that of Clinton and that he must have done something radically wrong to get the Irish to dislike him so much.
As they said there was IRE in Ireland.

Cork

Originally posted by Earthman

The effect of the report that I saw would actually be damaging at home for Bush as it compared Bushes non welcome with that of Clinton and that he must have done something radically wrong to get the Irish to dislike him so much.
As they said there was IRE in Ireland.

Clinton also bombed Iraq.

But what positive message did the protests convey?

Same bunch of lefties protesting again?

The stark callapse in numbers taking part in these marchs and the movement of the Anti War protest concert from the point treatre should highlight that support is no longer there as it was onece was.

Spacedog

Originally posted by Cork
Clinton also bombed Iraq.

But what positive message did the protests convey?

Same bunch of lefties protesting again?

The stark callapse in numbers taking part in these marchs and the movement of the Anti War protest concert from the point treatre should highlight that support is no longer there as it was onece was.

"callapse in numbers" facts? figures? or just your word? were you at the protests counting people. I went to the protest on friday, never been to one before. didn't see over ten thousand people turning around to me and saying "Look a new one!, a new one!" anyone who's not a complete muppet knows the war was wrong by this stage!