Anti Bush March

dathi1

The stark callapse in numbers taking part in these marchs and the movement of the Anti War protest concert from the point treatre should highlight that support is no longer there as it was onece was.

Do you actually live in Cork? are you in ireland? if you are you would have seen the polls on how GW is received here? hardly a collapse in numbers?? oh you mean on the streets...yes but the message from the country is still the same.

Same bunch of lefties protesting again?

oh what bollox..belive you me there where right wingers and every other "wing" on the march too.

por

I saw a group of Anti-War\Anti-Bush protesters on the TV Saturday evening and one thing struck me.
If you are an anti-war group why on earth are there so many Palestinian flags in the marches?
Have you not noticed that the Palestinians have killed hundreds of innocent Israelis over the past 15 years or so?
I am aware that Palestine is not yet a state but it's leadership Mr. Arafat and others have not done very little to curb terrorist attacks in Israel.

If you are truly anti-war then get rid of the Palestinians trappings or you will have no credibility with this observer and others.

dathi1

Have you not noticed that the Palestinians have killed hundreds of innocent Israelis over the past 15 years or so?

I think you will notice that the body count quota from the other side is way in excess of this. As for the stateless Palestinians my history here teaches me about terror occupation and mass murder in this case backed up by Washington ........hence the protests. How does holding a Palestinian flag make you pro war?

por

Originally posted by dathi1
IHow does holding a Palestinian flag make you pro war?

I assume that since you are 'anti-war' then you are 'pro-peace'.
So how can you be 'pro-peace' while carrying a Palestinian flag, a flag that represents the murderers of hundreds of innocent Israelis?
Or are you only anti some wars and not others.
If you want to be truly ant-war, loose the terrorist trappings and stick to the peace flags.

Or perhaps you are not ant-war at all, just anti American ?.

Hobbes

Originally posted by por
Palestinian flag, a flag that represents the murderers of hundreds of innocent Israelis?

Depends on how you look at it. The flag represents to me also the murder of thousands (well more then Israel) of Palistinaians.

But hey you forgot about that right?

Or perhaps you are not ant-war at all, just anti American ?.

So you are saying that by being anti-war you are anti-American. So your saying that all Americans are warmongers? Doesn't sound quite right. Screaming anti-American just makes you look stupid and is an insult to Americans.

Palistine is a major factor in the conflict of the middle east, and is used to point out how clearly the US is welcome to help others impose terror on others and claim it is somehow a good thing.

por

Originally posted by Hobbes
Depends on how you look at it. The flag represents to me also the murder of thousands (well more then Israel) of Palistinaians.

As I said before if you are truly anti-war and therefore pro-peace why carry the flag or emblem of any nation involved in a conflict, i.e. a Palestinian flag.

By carrying the Palestinian flag your are saying 'well I am against the Iraq war but I support the Palestinians in their conflict'.

There is one word for that 'HYPROCITE'.........

Hobbes

Originally posted by por

By carrying the Palestinian flag your are saying 'well I am against the Iraq war but I support the Palestinians in their conflict'.

There is one word for that 'HYPROCITE'.........

Your implying that the fight is one way street when it is far from it. Palistine is also parallel to Iraq in many ways mostly in relation to how the US has had a hand in things.

But as I said many people in the world see Palistine as direct proof of US Policy. The only reason Iraq gets more coverage is because it is Americans dying daily instead of some Palistinian/Israeli.

You know it is possible to agree with the plight of the Palistinians without agreeing with Terrorism, or are you implying that all Palistinians are terrorists?

therecklessone

Originally posted by gaelic cowboy
No I wasn't I was actually talking about you yourselff therecklessone as I was afraid you might believe I was accusing you personally of being anti american. Right that is the last I will say in this forum for a while as the match is on:D

Point taken. My mistake, mainly due to my increasingly poor standard of English grammar.

I will ask one question though...if you believe most organisers of the march to be anti-American, why not accuse me of the same? If your first point is true, statistically there's a real possibility that I am anti-American, would you not agree?

On a similar note, if I was to say that the majority of people who voted Yes in our recent citizenship amendment did so because they were racists, would I not be accusing an individual of racism for voting Yes?

Oh, and I wasn't a march organiser...;)

therecklessone

Originally posted by Cork


The stark callapse in numbers taking part in these marchs and the movement of the Anti War protest concert from the point treatre should highlight that support is no longer there as it was onece was.

One could say the same about the stark collapse in FF's vote in the local and Euro elections Cork, and point to voters increasing dissatisfaction with the current government. WSould you support me on that Cork?

por

Originally posted by Hobbes
Your implying that the fight is one way street when it is far from it. Palistine is also parallel to Iraq in many ways mostly in relation to how the US has had a hand in things.

But as I said many people in the world see Palistine as direct proof of US Policy. The only reason Iraq gets more coverage is because it is Americans dying daily instead of some Palistinian/Israeli.

You know it is possible to agree with the plight of the Palistinians without agreeing with Terrorism, or are you implying that all Palistinians are terrorists?

If it is an anti war march, why carry the flag of one side in a conflict, answer me that Hobbes ???

I'm not saying that all Palestinians are terrorists, what I am saying is that I don't like the parading of their flag all over this country at anti-war marches as if they are an innocent party in their conflict. They are much to blame as anyone for the trouble in the Middle East. Why do their leaders not reign in the terrorists?, cos they don't want to....

Hobbes

Originally posted by por
If it is an anti war march, why carry the flag of one side in a conflict, answer me that Hobbes ???

probably because it is the US that supplies Israel with attack helicopters that fire missiles into market places, or bombs onto apartment blocks to kill one person, and supply the bulldozers to knock down thier houses and force them off thier land (not talking about history, talking about current land).

All the while getting slapped by the US if they do anything, while the US vetos any action in the UN that might stop the two sides fighting.

Ignoring "Anti-American" comment, it is America that is showing through foriegn policy what it thinks of the world. You can't blame people for hating Americans when it is Americans policy to totally fuk up countries around the world to suit itself. Prehaps Americans can do something about it to show the world what it is really supposed to be when your called American. Actions speak louder the proproganda.

Why do their leaders not reign in the terrorists?, cos they don't want to.... [/B]

They do. But then Israels missile attacks thier police stations to exact justice on the prisoner. Fair justice?

Destroy a countries whole infrastructure, make them virtually a prisoner on thier own lands, then tell them it is thier fault they won't do enough to stop terrorists? o_O

Israeli army are just as much terrorists as those you claim are too. Waving an Israeli flag at a peace march would be more of a hypocrite.

bug

Originally posted by por
If it is an anti war march, why carry the flag of one side in a conflict, answer me that Hobbes ???

I'm not saying that all Palestinians are terrorists, what I am saying is that I don't like the parading of their flag all over this country at anti-war marches as if they are an innocent party in their conflict. They are much to blame as anyone for the trouble in the Middle East. Why do their leaders not reign in the terrorists?, cos they don't want to....

hrm, by the same logic then any solidarity march in the last few decades in the republic, we should have carried the red hand or the union jack perhaps for the purpose of balance?
I think that although the march was organised by one group, each person on that march had their own reasons for marching, not strictly perhaps in agreement with the beliefs anti-war movement.
Those that carry palastinian flags are acknowledging perhaps in their mind the stuggle of the underdog against the invader (+ large army), which IMO draws a strong similarity between the situation arising in Iraq at the moment. as a result of an invasion...which is another way of looking at it.

Anyhoo, I was impressed with the friday night 10,000+ turn out and the diverse group of people who turned out, families children students and the westmeath contigent I ended up behind for some reason Considering all posters were banned and media coverage before the event wasnt that widespread, it was a complete success IMO.

And for those that say marching does nothing, in the era when media coverage puts you on the priority list as far as political issues are concerned, the more who turn up the more media coverage it gets...

por

Originally posted by bug
hrm, by the same logic then any solidarity march in the last few decades in the republic, we should have carried the red hand or the union jack perhaps for the purpose of balance?

When you say 'solidarity' what context is it in ?. If you mean 'solidarity' with the republicans then why on earth would you have a unionist banner.

But if it were in solidarity with the innocent people in NI who want a normal life then no party’s\traditions banners should have been used.

Anyhoo, I was impressed with the friday night 10,000+ turn out and the diverse group of people who turned out, families children students and the westmeath contigent I ended up behind for some reason Considering all posters were banned and media coverage before the event wasnt that widespread, it was a complete success IMO

Stop blaming the media for the pathetic turnout (1,000) in Co. Clare on Saturday.

Hobbes
The next time there is an attack on the US mainland by a Muslim group killing thousands, look at the TV pictures of the people in Gaza and the West bank celebrating, as they did in 2001, and then have a good look at yourself and your Palestinian flag.....

gaelic cowboy

Originally posted by therecklessone
Point taken. My mistake, mainly due to my increasingly poor standard of English grammar.

I will ask one question though...if you believe most organisers of the march to be anti-American, why not accuse me of the same? If your first point is true, statistically there's a real possibility that I am anti-American, would you not agree?

On a similar note, if I was to say that the majority of people who voted Yes in our recent citizenship amendment did so because they were racists, would I not be accusing an individual of racism for voting Yes?

Oh, and I wasn't a march organiser...;)

Sound I think we will leave it at that so heh heh heh

Hobbes

Originally posted by por

Stop blaming the media for the pathetic turnout (1,000) in Co. Clare on Saturday.

Yea, nothing to do with the whole of Clare locked up so no one could travel there without special papers. It was more then 1,000 in Clare btw.

The next time there is an attack on the US mainland by a Muslim group killing thousands, look at the TV pictures of the people in Gaza and the West bank celebrating, as they did in 2001, and then have a good look at yourself and your Palestinian flag.....

You should prehaps begin to understand why cheer to begin with. Understanding why they do this does not mean you agree with the terrorists.

Prehaps you missed the people cheering when USA caught Saddam, or invaded two countries.

Hobbes

I'm listening to it again.

She really only cuts in on him once. Two other times he has stopped talking for a good second or more and when she begins to start he cuts her off. The one where she cuts him off she points out that he is telling porky pies.

He answers nothing to what she is asking.

Also he mentions that he had Iraqis visited him with missing hands and crosses put into thier foreheads by Saddam.. yet I can't find a news story about this? *Edit: Some creative googling, found it

He was already caught out for claiming he saw the first plane attack on TV before going into the school.

He also has a go at France.. what a load of crap.

All fluff, no substance.

bug

Originally posted by por
When you say 'solidarity' what context is it in ?. If you mean 'solidarity' with the republicans then why on earth would you have a unionist banner.

But if it were in solidarity with the innocent people in NI who want a normal life then no party’s\traditions banners should have been used.

as i said Im not sure everyone on the march was in tandum with the anti-war stance,
and if you were in solidarity for the palastinians against an invading force I dont imagine that you would have an israeli flag...to state the obvious.

Stop blaming the media for the pathetic turnout (1,000) in Co. Clare on Saturday.

why how do you expect it to get around word of mouth?
and eh...I wasnt talking about clare I was talking about dublin.

por

Originally posted by bug
as i said Im not sure everyone on the march was in tandum with the anti-war stance,

At last a straight answer, Thank you 'bug',

'Hobbes'....take heed.

por

Originally posted by Hobbes
Yea, nothing to do with the whole of Clare locked up so no one could travel there without special papers. It was more then 1,000 in Clare btw

I was in Ennis on Saturday, did not need any papers to get around.....

You should perhaps begin to understand why cheer to begin with. Understanding why they do this does not mean you agree with the terrorists.

You make no sense, please enlighten me..., how can cheering what happened on Sept 11th 2001 by terrorists

not mean you agree with the terrorists

Perhaps you missed the people cheering when USA caught Saddam, or invaded two countries.

The destruction of two tyrannical regimes and the capture of a tyrant, I think that deserves a cheer. Or were you upset with the ousting of the Taliban.?

Hobbes

Originally posted by por
You make no sense, please enlighten me..., how can cheering what happened on Sept 11th 2001 by terrorists

Except that the people cheering were not terrorists. They were everyday palistinians. Granted it could be one or more were a terrorist, but unless you have proof that everyone cheering is a terrorist then you shouldn't refer to the palistian people as terrorists.

I was in Ennis on Saturday, did not need any papers to get around.....

Fair enough not the whole of Clare. Any luck going by Dromoland? The numbers were low because basically you couldn't get anywhere near him. The numbers were certainly high elsewhere.

The destruction of two tyrannical regimes and the capture of a tyrant, I think that deserves a cheer. Or were you upset with the ousting of the Taliban.?

What you described is quite likely what the people cheering were saying to themselves as well.

As for the Taliban, not upset they were removed.

I was more upset that the US helped train the Taliban (in its previous incantation), were dealing with them up until Sept 11th and installed Northern Alliance into power who have worse human rights abuses then the Taliban.

You did know that Taliban were accepted as the rulers in Afganistan because they got rid of the Northern Alliance to begin with?

por

Originally posted by Hobbes
Except that the people cheering were not terrorists. They were everyday Palestinians. Granted it could be one or more were a terrorist, but unless you have proof that everyone cheering is a terrorist then you shouldn't refer to the palistian people as terrorists.

Once again you miss the point. My point is not that these people are terrorists but they obviously support terrorist activity, why else would they be cheering the murder of 3,000 odd innocent people thousands of miles away. Therefore the use of a Palestinian flag in my eyes is aligning ones self with people like the above.

I was more upset that the US helped train the Taliban (in its previous incantation), were dealing with them up until Sept 11th and installed Northern Alliance into power who have worse human rights abuses then the Taliban.
You did know that Taliban were accepted as the rulers in Afganistan because they got rid of the Northern Alliance to begin with?

It's called double standards, and don't be so quick to knock it, you may find it useful at some stage. We all have and we all will.

Hobbes

Originally posted by por
Once again you miss the point. My point is not that these people are terrorists but they obviously support terrorist activity, why else would they be cheering the murder of 3,000 odd innocent people thousands of miles away. Therefore the use of a Palestinian flag in my eyes is aligning ones self with people like the above.

And how many people do you think they see die day to day to Israeli occupation and oppression? They see a blow to America for its actions it has done to them through Israel. The Palistinians were cheering because they were thinking the US would realise what it is like for them. A lot interviewed afterwards had no concept of how high the towers were, or how big a blow it was until later.

It doesn't mean you support terrorism.

Israeli leader also said 9/11 was a good thing for them on TV that those people died. Granted he wasn't cheering but he was smiling when he said it. Also the Israeli secret service caught near ground zero filming it were only caught because they were celebrating too.

It's called double standards, and don't be so quick to knock it, you may find it useful at some stage. We all have and we all will.

No its called creating the mess they are claiming to clean up but only making a bigger mess which will bite them in the ass later on. Just like Iraq. Support a dictator to fight another dictator who got into power for fuking around with that country, only to have to remove him and get killed by the insurgents they helped put into power to begin with.

por

Originally posted by Hobbes
. The Palistinians were cheering because they were thinking the US would realise what it is like for them. A lot interviewed afterwards had no concept of how high the towers were, or how big a blow it was until later.

God bless your naive little heart that's all I can say.

bug

Once again you miss the point. My point is not that these people are terrorists but they obviously support terrorist activity, why else would they be cheering the murder of 3,000 odd innocent people thousands of miles away. Therefore the use of a Palestinian flag in my eyes is aligning ones self with people like the above.

first of all when those pictures were shown nobody knew the death toll.
and well...i'll be honest here...if my family home or that of my neighbours, in fact if my people were "terrorised" by a people with a large army supported and financed by a large western power who preaches peace in nothing but its speaches, mob mentality would probably lead me to cheer too... who knows, maybe they felt bad afterwards, those 40 people they showed in a very well timed news clip...
:rolleyes:

Hobbes

Originally posted by por
God bless your naive little heart that's all I can say.

Hardly naive. If anything you are for thinking that all palistinians = terrorists. That is what you are saying right? You are saying thier flag = terrorism.

By your rationale, Union Jack, Irish tricolour and the Stars and stripes all = terrorism as well. So going on from that faulty logic all English, Irish and Americans are terrorists too.

por

Originally posted by Hobbes
Hardly naive. If anything you are for thinking that all palistinians = terrorists. That is what you are saying right? You are saying thier flag = terrorism.

Yes in my opinion Palestinian Flag = terrorism, like unionists in NI saw tricolour = terrorism.
And until the Palestinian authority crack down on it then I will always believe this.

Israel is a sovereign, democratic state that has every right to protect it's self from it’s Arab neighbours who wish to see it destroyed.

I saw on TV where a SF councillor was elected in Galway and some ‘ass’ was with him waving a Palestinian flag, they just swapped terrorism on this island for terrorism in the Middle East

therecklessone

Originally posted by por
Yes in my opinion Palestinian Flag = terrorism, like unionists in NI saw tricolour = terrorism.

I take it then that you agree with unionists who see the tricolour as a flag of terrorism. Methinks you need to take a step back and realise how utterly ridiculous a concept that is.

por

Originally posted by therecklessone
I take it then that you agree with unionists who see the tricolour as a flag of terrorism. Methinks you need to take a step back and realise how utterly ridiculous a concept that is.

Back in the bad days of the troubles, the IRA (a terrorist organisation) used the tri-colour as part of their symbolism. What else did you expect unionists to think !!!!!

If you were republican do you see the Ulster flag (much used by loyalist terrorists) as a sign of terrorism, I certainly would.

therecklessone

Originally posted by por
Back in the bad days of the troubles, the IRA (a terrorist organisation) used the tri-colour as part of their symbolism. What else did you expect unionists to think !!!!!

Off-topic my friend, but I'll answer it nonetheless. I expect unionists to differentiate between a group of terrorists and the state they claim to represent. I am proud to be an Irish man, but have no time for the IRA. I do respect my flag, and I believe it stands for more than summary execution and thuggery.

You think the Palestinian flag is a flag of terrorism.

You then compare this to unionists thinking the Irish flag is a flag of terrorism.

I'm asking you do you agree with them, as you seem to suggest by comparing the two.

gaelic cowboy

Originally posted by therecklessone
Off-topic my friend, but I'll answer it nonetheless. I expect unionists to differentiate between a group of terrorists and the state they claim to represent. I am proud to be an Irish man, but have no time for the IRA. I do respect my flag, and I believe it stands for more than summary execution and thuggery.

You think the Palestinian flag is a flag of terrorism.

You then compare this to unionists thinking the Irish flag is a flag of terrorism.

I'm asking you do you agree with them, as you seem to suggest by comparing the two.

Hear hear very true I bet no one here thinks the UK flag=Terrorist