Gaps between Luas stops

dub45

I wonder what people think of the distances between stops for the Luas?

Seems to me that some of the distances are quite large. For instance there is a stop in James Hospital and then the next one is at Heuston Station. Seems a long distance for say a pensioner carrying a large bag of groceries.

Incidentally the Luas has also reslulted in the distance between bus stops in the James St area being increased considerably. Has anyone else noticed this in other areas?

BrianD

Dosen't really affect the Green Line as most of it is off street. I have been on this line and there seems to be relatively short gaps between stations but then again the tram is traveling at up to 70 km/hr!

On the Green line there is a relatively long gap between Stephens Green and the old Harcourt St. Station. I notice on the Red Line that there is no stop between Jervis St. and Wynns Hotel (I thought that Arnotts would have got one or at least one before O'connell st/abbey st junction).

Correct me If I'm wrong but there is not much between James St. and Heuston in terms of residential or commercial? I suspect that there is probably some calc that the use for spacing tram stops - greater than buses and less than railways. My guess anyway.

Imposter

Originally posted by BrianD
Correct me If I'm wrong but there is not much between James St. and Heuston in terms of residential or commercial? I suspect that there is probably some calc that the use for spacing tram stops - greater than buses and less than railways. My guess anyway. [/B]

Would Thomas St., Meath St. and possibly even as far as Christchurch not count ?

dub45

Originally posted by BrianD
Dosen't really affect the Green Line as most of it is off street. I have been on this line and there seems to be relatively short gaps between stations but then again the tram is traveling at up to 70 km/hr!

On the Green line there is a relatively long gap between Stephens Green and the old Harcourt St. Station. I notice on the Red Line that there is no stop between Jervis St. and Wynns Hotel (I thought that Arnotts would have got one or at least one before O'connell st/abbey st junction).

Correct me If I'm wrong but there is not much between James St. and Heuston in terms of residential or commercial? I suspect that there is probably some calc that the use for spacing tram stops - greater than buses and less than railways. My guess anyway.

You are wrong have a look around the next time you drive through James St!

BrianD

Whats the length of thr track on James St? 100 metres?

dazberry

Yeah, but I think the point is that there isn't much between James and Heuston. Basically when you come out of James, you have apartment blocks etc, and then you going down Stephen's Lane at Stephen's (or is it Steven's?) hospital. Yes, its a pain in the ass if you're going to Thomas St., but really the LUAS (or loo-ass as a guy in work calls it) is veering off in a perpendicular direction at that point.

The other issue is that were would you put a stop in between. TBH I would be of the opinion that that whole area is a mess, that is now ALL crossed by the Luas (genius). But I can't think of a place to situate another stop between James and Heuston because of the roads etc. - you can't have one on James St., nor Stephen's lane (unless you wanted to otherwise restrict pedestrian access) and then you're at Heuston. Seems pointless to have one in between there.

In relation to bus stops, there's only one bus stop on the way out of town (it could be two of course - I always go for the 68 or 69 going home - they go around the world but they're much quicker to Inchicore) that was removed. Otherwise, the AFAIK one inbound stop was moved a bit back, but not all that much.

D.

dub45

The population in the James St area has increased quite significantly in recent years.

Dont forget that there is quite a big population living 'behind' the older block of flats in Jame St plus there are a lot of new apartment blocks in James St itself

The advent of Luas has worsened the bus situation considerably. The inbound bus stop was moved about 100 yards back but that meant that it was no longer possible to get a 123 in James St and that pushed the nearest stop for the 123 further on possibly 200 yards or more. There is not much difference now betweeen the distance between the Luas stops and the stops for the 123 - (James Hospital and James church) for the latter.

It is very difficult to see how any of the businesses in James St will benefit in any way from the Luas considering what they had to put up with during the construction.

dazberry

Originally posted by dub45
The population in the James St area has increased quite significantly in recent years.

[snip]

Good point on the 123, hadn't figured on it as I'm on the 51B/C myself inbound. But I guess I still have to say, where would you put another Luas stop in between the 2 stops mentioned?

But regardless that whole area is a mess IMO. Today it takes me 30 minutes door to work door, yet there have been times when its taken over an hour (~1h 20 - if I'd known beforehand I could have walked in ffs). All those delays are at the James St. / Thomas St. intersection - traffic backed up to Kilmanham cross. Fire a Luas every few minutes across that and I dread to think what it will be like. Ok, I would hope to be on a Luas at that point - but we'll play it by ear.

D.

dub45

Originally posted by dazberry
Good point on the 123, hadn't figured on it as I'm on the 51B/C myself inbound. But I guess I still have to say, where would you put another Luas stop in between the 2 stops mentioned?

But regardless that whole area is a mess IMO. Today it takes me 30 minutes door to work door, yet there have been times when its taken over an hour (~1h 20 - if I'd known beforehand I could have walked in ffs). All those delays are at the James St. / Thomas St. intersection - traffic backed up to Kilmanham cross. Fire a Luas every few minutes across that and I dread to think what it will be like. Ok, I would hope to be on a Luas at that point - but we'll play it by ear.

D.

There is still quite an elderly population in the area so increasing the distance between bus stops has not helped them. I dont know where an extra luas stop could have been inserted I raised the point origingally more as an example of the distance between stops. To be honest I would say that the bus situation affects people more in the sense of wanting to go to Thomas St maybe which would be a shopping area for a lot of people.

The traffic situation really is dire some mornings. They also seem now to have the traffic lights for the luas in place and working whether or not the luas is anywhere near. The other morning the traffic was being stopped at the traffic lights both at James Hospital and at the fountain for no apparent reason and I am sure that was adding to the back up in the traffic.

As you say the place overall is a mess I will be amazed and relieved if there arent a number of serious accidents when the Luas gets fully going.

BrianD

The few businesses on James St. that were affected by the Luas during construction are all "local" in nature - i note a fruit/veg shop, bookies, credit union, newsagents etc. You are correct in saying that they will not benefit from passing trade from the Luas nor will they benefit from buses or passing cars (apart from more window shoppers). These shops serve the locale and IMO most of their customers would arrive on foot. They would still be there if the street was pedestrianised tomorrow. They could have done without the construction but I doubt if there could have been much of an impact on their trade. Granted that the fruit and veg shop will have a problem with kerbside deliveries.

dub45

They could have done without the construction but I doubt if there could have been much of an impact on their trade. Granted that the fruit and veg shop will have a problem with kerbside deliveries.

Before making such pronouncements based on nothing you should try talking to some of those business owners!

BrianD

On the contrary, I think my opinion is quite reasonable based on an observation of the situation. I haven't spoken to any of the traders nor am I ever likely to do so.

As you appear to live in the area perhaps you have good reasons to contradict me.

dub45

Originally posted by BrianD
On the contrary, I think my opinion is quite reasonable based on an observation of the situation. I haven't spoken to any of the traders nor am I ever likely to do so.

As you appear to live in the area perhaps you have good reasons to contradict me.

Well why not try and inform yourself before giving opinions then?

BrianD

Dub45 I have explained that I am making am expressing a reasonable opinion. The fact that you haven't responded suggests that I may be correct. The ball is in your court as they say.

dub45

As I continue to point out but you refuse to recognise your opions are based on drive by glibness and not on anything remotely substantial like an inquiry say!!!!

And as I said in my post why dont you attempt to inform yourself?

BrianD

I take it that you are in agreement with me then as you have nothing to state to the contrary. This is a forum where ordinary folk can discuss issues of interest to them. I don't have to go off and interview the RPA, Connex or shopkeepers/residents to form an opinion based on an observation of the situation. I'm sure their people who post who are residents, employees of transport companies etc. who can add their view and background to the various topics posted.

In any case I think we have strayed way off topic from the original thread you posted. There is a long gap between James st. and Heuston. Perhaps a stop at the top of Steevens St. should have also been considered. Having said that where exactly would a pensioner with a large bag of groceries be coming from??

dub45

Originally posted by BrianD
I take it that you are in agreement with me then as you have nothing to state to the contrary. This is a forum where ordinary folk can discuss issues of interest to them. I don't have to go off and interview the RPA, Connex or shopkeepers/residents to form an opinion based on an observation of the situation. I'm sure their people who post who are residents, employees of transport companies etc. who can add their view and background to the various topics posted.

I think it is perfectly reasonable that if someone is giving an opinion that it shoujld based on something substantial particularly when you are commenting on peoples livelihoods without any basis for the comment apparently.


In any case I think we have strayed way off topic from the original thread you posted. There is a long gap between James st. and Heuston. Perhaps a stop at the top of Steevens St. should have also been considered. Having said that where exactly would a pensioner with a large bag of groceries be coming from??


A shop or even several shops maybe? Pensioners do visit the city center you know!

BrianD

The few businesses on James St. that were affected by the Luas during construction are all "local" in nature - i note a fruit/veg shop, bookies, credit union, newsagents etc. You are correct in saying that they will not benefit from passing trade from the Luas nor will they benefit from buses or passing cars (apart from more window shoppers). These shops serve the locale and IMO most of their customers would arrive on foot. They would still be there if the street was pedestrianised tomorrow. They could have done without the construction but I doubt if there could have been much of an impact on their trade. Granted that the fruit and veg shop will have a problem with kerbside deliveries.

Here's my posting again. You have only responded to the last line which is speculative but perhaps you can advise if the fruit and veg man gets deliveries to his front door (which would be disrupting traffic without the luas being there) or a rear entrance.

I think my opinions based on observations are well founded and the fact that you haven't argued otherwise I take it that you agree.

As for the pensioners with big bags of groceries they now have the choice of the tram (for the city centre) or bus (for thomas St. and the city centre). My opinion would be that pensioners tend to keep their grocery shopping local and being pensioners they aren't going to have big bags of groceries!!

Victor

OK, folks, put away the handbags and chill out (or is it shopping bags this time?).

BrianD

Jazus, we're like auld ones with our shopping waitin' at the tram stop.