The verdict on the England midfield

smuckers

Saw this in The Times a v good analysis.

Beckham:

Missed two pivotal penalties, did little at free kicks, was off the pace in all four games and did not close Simao quick enough when he crossed for Helder Postigas equaliser.

Verdict: a big time-loser who have have done serious damage to his precious image.

Scholes: Strangely critisised for his performances in England's group games when, in fact, he was the teams most creative midfield force in each of them- despite operating out of position on the left. Let himself down, however, against Portugal. In Scholes's excellent career it is difficult to remember another performace so pallid.

Verdict: On a balance a loser and where to play him is becoming a headache.

Lampard:

Too sluggish of foot at times and got himself caught on the ball. Lampard's enthusiasm and boldness won out, however and his three goals in four games, where a magnificant return from centre midfield.

Verdict: a winner overall but needs to keep improving.

Gerrard:

England hoped he would take the tournament by the scruff of the neck and Erickson changed his formation to give the Liverpool midfielder every chance. It never quite happened and in the quarter final showed that he has still not grown out of his immature habit of trying to make every ball a killer pass. Not a 31m player yet.

Verdict: a loser who will need to repay England at the 2006 world cup

Hargreaves:

He beats one, he beats two.. he falls over. When Hargreaves stumbled on to the ground on what had begun as a promising run late in the game against Portugal, it encapsulated why he is England's nearly man.

Verdict: Loser who will be fortunate to remain a bit part player.

mike65

Saw that, not sure I agree entirely. Lampard and Gerrard were too samey, Scholes was on the left and Gerrard was when Scholes was'nt.

Svens biggest goof was the refusal to play a true left-sided player like Bridge.

Also I'd have dropped Lampard for the final game and put King on a a defensive midfielder but he had to return home anyway...

Beckham was pants as were all the Real Madrid players really. Hargreves has yet to convince me he's worth the hype.

Mike.

Pigman II

Lampard isn't a winner either. Not much use getting three goals from midfield when your team leaks 6 in the same 3 games.

Englands midfield (esp Beckham) were a disgrace all tournament and let down what were a very good back-four and forward line.

Harry2001

I see Beckham was complaining today about the conditioning training at Real Madrid and said he did not have the same levels of energy late in the season as he had at Old Trafford.

Gerrard was the biggest disappointment for me, his passing was brutal in the Portugal game, Scholes was ok but tired too easily. Still not sure about Lampard who apart from his three goals did not impress and for a international captain Beckham was invisible throughout the tournament and should give up the armband now!

Sven needs to re-work the midfield for the qualifiers

smemon

beckham at the moment is going downhill fast and needs to get his act together OFF THE PITCH. as a player, his game will always be there and he can add something to any side. it's the circus and sheer volume of coverage of the man that follows him about that is killing him as a player.

moving to madrid has ruined him and left very vulnerable. at utd he was always protected and fergie made sure his football came 1st, not his image. madrid havnt controlled him and just let him go anywere and do anything as a marketing tool. he needs to be back in england imo to get his game back on track before it's too late, he'd be a fool to reject chelsea.

scholes being a loser is rubbish, the guy is one of the best players in the world, his position is simple- just behind the front man/men. he's wasted on the left and in central midfield.

gerrard is a big bluffer and always has been. he cant pass the ball and what makes it worse is he thinks he can and keeps trying 50/60yard diagonal balls. himself and owen are what i'd call fake superstars, just like say a fake jersey, you can always tell the difference when placed beside a real thing.

lampard again is a class act, all he needs is a bit more time in europe with chelsea.

Pepe LeFrits

Originally posted by smemon
scholes being a loser is rubbish, the guy is one of the best players in the world, his position is simple- just behind the front man/men. he's wasted on the left and in central midfield.

None of them are losers, but they have been poor in the tournament, which is what they were referring to...

I wonder what the fitness setup at Madrid is like. Madrid's season completely collapsed at the end and a lot of their players at Euro2004 have looked tired and have played below par - Beckham, Figo, Zidane (dreadful & tired against Greece), Raul etc.

Jivin Turkey

Originally posted by smemon
beckham at the moment is going downhill fast and needs to get his act together OFF THE PITCH. as a player, his game will always be there and he can add something to any side. it's the circus and sheer volume of coverage of the man that follows him about that is killing him as a player.

moving to madrid has ruined him and left very vulnerable. at utd he was always protected and fergie made sure his football came 1st, not his image. madrid havnt controlled him and just let him go anywere and do anything as a marketing tool. he needs to be back in england imo to get his game back on track before it's too late, he'd be a fool to reject chelsea.

scholes being a loser is rubbish, the guy is one of the best players in the world, his position is simple- just behind the front man/men. he's wasted on the left and in central midfield.

gerrard is a big bluffer and always has been. he cant pass the ball and what makes it worse is he thinks he can and keeps trying 50/60yard diagonal balls. himself and owen are what i'd call fake superstars, just like say a fake jersey, you can always tell the difference when placed beside a real thing.

lampard again is a class act, all he needs is a bit more time in europe with chelsea.

Are you by chance a United fan?

"Fake superstars" just because they had a bad tournament, are Henry and Zidane fake superstars too?

KdjaCL

After seeing the tea, play i would stick Cole or Defoe(fast skillful intent on attacking ) on the left and play Scholes behind Rooney up front.

With the others as is in a attack minded midfield.

OMG did i just say owen should be dropped:eek:


A 4 3 3

kdjac

Big Ears

Yes he is and he is a quite biased one .

But he does give honest opinions (even if they are wrong )

Dewey

On Paper England had one of the best midfeilds in the tourament. But Sven got it all wrong by playing players out of position.

Sven should never of played Gerrard and Lampard in the Midfeild, they are both attacking midfeilder and dont like to sit back, and it was a huge mistake playing Scholes out of position. Sven should of gone with aholding Midfeilder like Nicky Butt with Lampard of Gerrard. Or even Butt and Scholes and play Gerrard on the left.

Beckham is over-rated but for his standards he had a really bad tourament. He said he didnt cross the ball as much because its a new ball.......Its the same ball for everyone else Becks, do what you good at.

I think in the Portugal game he took off Scholes for P.Neville.....why?? and what about Joe Cole? he would of been great to have on for a bit of pace. or even Dyer.

I belive the Midfeild left down England but i'm not surprised. The players are saying the feel they can win the World Cup.......not with Sven there.

Big Ears

Beckham should have less of an excuse about crossing the ball than any one else because to my knowledge he tests them for Adidas .

He definetly tested the World Cup ball , im sure of that , so I suppose Adidas would get him to test the new ball for them .

jesus_thats_gre

Originally posted by smuckers

Lampard:

Too sluggish of foot at times and got himself caught on the ball. Lampard's enthusiasm and boldness won out, however and his three goals in four games, where a magnificant return from centre midfield.

Verdict: a winner overall but needs to keep improving.

Gerrard:

England hoped he would take the tournament by the scruff of the neck and Erickson changed his formation to give the Liverpool midfielder every chance. It never quite happened and in the quarter final showed that he has still not grown out of his immature habit of trying to make every ball a killer pass. Not a 31m player yet.

Verdict: a loser who will need to repay England at the 2006 world cup

I can honestly say that both Lampard and Gerard were massive disappointments in the tournament. I would even say that they are not suited to playing together at all. Fair enough, Lampard got 3 goals while Gerard only got 1, but that is not enough to justify the statement that Lampard is a winner while Gerard is a loser.

Oddly enough, Gerard has liftd more trophies than Lampard has in a shortter period of time.

jesus_thats_gre

Originally posted by smemon
beckham at the moment is going downhill fast and needs to get his act together OFF THE PITCH. as a player, his game will always be there and he can add something to any side. it's the circus and sheer volume of coverage of the man that follows him about that is killing him as a player.

moving to madrid has ruined him and left very vulnerable. at utd he was always protected and fergie made sure his football came 1st, not his image. madrid havnt controlled him and just let him go anywere and do anything as a marketing tool. he needs to be back in england imo to get his game back on track before it's too late, he'd be a fool to reject chelsea.

scholes being a loser is rubbish, the guy is one of the best players in the world, his position is simple- just behind the front man/men. he's wasted on the left and in central midfield.

gerrard is a big bluffer and always has been. he cant pass the ball and what makes it worse is he thinks he can and keeps trying 50/60yard diagonal balls. himself and owen are what i'd call fake superstars, just like say a fake jersey, you can always tell the difference when placed beside a real thing.

lampard again is a class act, all he needs is a bit more time in europe with chelsea.

Ah sure welcome back smemon, have not heard a peep out of ya in ages.

Back to the daily chores so.... Gerard is a fake? Come on. What do you use as justification in saying Lampard is the real deal and Gerard is a fake?

uberwolf

Originally posted by Dewey
On Paper England had one of the best midfeilds

TBH the only paper you'll see that is on is British tabloid paper
As individual players in their ideal positions they are all competive players but all have yet to prove themselves as world class. Becks may have fatally wounded his chance of ever being considered that in hindsight, the rest have to show significant improvement.

Of course tactics negated most of their strengths anyway.

super_furry

Eriksson's problem is that he insists on playing what he believes is his best eleven individual players, with no thought given to positional play. Scholes as a left midfielder is a joke, Gerrard as a holding midfielder is a joke, Beckham as a right winger is a joke. He's trying to fit square pegs into round holes, just so he can play them all.

eirebhoy

Originally posted by Dewey
On Paper England had one of the best midfeilds in the tourament.

The only thing I can see from looking at the midfield on paper is Sven hasn't got a clue. People are making too much about playing players out of position, the only player he played out of position (from what I seen anyway) was Scholes on the left. France played Zidane on the left and he still made his presence felt, Nedved is one of the players of the tournament and he's playing on the left. His biggest mistake was leaving Butt out of the France match and maybe King in the middle for the others.

Big Ears

Ah but Nedved has played on the left for both Juve and the Czechs before .

Washout

On Paper England had one of the best midfeilds in the tourament.

England didnt have one of the best midfields in the tournament and Ill tell you why.

I think Sven proved the fact that you just cant pick the 4 best english attcking midfielders.
By playing attacking midfielders who are set as individuals to come forward themselveswith the ball the midfield loses its shape.

Every team needs a defensive midfielder who plays the holding role but is also able to create defense into attack by a simple intelligent pass . That player who gels the midfield together. Keane for Utd, Viera for Arsenal. England dont have such a player.

I believe Beckham is struggling at real madrid and with england because he doesnt have a keane or viera type player who are so good at setting up the ball for him and getting him open

I mean for the France Game and Portugal game, England were on the Rack for the majority of it and why? cause Both terasmwere able to so easily bypass the english midfield.

(PS im probalby talking out of me arse but its my theory)

Big Ears

Kaids will probably want to correct u that Gilberto is the holding midfielder at Arsenal .

Pepe LeFrits

Correct. Keane's role at Man Utd has changed over the past while, and his equivalents for the other teams are Gilberto, Makelele, Hamann etc.

England's midfield lacked a holding midfielder, and it also badly lacked width and pace. It had 4 players who were all very similar, and as a result was very narrow and one-paced. England badly need a pacey winger or two, particularily a left footed one.

Dewey

I'm not saying England's Midfeild is or was the best in the tourament. But when you look at the players.... Beckham.....Gerrard.....Lampard.....Scholes.......,
That is a very good midfeild......ON PAPER. But as i said, what england needed was a holding midfeilder like Butt. I think if Sven had of went with a holding midfeilder beside Gerrard or Lampard, England might still be in this tourament.

eirebhoy

Originally posted by Dewey
I'm not saying England's Midfeild is or was the best in the tourament. But when you look at the players.... Beckham.....Gerrard.....Lampard.....Scholes.......,
That is a very good midfeild......ON PAPER. But as i said, what england needed was a holding midfeilder like Butt. I think if Sven had of went with a holding midfeilder beside Gerrard or Lampard, England might still be in this tourament.

If Sven went with a holding midfielder the midfield would look better on paper, don't you think? It's like saying a striking partnership of Duff and Zidane would look good on paper.

Big Ears

to some people a midfield of Figo Nedved Zidane and Duff would look good , but it would be terrible .

and it would require Nedved to sit back , which he is anwhere as good at as he is going forward .

Dewey

Originally posted by eirebhoy
If Sven went with a holding midfielder the midfield would look better on paper, don't you think? It's like saying a striking partnership of Duff and Zidane would look good on paper.

No, your missing my point. The Beckham...Gerrard...Lampard....Scholes LOOKED a very good midfeild of individual players but they didnt work together.
If Sven had of gone with Becks...Butt...Gerrard....Bridge/Dyer
the midfeild would of been balanced and i think they would of beaten Portugal with that Midfeildl.

leeroybrown

There isn't much point it saying "they would have ...". What is important is that England picked their four best midfield players and they performed poorly as a unit.

Ultimately, I'd have to lay a lot of the blame at Gerrard's feet. In the games I saw his short range passing was very poor. Considering that the holding midfielder is in the best position to get the midfield passing going with some simple accurate passes he really fell down.

Beckham was well below par but at least he could still pass. Lampard was anonymous a lot of the time as he tends to be when his team doesn't have the ball. Scholes was out of position so their inability to pass and work openings/space affected his play a lot.

phenom

I dont rate Hargreaves as a good player. When he was playing he did not look confident enough with the ball and was giving the ball away. They will have t think twice about their Midfield for the World Cup.