Portugal v England (scores)

eirebhoy

I got two better pics of the incident. Here's the first:

http://homepage.eircom.net/~gearoidw01/Image164.jpg
It looks like Ricardo is jumping up to the ball but look at the next pic:

http://homepage.eircom.net/~gearoidw01/Image165.jpg
He's, more or less, standing on the ground trying to get (if he's not standing on the ground he could certainly jump higher if Terry wasn't there). What keeper stands on the ground to in that kind of position? Nobody. He would have jumped for the ball if Terry wasn't on top of him. He was impeded.

JippoKelly

What an entertaining match! Mightn't have had the best football, but it sure had drama!

I'm of the view that the ref was right in disallowing the goal. Terry clearly impeded Ricardo's attempt to reach the ball. And even prior to that, Campbell had practically mounted the Portuguese defender to head the ball against the bar. Although if it was Ireland in that situation I couldn't guarantee I'd still yhink it was a foul.

England were by in large dreadful for most of this game. Their midfield was anonymous in the match and better teams than Portugal would have finished them off sooner. But a combination of the Portuguese overplaying the ball and some heroic defending by Cole, Campbell and G. Neville kept England in it, and prior to Rooney going off, England looked quite dangerous on the break.

Portugal need to throw another striker on in future. There just aren't enough players in the box from their crosses. Maybe sacrifice Costinha and go for Gomes/Pauleta or Gomes/Postiga up front. Maniche can drop in to the DM role (although not quite so deep).

Portugal also need to be more direct. They need to switch the play more often to try and stretch the opposition defence (they have the ability to do it, but haven't done it in this tournament). They have a tendancy to over-pass it in confined spaces and this makes it very hard for them to break down teams as tonight has shown.

And as for Figo, he's an arrogant fool with an exaggerated view of his importance to the team. He should at least have wished Postiga good luck when he came on.

redspider

Good thread people.

I also think that football won out tonight and Portugal were clearly the more inventive and attacking on the night. They deserved their win. And although no-one likes losing on penalties, it had to be decided some way. England missed Rooney big-time, but England's main error is their set-up in midfield. They just had too many players that play in a similar role for their clubs, and Scholes didnt play in "the hole".

I had a look at the disallowed goal again and it was clearly a foul by Terry on the keeper. True, they are usually given as refs tend to (over)protect goalkeepers more than other players, and I think thats even written in the rules. You essentially cant go into a 50-50 challenge with goalies. Terry had his arm on him. Any neutral analyst would have seen it and I would advise people here to have a look at it again on video to satisfy themselves. RTE and BBC got it wrong.

The one "over the line" by Portugal was not over the line I think. Cole cleared it away and it didnt go over the line in my opinion, although the camera angle was from the half-way line and no replay was given of that incident.

When Rui Costa came on, he looked lively and was playing well so it was great to see him get that goal, and what a goal.

The two english goals came from defensive errors by the Portugese. The first was very visible, a back-header intercepted and finished smartly by Owen. He played better because of it afterwards but he didnt produce any magic on the night.

Lampards goal was also due to error. Portugal had just scored and they were defending a corner, but if you watch the replay you will see that there were just 4 portugese marking 6 (six!) english players. Terry beat two defenders, the ball directed down to Lampard who was unchallenged and had time to turn and score from 5 yards!

A fair result overall. I dont think Portugal will win it though, but its good to see them through, and now we will all get a rest from the English media for a while!

good night (02:48).

Villain

All I want to say is LOL!!!


England are beaten by a side that on the night was better than them by a country mile and instead of giving out about players who didn't perform they attack the ref for a decision that was 100% correct.

Anyone that watches soccer regulary would know you can't touch the keeper, now people might not like it but thats what happens, and anyone that looks at the incident will clearly see that John Terry prevents the keeper from jumping by leaning his arm on the keepers shoulder.

England didn't win because they simply weren't good enough on the night, pure and simple any other reason is simply bullsh*t.

eirebhoy

Jimmy Hill said England were robbed by the ref and if there was video referee's it would have been allowed. I can't believe people are still not admitting it was a foul on the keeper.

WhiteWashMan

oince again the racism of the majority of irish football fans shows through.

england were played off the park for most of the match and yet were denied the win by ref who is incompatent at best.

the goal by campbell's goal was good, and there was no offense. its a shame that most of the people on this thread would say it was a good goal if it had been man utd, or liverpool or whoever they 'support' on a saturday.

portugal played the better football, i thought england were very very poor for most of the game, yet still managed to hang in, and were pretty much robbed at the line by the referee.

regardless of what the biggoted magority say here...

still, i suppose its dead easy to all be armchair managers when you havent even got a team inthe championships...

WhiteWashMan

Originally posted by eirebhoy
Jimmy Hill said England were robbed by the ref and if there was video referee's it would have been allowed. I can't believe people are still not admitting it was a foul on the keeper.

i'll say this once for all the england hating fans in ireland.

john terry was already jumping.
if the keeper wants to stand under him, thats his problem. i do not see either way how it interfered with the keeper trying to get to sol campbell anyway.

god, i really cant believe how bigoted the irish really are. talk about sour. try and get over yourself you bunch of self righteous racists.

eirebhoy

WWM have a look at the pictures I posted and you will see that the keeper would have got the ball if Terry' arm wasn't on top of him. Its probably neither Campbell or Terry's fault but the keeper would have got to the ball if Terry wasn't there. Anyway, Terry was supposed to be in an offside position at one point, I'm not sure about that though.

BTW if this was Portugal -v- France, Holland or the Czech's I'd be saying the same thing. There is absolutely nothing biased in my posts.

Villain

Originally posted by WhiteWashMan
god, i really cant believe how bigoted the irish really are. talk about sour. try and get over yourself you bunch of self righteous racists.

Hey who you calling racist????

WhiteWashMan you obviously don't watch soccer very often because if you did you would know that decisions like the one against Terry happen day in day out, England were beaten fair and square, the ref made the same decision that every referee makes day in day out. They simply weren't good enough and instead of accepting that they blaim the ref.

Now if you can't debate the issue without insulting people I suggest you dont debate at all.

WhiteWashMan

Originally posted by irish1
Hey who you calling racist????

WhiteWashMan you obviously don't watch soccer very often because if you did you would know that decisions like the one against Terry happen day in day out,

doesnt make it right does it?

and i didnt say england deserve to win, i said they were robbed.
im happy portugal won, because i think england have been very poor throughout the whole campaign.

its the level of hatred shown by 'the majority' of irish people towards england that disgusts me.

por

Originally posted by irish1
the ref made the same decision that every referee makes day in day out.

That's where the problem lies. No ref in the world would give a last minute gaol decision against the host country in a game where they played the opposition off the park for 80mins.

The ref should be able to call on video replay in a situation like that to help him make the correct call.

Imposter

imo it was a 50-50 challenge and while Terry or Campbell were not trying to foul the keeper they did impede him. Most refs would probably give it but some may not. If it was allowed you can be sure Portugal would be blaming the ref today too.

However blaming the penalty spot I find laughable.

eirebhoy

Originally posted by por
The ref should be able to call on video replay in a situation like that to help him make the correct call.

Do you think the goal would have been allowed if video evidence was used?

The definition of impede is:
To retard or obstruct the progress of.

Terry obstructed the progress of Ricardo. If a player goes up for a header and puts a hand on one of the oppositions shoulders, making it harder for him to get the ball, the right decision would be a freekick to the impeded player. No?

Villain

Originally posted by por
The ref should be able to call on video replay in a situation like that to help him make the correct call.

He made the correct call if Terry hadn't of put his hand on the keepers shoulder, either the keeper would have saved it or Sol would have scored and wouldn't have been a foul. I just hope that every time a decision like this is made in the premiership next season that people don't come here and repeat what they are saying here, because that would take a hell of a lot of threads.

eirebhoy

I'm no pro with this offside rule and I'm not being "racist" by saying this but wasn't Terry offside? Have a look at the pics, he stayed in the same spot from phase one to phase two (if they are actually phases).

first phase
second phase

jesus_thats_gre

There is four issues that need to be addressed in the football rulebook:

1) The **** off side rules involving phases of play

2) The protection given to goalkeepers (last night being a farce!)

3) The sheparding of the ball out of play to the extent where it is actually blatant obstruction

4) Dirty diving little bastards like the Portuguese. Ronaldo done some good things in the tournament but he is gonna get abused big time wheh the new PL season begins.

Davey Devil

Would have to see it on the TV to be sure, does it really matter? In my opinion Terry had his arm on the keeper thus impeadeding him. Everyone knows refs ary very protective of keepers and once you put an arm on them it's a free kick. I gaurantee that if it was at the other end and Gomes had his arm on James, Motty and Royle would be crying out for a free-kick. Looking at the English press today you would swear it was bigger than The Great Train Robbery, did they see the match stats? Also they'll never admit that Owen is a diving bas*ard too.


Portugal.........................................England
32................Total Shots...................16
8................Shots on target...............8
716................Passes.......................524
550..............Passes completed........324
13..............Corner kicks.....................9
43 mins.......Ball Possession............27 mins
61%...............Ball possession %.......39%

LizardKing

Originally posted by WhiteWashMan

its the level of hatred shown by 'the majority' of irish people towards england that disgusts me.

Lets not get into politics here but there is a *little* history between the 2 nations , england are not a popular country throughout europe (not just ireland) , there are many reasons why England are unpopular ... I do think however the hatred and animosity is lessening ...

MisterAnarchy

Englands excuses
1.The referee disallowed a valid goal
2.If Rooney wasnt injured England would have won.
3.English season is too long.The players were tired.
4.Didnt have enough rest between games.


England deserved to lose.
They made absolutely no effort to play football.
Portugal albeit they were impotent at least tried to play football.
Beckham ,Gerard and Scholes were anonymous. The problem stems from English football. In the premiership there is no onus on retaining the
ball and passing it ,all bar 2 teams Man Utd and Arsenal most of whose players are foreign.
Jonhny Giles summed it up perfectly when he said you cant win a tournament without a midfield. England have no playmaker,someone who can play simple passes to retain possession.
England were tired because they were chasing the ball and trying to defend for over 2 hours. Its a crazy strategy and I am delighted they were knocked out as it is a vindication for football. They brought on
Phil Neville and Hargreaves,two mullickers. England did defend well but that isnt enough .
Bottom line is they arent good enough.
I have nothing against them but I always like the purist side to win.
The team who plays the football.

mike65

This just in!

UEFA to Look at Referee's Performance

From Martyn Ziegler, PA Chief Sports Reporter, Lisbon


Swiss referee Urs Meier will have his performance during the England v Portugal quarter-final match rated by UEFA before deciding whether he will officiate in the tournament again.

With Switzerland out of the tournament, Meier is one of several referees competing to be in charge of a semi-final or the final itself.

However, there has been harsh criticism in England of Meier’s performance, particularly for ruling out a Sol Campbell headed goal for a foul by John Terry on Portuguese keeper Ricardo.

UEFA’s referees committee will evaluate Meier’s performance as well as those of the two officials in charge of the remaining quarter-finals before announcing on Monday who will be in charge for the last three fixtures.

Italian referee Pierluigi Collina and Germany’s Markus Merk are favourites to fill two of the berths but no decision on the semi-finals or the final has been taken yet. This is Collina’s last major tournament but as he was in charge of the opening match it is less likely he will get the final as well.

UEFA communications spokesman William Gaillard said: “The referees committee will look at the quality of the refereeing as well as their nationality – obviously they cannot be in charge of a match involving their country.”

He said refereeing standards in the tournament overall had been very good.

“There are tough decisions to take sometimes and emotionally it can be difficult to accept for one team,” said Gaillard. “But given the speed at which some of these matches have been played, we have seen some excellent refereeing.

Now if Collina had been the ref we'd have seen a different and better game.

Mike.

Devious

Originally posted by WhiteWashMan

and i didnt say england deserve to win, i said they were robbed.

My oh my those are some pretty sour grapes you're chewing on there. Grow up.

eirebhoy

Originally posted by mike65
Now if Collina had been the ref we'd have seen a different and better game.

Forgive me for having a bad memory but other than the disallowed goal, what other controversial decision did the ref make?

Davey Devil

Football is a great game that most of us love. The fairest result is when the best team wins. Portugal were the best team last night and deserved their win. Ref excuse or not nobody can say England deserved to win that game. Justice was done and the better team is in the semi's, England are deservedly on the way home.

mike65

Originally posted by eirebhoy
Forgive me for having a bad memory but other than the disallowed goal, what other controversial decision did the ref make?

I felt he was buying the Portugese play acting and was fussy regarding keepers and goal mouth argy-bargy.

Mike.

eirebhoy

Originally posted by MisterAnarchy
England have no playmaker,someone who can play simple passes to retain possession.

A playmaker is someone like Deco of Portugal, the player you described is a holding midfielder. I agree and I said it before, you won't go far without a holding midfielder and it is the reason for their terrible defensive record. Their defenders are usually always fantastic but they still conceded 6 goals in the tournament, a holding midfielder would have probably solved that. Switzerland, France and Portugal had more possession than them and again, a holding midfielder would have helped. They are the only team I can think of without one. France-Makelele, Holland-Cocu, Portugal-Costinha, Germany-Hamann, Italy-Zanetti/Gattuso, Spain-Albelda, Czech-Galasek, England-????.

mike65

I thougth about Ledley King for that role then his wife went into labour....! Not that Sven would'nt have selected him anyways.

Mike.

Ping Chow Chi

I can see why the ref gave a foul, though I imagin it would have been different if it wasn't right at the death of the game or against the host nation. I think the goalie was completely wrong footed and that was why he couldn't get the ball, infact I would wager that sol would have scored if Terry wasn't there. That said, he was there and the goalie did make contact with him, giving ample opportunity to award a foul.

It was a bad call and I thought that the ref was in general poor, but no where near as poor as the ref in the Italy v Korea match The host nations always gain an advantage, you only have to look at who won what world cups in what countries to see this. England 1966

Poor old Sol though, this is the second time this has happend to him and I thought he was one of the few English players who did play really well last night

What shocked me was just how poor the English midfield was - I know England struggle for a decent left sided player, but the four who started should have played better than that.


At the end of the day - its just a bunch of millionairs poncing around with a ball though ;p

MisterAnarchy

You are correct Eirebhoy.
From those pictures it seems Terry was offside at the point the first header was made and is definitely interfering with play as he becomes active when the ball rebounds off the cross bar.

pickarooney

Highlights here

redspider

eirebhoy, I think you deserve an analysts medal for spotting that, yes, Terry was indeed offisde and obviously interfering with play. I didnt spot this at all in the melee that ensued and in all the analysis that was concentrating on whether Terry had fouled. He had his arm up and impeded the keeper which is a clear foul. As some have pointed out, anyone that plays football knows that you cant touch the keeper.

The link for those that want to see the goal again is:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/virtualreplay/euro2004/index.shtml?25002

The linesman may have missed the offisde as Terry actually went over the goalline in the nets and his vision would have been impeded, but just as Campbell headed the ball the first time, he was in an offside position.

There is a potential snag in the argument though. If Campbell got the first header, and since he then got the second header, its officially not a pass to another player! I realise that many refs miss this in other games, but officially Campbell was still in posession (although millions of people around the world at that moment didnt think so!). And if it wasnt a pass, Terry cant be offside.

You should contact the analsyst at the BBC to see if they make any response.


By the way, as for that person that posted that all the Irish were bigoted against the English etc, shouldn't that type of comment warrant a ban (gandalf, talla?)? Clearly they were trying to stir the proverbial.

WhiteWashMan

Originally posted by Devious
My oh my those are some pretty sour grapes you're chewing on there. Grow up.

wow. intelligent post. perhaps I should put some owrds in your mouth?

Originally posted by Devious
you are right whitewashman. england were robbed. i am much humbled by your footballing authority, and i promise not to act like a silly person again. once more, i apologise.

redspider

In terms of the ref's perfromance, I felt that he was poor in other areas. For example, he didnt get the walls back the full 10 yards, and this affected both teams, but most notably Figo who couldn't get the ball up and down with a wall only 7-yards away.

He nitpicked a fair bit and awarded fouls easily even when they were good tackels and I also thought that he did tended to favour Portugal. I cant remember any blatant examples but I remarked that at the time.

I dont think he should ref the final, that should be Collina's.


ps: mods, whitewashman is at it again. I propose that he is banned from this forum for his postings in this thread.

WhiteWashMan

Originally posted by redspider



ps: mods, whitewashman is at it again. I propose that he is banned from this forum for his postings in this thread.

whinge whinge, complain complain.

are you 7 years old?

gandalf

WhiteWashman banned from Soccer for the above **** stirring.

BTW redspider next time use the report this thread link so the mods can see these things alot faster.

Thread Closed.