Its the France - Greece Thread!

mike65

France to win but with much huffing and puffing.

3-1

Mike.

eirebhoy

I think France will just scrape a win TBH. Shouldn't be more than 1 or 2 goals in it.

KdjaCL

2-0 over in 1st half.

I ALWAYS wrong.

kdjac

Harry2001

Good start from Greece, France poor so far

thejollyrodger

obviously its france to win on paper but from what im seeing im not impressed with the "best" team in this tournament.

WTF is Zidane starting out on the left for ? another unbalanced side, i would put saha on with Henry.

The french look to be playing the same predicatable balls through the middle and dont seem to be getting anywhere.

Im not writing Greece off yet and expect them to score at some point. To be brutally honest im not as worried now about the french in the world cup qualifiers.

mike65

Barthez is the best player on the pictch at this point. The French supporters are certainly letting thier "heroes" know what they think of them.

Mike.

KdjaCL

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz



kdjac

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

Stiltskin

Saha and Wiltord on now. Should be an interesting last 20 mins.

thejollyrodger

I just woke up... its what the french deserved with such a bad attitude

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

mike65

Rock and Roll!

I mean Nana Mouskouri

Mike.

Pepe LeFrits

haha, how poor were France... excellent tactical performance by Greece though.

KdjaCL

Better 2nd half ,france were poor and Zagarakis is added to my Dream team ,played very well.

Greece got what they deserved and another damn fine goal ,if that was on sky Andy gray be having babies watching it.

kdjac

thejollyrodger

dreadful play by the french..

unbalanced team at the beginning.
team looks over the hill
no team play, no conviction
why wasnt Saha on at the beginning?

bye bye Zidance, over the hill has been etc etc

we have a real chance of winning our group for the WCQ2006

Raskolnikov

Terrible, terrible performance from France, they deserved to lose that one.

TwoShedsJackson

Fair play to Greece, thoroughly deserved, France were crap for 99.9% of that.

mike65

Originally posted by thejollyrodger
we have a real chance of winning our group for the WCQ2006

Beware the backlash!

Mike.

thejollyrodger

backlash ? wasnt this meant to be "Zidane's" tournament as he said so himself? France like Germany have been on decline for a while now, except no one has called it.

I dont rate the French like I used to, they were poor all over the park. Whether a new manager can change it all around remains to be seen. I dont think they can, it usually takes a while to build a team and tatics. I can see Ireland giving the French and Swiss a good run for their money

Raskolnikov

Originally posted by thejollyrodger
backlash ? wasnt this meant to be "Zidane's" tournament as he said so himself?

In fairness, Zidane wasn't the worst of the French players tonight and it was because of him that France even got to the quarter finals.

Dewey

I really did fall asleep in the first half.
I thought it was a really poor game and i'm not surprised France got knocked out with the way they were playing. They never got going but full credit to Greece for beating them they deserve to win and the goal was brilliant.

Cant belive how poor Henry was. He had to great chances to score with his head and he missed. David Trezeguet was crap for 70minutes and Saha did more in the 20mins then he did in the 70mins, he should of been taken off at half-time.

I have to say, i'm not worried when the World Cup Quilifiers come along in September. I know from the 2 games against them we get a few points off them. And we deserve some revenge against the Swiss so its looking good, but i am worried about who will become the new France boss and if Zidane will stay on.

Stiltskin

I'd be more worried about the drive and inspiration of Viera than the skills of Zidane tbh. Without him France seemed a bit directionless tonight.

Big Ears

this is our group and fixtures for the World Cup qualifying . Seems like we should come first , but its too bad we dont get the French in the first 2 games . http://www.mychelseafc.com/06_world_cup/group_4.htm

mike65

I wonder if Didier Deschamps would fancy the national job? or Jean Tigana?

Mike.

conZ

Shocked and appauled at the result. France played brutal, fair play to Greece though.

England, France, Germany, Italy and Spain out so far (from the top teams).

Portugal, Czech, Holland, Sweden, Denmark and Greece left. It's up in the air atm, I dont know who will win tbh.

Gordon

"National Miracle"

Great stuff! I thought France played better in the second half but totally guffed any attempts after the goal. wasn't too happy how Greece played defence after the 1-0 but I guess that tactic worked.

Oh the partying in Greece that was had last night...

woosaysdan

Originally posted by Big Ears
this is our group and fixtures for the World Cup qualifying . Seems like we should come first , but its too bad we dont get the French in the first 2 games . http://www.mychelseafc.com/06_world_cup/group_4.htm

yeah we chould of come top of the group for euro 2004 qualifiers aswell though!!!

vorbis

I said it earlier on. Santini is a ****e manager. His tactics have been constraining and destroying France from day one. Last night was a perfect example. He should have played two wingers from the start, preferably Pires and Rothen. Trezeguet for whatever reason does not seem to be at the races. It would have been a tough decision but Saha should hae started. You know something is wrong when its Henry who's getting the heading opportunities!

With a proper manager, France will be a very different proposition in September. Zidane and Lizarou will probablt retire. Still though a midfield four of Pires Vieira Makelele and Rothen is quite tasty.

eirebhoy

Originally posted by vorbis
France will be a very different proposition in September. Zidane and Lizarou will probablt retire.

Desailly, Thuram and Bartez could all retire too. This was the peak of the current set of players and they failed to take advantage of it. There will be big changes to the team and we could see a completely different back 4 by the time we face them. My view of the French is still the same as it was before this championship TBH and I wouldn't get carried away. Automatic qualification (whether we come first or second) can/should definitely be acheived though. Hopefully the Swizz underestimate us and expect the same team that they beat the last time. This is the team that played in Basel:

__________________Given____________________

Carr________Breen_________O'Shea________Harte

Duff_________Holland_______Healy________Kilbane

___________Connolly______Keane______________

Only 2 of those players (Keane, Given) are guaranteed to be playing in Basel (in the same position and with the exception of injuries, etc.). Holland and Carr look likely to start, other than that the team is completely different. Also, the likes of Holland and Robbie Keane play better with Roy and Morrison respectively.

The only teams I won't be expecting to beat twice is France and Israel. A draw away against France and Israel would be great. A draw against Switzerland would be OK.

Big Ears

I agree pretty much with Eirebhoy I wouldny expect more than a draw away to Israel , but France I think we should beat .

I beleive France will have a good squad for the qualifyiers and there problem will be that it will be a totally new team , not that they're poor . Mexes should get his game from now on .

Im interested who will play in goals for France , Ramé and Coupet are just as old as Barthez , but Frey is inexperienced at internationel level . Id start with Frey but I suspect the new manager will use Coupet .

Makelele has seemed to be very commited to his football since his move to Chelsea so I would use a midfield of : Pires Viera Giuly Rothen .

up front should either be a pairing of Trezegeut and Saha or Henry with Giuly (taking him out of midfield and putting some1 else in ) , the reason for the Henry pairing with Giuly is because Henry dosent play aswell beside a natural striker .

I also wonder will Silvestre be used as a left or centre back (with the likely retirment of Lizarazu ) .


With all this massive change this is why I beleive Ireland will win the group , because the change to the Ireland team (Roy Keane , Barret , Reid Miller ,Mceady , OBrien) has already undergone .

bizmark

Why do you think isreal is so good? there 57th in the world ffs hardly world super powers i cant bleave you think we should be worryed about isreal and not france and the swis !!!!

Big Ears

Look back on the word in bold in my post : away .

Playing in Israel can put players off their game , and there is a frightning atmostphere there similiar to in Tehran (when we lost 1-0 ) .

What ive said may seem ridiculos now but I wont be after we have played Israel away .

Id expect a 2 or 3 nil or 3-1 win at home though .

Pepe LeFrits

Pires Vieira Giuly Rothen is a dreadful midfield, they might aswell play 6 strikers instead of that.

I think if anything France's appalling Euro2004 will be bad for Ireland, France will be out to make amends. Ireland's biggest hope is to catch France in a transition. France need to get rid of the old faces and bring in some fresh talent, such as the likes of Evra, Mexes, Mendy, Rothen, Pedretti and so on. A number of the French squad played on reputation alone in Euro2004.

Big Ears

Originally posted by kaids
Pires Vieira Giuly Rothen is a dreadful midfield, they might aswell play 6 strikers instead of that.

I think if anything France's appalling Euro2004 will be bad for Ireland, France will be out to make amends. Ireland's biggest hope is to catch France in a transition. France need to get rid of the old faces and bring in some fresh talent, such as the likes of Evra, Mexes, Mendy, Rothen, Pedretti and so on. A number of the French squad played on reputation alone in Euro2004.

I agree with catching France in transition as I have already stated , but what is your prefered French team ?

Pepe LeFrits

Depends on who retires over the next few months, and how the likes of Cisse and Mexes play in their new, more competitive surroundings.

Unless Barthez retires, keep him in goal. Otherwise, Coupet or Frey will do. Evra at left-back, Sagnol or Mendy at right-back. At centre-back, Gallas and either Silvestre, Mexes, or Boumsong. If Zidane retires i'd go with a midfield of Pires, Makelele, Vieira and Giuly. Depending on club form, Pedretti might be a better option for Makelele. In attack, Henry partnering either Saha or Cisse.

Personally, I think a lot of managers find attacking centre midfielders very hard to accomodate. Santini tried to include Zidane by playing him wide, which in the end left France with no width and when Zidane was piss poor last night, so were France. Henry should be left to roam with Evra zooming up the left flank outside Pires, and Giuly and Sagnol linking up on the right. Makelele/Pedretti holding in midfield, and Vieira roaming around the centre of the field linking up the play.

eirebhoy

Originally posted by bizmark
Why do you think isreal is so good? there 57th in the world ffs hardly world super powers i cant bleave you think we should be worryed about isreal and not france and the swis !!!!

Have a look at the results of both teams at home. Make sure you're looking at Israel's home results and not those on neutral ground. They haven't lost at home since '99 (13 matches) and they have only lost 3 in their last 26. Switzerland's record is poor and their team is in decline while ours is on the up.

Israel
Swizerland

Big Ears

Kaids u called my midfiled dreadful yet the only difference between yours and mine is I have Rothen in the side because of Makelele terible club and country form this year .

and Eirebhoy has helped prove the point that a draw in Israel will be a good result .

eirebhoy

Originally posted by Big Ears
Kaids u called my midfiled dreadful yet the only difference between yours and mine is I have Rothen in the side because of Makelele terible club and country form this year.

Dropping Makelele for Rothen would actually make the midfield dreadful TBH. England showed that you won't go far without a holding midfielder no matter how good the players are as individuals.

Pepe LeFrits

Originally posted by Big Ears
Kaids u called my midfiled dreadful yet the only difference between yours and mine is I have Rothen in the side because of Makelele terible club and country form this year .

yes, and Giuly playing in the centre... i'm sure that would provide their defence with a lot of hard tackling cover :rolleyes:

Big Ears

Viera as the holding midfield player .
With Makelele and Viera in the same team u have no attacking options as the French have shown in the tournament .

While England on the other side of things had no holding midfield player (Gerrard isnt a natural holding midfielder ) .

I suppose Kaids ur midfield would line up like :

..............................................Makelele...................


......................................Viera.................................

Giuly................................................................Pires

Pepe LeFrits

Originally posted by Big Ears
Viera as the holding midfield player .
With Makelele and Viera in the same team u have no attacking options as the French have shown in the tournament .

Which is a chronic waste of Vieira, as he is not a holding midfielder.

While England on the other side of things had no holding midfield player (Gerrard isnt a natural holding midfielder ) .

I suppose Kaids ur midfield would line up like :

..............................................Makelele...................


......................................Viera.................................

Giuly................................................................Pires

No attacking options? Strange, Arsenal play Vieira in the centre, Pires on the left, Gilberto in the holding role (Makelele), and Ljungberg on the right (Giuly is more attacking than Ljungberg). France struggled for a wide number of reasons, one of which was that they lacked width. They didn't lack attacking options, they lacked ideas and played too narrow.

Big Ears

this is my and mister Anarchy (although he said playmaker he was just confused ) defintion of a holding midfield player :someone who can play simple passes to retain possession , they also track back and tackle .

Viera already does this for Arsenal , I know u will say Gilberto does , but they both actually do the same job .

Using Viera as a holding midfielder dosent mean he cant start attacks .

At the moment I would rather (in your words ) waste Viera as a holding midfielder than have Makelele non existent and being no use to the side at all .

Pepe LeFrits

Originally posted by Big Ears
this is my and mister Anarchy (although he said playmaker he was just confused ) defintion of a holding midfield player :someone who can play simple passes to retain possession , they also track back and tackle .

Viera already does this for Arsenal , I know u will say Gilberto does , but they both actually do the same job .

Using Viera as a holding midfielder dosent mean he cant start attacks .

At the moment I would rather (in your words ) waste Viera as a holding midfielder than have Makelele non existent and being no use to the side at all .

A holding midfielder is one who sits deep in midfield, in front of the back 4, protects them from deep runs from midfield, breaks up attacks and links up play with simple passes. From what i've seen this year, Makelele has done this well.

Vieira does not do the job of holding midfielder for Arsenal, Gilberto does, and if you watched Arsenal on anything more than a match of the day highlights basis, you'd know this. Vieira roams all over the pitch, makes surging runs forward, charges down players, tackles hard in the centre and sprays passes around. This is his talent, having him in a conservative deep role not having much influence over play is a waste. When he's caught out of possession, Gilberto/Makelele is there to provide cover. Giuly, Rothen and Pires are hardly going to do that.

With your setup you are essentially playing 4 defensive minded players (and 2 of those, the fullbacks, like to get forward), and 6 offensive minded players. Very unbalanced.

eirebhoy

Vieira would get caught out too much if he was used as a holding midfielder. Think of a holding midfielder as the player who sits behind the back 4, it would be a waste of Vieira's talents if he had to do that. A player usually takes the role when they get a bit older, Davids seems to do it for Holland, he wasn't exactly a holding midfielder this time two years ago. The same goes the likes of for Roy Keane and Gary Speed (to an extent).

Big Ears

Originally posted by kaids
A holding midfielder is one who sits deep in midfield, in front of the back 4, protects them from deep runs from midfield, breaks up attacks and links up play with simple passes. From what i've seen this year, Makelele has done this well.

Vieira does not do the job of holding midfielder for Arsenal, Gilberto does, and if you watched Arsenal on anything more than a match of the day highlights basis, you'd know this. Vieira roams all over the pitch, makes surging runs forward, charges down players, tackles hard in the centre and sprays passes around. This is his talent, having him in a conservative deep role not having much influence over play is a waste. When he's caught out of possession, Gilberto/Makelele is there to provide cover. Giuly, Rothen and Pires are hardly going to do that.

With your setup you are essentially playing 4 defensive minded players (and 2 of those, the fullbacks, like to get forward), and 6 offensive minded players. Very unbalanced.

i didnt name my full backs . But in my opinion with Arsenal its not a case of Gilberto being the holding player and Viera going froward more , I beleive they switch the role quite often , one goes while the other stays .

As an Arsenal fan u should know that Gilberto makes quite a few runs , not as much as Viera but none the less he Viera does sit in the holding role when Gilberto makes runs .

Thinking about this properly Eirebhoy Viera probably would get caught out i just beleive Makelele has been very poor this season . Any recomendations for other French holding player .

for instance France could play with a holding player (who is in better form mthan Makelele ) with Viera ahead of him Pires as a right winger , Rothen as a left winger and Giuly playing behind Henry .

Big Ears

Well so far the only other option to Makelele is Dacourt , so it seems the French are short of holding midfielder .

eirebhoy

I don't think Makelele has had a bad season. If he's anonymous in a few matches its a credit to Chelsea and France for keeping the ball in the oppositions half. He's around when needed IMO. Madrid are lost without him anyway.

Pepe LeFrits

Originally posted by Big Ears
i didnt name my full backs . But in my opinion with Arsenal its not a case of Gilberto being the holding player and Viera going froward more , I beleive they switch the role quite often , one goes while the other stays .

As an Arsenal fan u should know that Gilberto makes quite a few runs , not as much as Viera but none the less he Viera does sit in the holding role when Gilberto makes runs .

Thinking about this properly Eirebhoy Viera probably would get caught out i just beleive Makelele has been very poor this season . Any recomendations for other French holding player .

for instance France could play with a holding player (who is in better form mthan Makelele ) with Viera ahead of him Pires as a right winger , Rothen as a left winger and Giuly playing behind Henry .

Gilberto makes the occasional run, as does Sol Campbell and Kolo Toure. Most of the time though, he's sitting deep in midfield while Paddy is strutting around well infront of him.

Pedretti, Dacourt and Dabo are the other options. Pedretti is a bit more of a midfield quarterback type, but I reckon he'd be able to do the job if necessary. I don't think Dacourt is good enough, don't know about Dabo.

Big Ears

Aswell as pedretti , Dabo and Dacourt , Lionel Mathis , Luccin and Proment are the only other players I could think of to fill the role .

also Gilberto makes a lot more runs than Campbell .

Edited for spelling .