France lucky?

Bungalow Bill

Does anybody else agree that France will more than likely get into the semi-finals by being quite lucky and not very impressive at all?

In my opinion they were very lucky against England, got a sloppy draw with Croatia ( and we saw how bad they were tonight) and a win over a poor Switzerland. Now they get Greece who just lost to Russia, and just like that, the last 4!

Harry2001

Yes they have struggled alright, how did they concede to Switzerland????

They will probably step it up now though but their defence is shaky, but still it will take a very good side with a bit of luck to beat them

Dewey

I agree Bungalow, they were very lucky to get all 3 points against England, they should of lost to Croatia and I heard the 3-1 wasnt a fair result against the Swiss.
I expect them to knock Greece out and then it will be the semi-finals before we have seen France agaisnt a top side(apart from England).

mike65

I think the Greeks will be tough nut to crack myself. They
looked very compact and organised from back to front. If France are to score they'll have to work hard.

Mike.

eyerer

Originally posted by Bungalow Bill
Does anybody else agree that France will more than likely get into the semi-finals by being quite lucky and not very impressive at all?

In my opinion they were very lucky against England, got a sloppy draw with Croatia ( and we saw how bad they were tonight) and a win over a poor Switzerland. Now they get Greece who just lost to Russia, and just like that, the last 4!

i agree they were lucky, but i think croatia played better against france than they did against england

eirebhoy

They were lucky to win the group but that was only because the other 3 teams weren't the best, Portugal were luckier IMO. Switzerland were the better team against England until Haas got sent off. The England-France match was equal but it mistakes cost England.

and I heard the 3-1 wasnt a fair result against the Swiss.

I don't know were you heard that because France definitely deserved the win. They had 16 shots (8 on target) to Switzerland's 7 (3 on target). They also had 7 corners to Switzerland's 1 and also had more possession.

redspider

I dont know why people think that France were lucky against England. True, they only scraped their goals in the last few minutes, and the result could have been a loss, but they deserved the win due to the number of scoring chances they created.
The penalty saved was well saved. The goals they got were well scored.

The stats are as follows:

France stat England
2 Goals scored 1
16 Total Shots 11
6 Shots on target 4
559 Passes 408
444 Passes completed 315
5 Corner kicks 2
19 Free kicks conceded 20
16 Fouls committed 17
3 Offsides 1
2 Yellow cards 3
0 Red cards 0
30' Ball Possession 26'
54 Ball possession % 46


Also read the min-by-min notes:

http://www.euro2004.com/tournament/matches/Round=1581/Match=1059167/Report=MS.html

vorbis

um redspider, two goals after the 90th minute IS lucky. Those stats are pretty similar. A draw would have been a fair result. Besides the two goals, did France create another decent chance?

redspider

Yes, Trezeguet header, James beaten, ball just over the bar.
France were unlucky not be leading at the 90th minute.
That was the reality. Teams can lose games underservingly.

(I didnt write the following .....)
France forced the early pace, winning a corner in the first minute and then some hesitant England defending left an opening for Patrick Vieira but the Arsenal FC midfield player shot over from 25 metres. First-match tension and the ennui of acquaintance were not in evidence in a engaging opening spell in which the play flowed from end to end. Robert Pires's cross and Zidane's free-kick highlighted the French menace while England's lively approach play had yet to yield a productive final ball.

Trezeguet miss
Gradually, the defending champions' superior passing pinned England back and a Zidane snapshot that flew wide testified to their burgeoning superiority. And France should have opened the scoring seconds later when Vieira's cross from the left was met by David Trezeguet – who has more international goals to his name than any other current French international – but his header glanced narrowly over.

Sterile stalemate
France's fluency contrasted with England's inertia as Wayne Rooney and Michael Owen were starved of service. But for all their pretty passing, France lacked a cutting edge and soon sterility and stalemate supplanted the early adventure.

Lampard lift
The opening goal, therefore, came as something of a shock but it was no surprise that it took a set-piece to break the deadlock. David Beckham produced a trademark delivery from a free-kick on the right and Lampard, so prolific for Chelsea FC this season, rose above Mikaël Silvestre at the near post to head past Fabien Barthez for this third international goal on his 20th appearance. Lampard's 18th strike in all competitions this season was also the first goal that France had conceded in 1,078 minutes of football.

Henry chances
Jacques Santini elected not to make any half-time changes and his confidence was almost vindicated within a minute of the restart but Henry shot straight at James when well-placed and then spurned two half-chances in quick succession.

Rooney run
That early endeavour failed to herald a French renaissance and England were now looking the better team with Campbell and King playing like long-term partners at the back. Darius Vassell, celebrating his 25th birthday, replaced the subdued Owen in the 70th minute but it was his strike partner Rooney who brought England to the brink of victory two minutes later when his devastating direct run was ended illegally by Silvestre's trip in the penalty area.

Brilliant save
The Manchester United FC defender escaped with a caution and there was reprieve too for France as Barthez dived to his right to save Beckham's penalty. It was the England captain's second penalty miss in as many competitive internationals. Barthez was in the thick of the action again minutes later when he misjudged Vassell's shot and made an unorthodox stop with his nose. It was to prove crucial at the death.


Stunning free-kick
Trailing to Frank Lampard's 38th-minute header, it seemed that the holders would begin their campaign with a disappointing defeat. However, the Real Madrid CF playmaker curled in a free-kick a minute into added time to seemingly rescue a point.

Penalty drama
Moments later Steven Gerrard's misplaced pass set Thierry Henry clear and the French striker was brought down by England goalkeeper David James. Zidane kept his nerve from the spot to cap an incredible turnaround.

vorbis

sorry France had one other chance. Henry's shot could not be described as a decent chance. Whoever wrote that piece would do well to actually watch the match before writing his article. Its an example of "the winner always deserves to win" journalism.

TwoShedsJackson

Just because the two goals came late does not mean they were lucky. Most teams would have given up at that stage. France took the two chances that eventually came their way, that's the mark of a quality team (and player in Zindane) to me.

If they had scored in the 75th and 85th minute in the same way, a free kick and a penalty, would that be luck too?

vorbis

the fact is twoshedsjackson they didn't score in the minutes you suggested. They grabbed two goals in injury time! I know people hate england but denying what happened is a bit silly. If Ireland did the same, it would be a lucky win. France indeed never gave up, they weren't however creating anything.

thejollyrodger

559 Passes 408
444 Passes completed 315

I think that says a lot really, englands passing was very fragmented compared to the French. The first england goal did come against the run of play as far as i can remmeber. And the french dont even look like they are playing at full throttle.

mayordenis

sure they are lucky but honestly does anyone think the tournament would be better without the best teams??
beacuse france vs england in the final would be great or france vs czech rep would be a great match. they will probably be involved in one or two more exciting matches.

naitkris

Originally posted by mayordenis
beacuse france vs england in the final would be great or france vs czech rep would be a great match.

France v Czech Rep. cannot play against each other in the finals, the semis is where they'll meet one another if they both win their quarter final matches, England v France however is a possibility... if England and France keep it together but i am sure at least one of them will be out by the semis...

eirebhoy

Originally posted by vorbis
Those stats are pretty similar.

I was half drunk watching the match so I thought a draw would have been a fair result but after looking at the stats I've changed my mind. The stats are not equal.

Also if France scored 2 goals in the 10-13th minute would it be classed as lucky?

Guy:Incognito

did houllier no bladde ron about liverpool having the same amount or more chances than arsenal last season, does that mean then that they were unlucky not to win the league, or that they were good at moving the ball in the general direction of opponents goals. Having lots of chances and missing them all doesnt mean you deserve anything, just that you cant score. If England had shot everytime they got within 40 yards of the goal then they would have had a higher amount of chances.

BaZmO*

Originally posted by naitkris
France v Czech Rep. cannot play against each other in the finals, the semis is where they'll meet one another if they both win their quarter final matches, England v France however is a possibility... if England and France keep it together but i am sure at least one of them will be out by the semis...

It's England that'll meet the Czechs in the semi's if England beat the Portugese and assuming that the Czech's beat the runners up in Group C.


The way it stands so far...

24-Jun 20:45 - Portugal -v- England - Lisbon
25-Jun 20:45 - France -v- Greece - Lisbon
26-Jun 20:45 - Winner C -v- Runner Up D - Faro-Loule
27-Jun 20:45 - Czech Rep. -v- Runner Up C - Porto


B.

eirebhoy

Originally posted by Stekelly
did houllier no bladde ron about liverpool having the same amount or more chances than arsenal last season, does that mean then that they were unlucky not to win the league, or that they were good at moving the ball in the general direction of opponents goals. Having lots of chances and missing them all doesnt mean you deserve anything, just that you cant score. If England had shot everytime they got within 40 yards of the goal then they would have had a higher amount of chances.

There are actually more stats than shots on goal and France are ahead on every single one of them.

PHB

I really don't think you can call that luck what france did vs. England.

The classic case to bring it back to is Man Utd vs Bayern, when Man Utd scored two at the end, was that luck?
Or was it, just as the France Match, a team that had put on constant pressure in the second half which eventually paid off at the end vs. a defense team.

redspider

Does anyone have the stats or a min-by-min account of that ManU/Bayern Final?
Its brought up a lot and I couldnt find anything after a quick browse on the net but some of you guys/(gals? do we have any of those?) must have some documentation on it.

My memory of that match, which I stated on another thread, was that over the full game, Bayern had more scoreable chances than ManU and deserved to win it, so in that case ManU were lucky.

Although the goals in the added time were scored similarly, the luck balance in my opinion was much different in both games.

Overall, France shaded it against England and hence deserved the win.
Bayern shaded it against ManU and didnt deserve the loss.

naitkris

Originally posted by BaZmO*
It's England that'll meet the Czechs in the semi's if England beat the Portugese and assuming that the Czech's beat the runners up in Group C.


The way it stands so far...

24-Jun 20:45 - Portugal -v- England - Lisbon
25-Jun 20:45 - France -v- Greece - Lisbon
26-Jun 20:45 - Winner C -v- Runner Up D - Faro-Loule
27-Jun 20:45 - Czech Rep. -v- Runner Up C - Porto


B.

i just re-checked it on the official Euro 2004 website (Soccer pools thread has it wrong it seems) and if England beat Portugal then they'll meet either Sweden (or Germany or Latvia or Holland) in the semi-final. France if they beat Greece will meet either Denmark or Czech Republic in the semi-final.

BaZmO*

Yeah just checked the Uefa site and it seems that I was wrong!!

Apologies!!


Although playing Germany or Holland won't that easy either!

B.