20-in on Sunday...

DeVore

Hyzepher and I made it to the last two tables last night and I made it (briefly) to the final table and scored 50 notes (Rossa had loaned me 40 to play, so I have your cash back Rossa. Must be my weekend to get people to give me cash
I think Chris had an ugly departure from what I heard...

I made a bit of a poor call in my opinion to exit the competition. This is something I have to excise from my game (and Hyzepher can stop nodding furiously, I know I play final table a bit wrong )

I have 20K which puts me about middle of the 8 players on the table. I have K9 hearts and I'm UTG so I flat call. This is probably my first mistake though it didnt feel like it... So, one more person calls and BB tries to throw his hand away (embarrassingly!). Flop comes 942 all spades. I've top pair and a good kicker but I'm worried about spades and will put it down if another spade arrives. BB checks, I check, 3rd player goes all in for 28K. BB folds, what do you do...

After a loooong think about it I call (so nyah nyah! to those who say I only fold when I go in the tank!). My reasoning is this... I really only have to worry about A9, pairs and the flush. He could have A9 but I reckon he doesnt cos thats a BIG bet to make when BB was trying to throw his hand away and could have two pair or if either of us fancies making a stand on a flush draw (bb is small stacked).
Pair is unlikely to have flat called in his position (late), its possible but again I really dont think so...
So I have to consider the flush possibilities... imagine you have two spades and the board comes down with 3 more... he must be a reasonable player (since he is at final table) so what would a reasonable player do with a made flush? Would you bet ALL of your chips on it and scare off two players who have already checked? I wouldnt have thought so... you'll want to get paid and that means letting us catch up.... unless you are on a spade *draw* and reckon you can push us off the (10K) pot and if you are called you have the spade outs...at least thats what I thought was likely... he had the flush made on the flop and just wasnt thinking along the lines of making chips out of it, just betting it as big as he could. *sigh*...

On my other hand I will get "Last Table Is About Longevity!" tattooed on it.

DeV.

Lafortezza

Haven't read the spoiler, but I'm guessing the all-in guy has Ace of spades and is drawing, or already has the made flush with 2 spades. I'd say he has the Ace as he called preflop at the final table with the big blinds.
Maybe he has A-9 either.

henbane

Drop it. You're going to be behind to almost everything except a stonecold bluff if another spade hits. He could be playing like he has one good spade when he has two to get a big payoff from one caller. He could be trying to push anyone with a bigger spade than his two small ones and want to take the pot now. A9 could have you beat or possibly a big overpair panicking at the sight of a flush draw if he was trying to get some value from them.

There's too much danger there for a call on the final table when you're relatively comfortable in relation to some of the stacks.

Two questions? Why call with K9h under the gun? What were the blinds?

careca

I'd agree with henbane. Drop it. He could have two spades without the ace and doesn't want anyone drawing to a higher flush. Way too much danger there. If you had bet first and were pot committed then fair enough but you would get away cheaply. Btw, even though there is a spoiler here I am presuming this is the hand you went out on so it gives us an unfair advantage!!

DeVore

blinds were 1500 and 3000. The final table has just formed and I think they all a bit skittish so the hand has potential imho. In the specific case it didnt matter what he had because the turn came a king and I would have bet that fairly big or slow played to the river which was the Ace of spades... pretty much either way I was destined to walk on that hand but I do think that I played it poorly though I really put him on a draw and when BB doesnt call, it looks tempting to make a big play and double through if he doesnt hit...

DeV.

Lafortezza

What were his actual spades that he called with preflop?
Sounds like a risky play to me. You weren't pot committed, you had 3k in the pot, 17k left and blinds weren't totally crippling you yet.
He could have made flush, top flush draw, A9 to out kicker you, of absolutely nothing. Your hand was behind/dominated in too many ways to call his all-in.
At the final table people are happy enough to take whatever is in the pot when they have a big hand, everyone fears being outdrawn by some craziness so want to kill the pot as soon as they hit.
I went out Ako vs 9Ts, he hits trip tens. How did Hyzepher do?

DeVore

he had Q8 of spades

Hyzepher was motoring nicely but I believe he found Kings while the BB found Aces...
Immovable Object, Irresistable Force.

DeV.

Juan Pablo

Saw your beat where your queens got flushed by yer man on Ac3c. That was unfortunate.

DeVore

It was worse then that, he had A3c alright but he flopped a 2 and a 4 and rivered a 5 for a straight. I was so far on tilt I was a feckin' pinball machine... its just as well I got cards for 4 hands straight as I wanted to murder someone. I made back the 16K I lost in those 4 hands!

DeV.

Hyzepher

Yep my KK met his AA and that's were it ended. The pot was about 30k so it would of set me up nicely.

Roll on next week - by the way I am still sick about it.

Hyzepher

DeVore

Why? What would you have done differently?

I hate to say this to any player (especially you ) but you're play has consistently impressed me and your record, short as it is, is pretty much consistently filled with final table appearances... you might not get to play as much as the rest of us but I havent seen you really put a foot wrong yet...

DeV.

Lafortezza

Originally posted by Hyzepher
Yep my KK met his AA and that's were it ended. The pot was about 30k so it would of set me up nicely.

Roll on next week - by the way I am still sick about it.

Hyzepher

Was it all in before the flop? If so then nothing you could do about it. Who had the AA?

Juan Pablo

Aye. I folded, Hyzepher to my left moved all in for around 13k, SB folded, BB called. Wanted to see the old dude on BB get shafted with Hyzephers Kings cause he had been moaning all night on Friday at the cash game about language/trash talking/hijinks that were going on around him, then the codger flips over the bullets .
:eek:

Well unlucky Hyzepher dude.

Hyzepher

Originally posted by DeVore
Why? What would you have done differently?

I hate to say this to any player (especially you ) but you're play has consistently impressed me and your record, short as it is, is pretty much consistently filled with final table appearances... you might not get to play as much as the rest of us but I havent seen you really put a foot wrong yet...

DeV.

Nice of you to say so - but to go out in one big hand always leaves a bitter taste regardless of the circumstances. I would play it the same way everytime but to have the whole nights work gone in one go is sickening. I think he was probably the only one that had me covered to the point that my KK had me walking.

Hyzepher

Juan Pablo

Whatever that old dudes name is, he didn't play a hand after your beat for as long as I was at the table. I lasted around 20 minutes more after you went, resorting to robbing the odd blind until my Kojack suited got collared by AQ and it was good night vienna.

PHB

Obviously it depends on the type of player he is.

If he was a good player, I'd think he has a a(spades) and a 4(random suit)
It'd be a good semi-bluff move which ever if you got called you still had a good few outs.

I might also put him on a crappy flush, like the 7 5 of spades of something.

I might also consider him on trips, and didn't want to give a free card to anyone.

Lastly I'd put him on a queen high flush, since its not how I'd play.

Obviously then theres the bluff.
--

So if he is bluffing then ya call him obviously, but really any other situation you shouldn't call.

My question to you is why didn't ya bet out with top pair? I understand the flush was on the table and you were goign to lay it down if another spade hit, but you should have at least made a stab at the pot, and not let another spade come down, no?

Hectorjelly

I think its a huge mistake to play K9 utg, this is a hand I would usually fold on the button, nevermind in early position. Unless the blinds are about to eat you up, this is a hand you can drop. Your playing a mediocre hand in the worst position!

As for the call; well the best you can realistically hope for is a semi bluff with a high spade. Say he has QJ, Q of spades. In this case, any Q, J or spade wins it for him. Thats over 25% of the deck, so with two cards to come he is actually ahead!

Another realistic alternative is a very low flush, in this case your drawing dead.

This is the perfect example of a situation where your either a slight favourite, or a big dog. Easy fold.

Thats the beauty/beast of no limit holdem. You can play perfectly for hours, but one mistake and your out.

BrendanB

Yeah, I'll join the drop em consensus on this one. Even beyond everything else, the guy betting wasn't particularly experienced, and I don't think he was up to much bluffing for the night, at least for as long as he was on my table. And given the presence of a couple of short stacks, and some newish players probably safer from a winning money perspective to get out. The guy who beat you ended up taking home the prize in the end BTW (after 3am, and close on twelve hours poker for me).
Brendan.

Davey Devil

Jelly hit the nail, that's a pants hand to play UTG especially for 3,000 at the final table. That idiot betting all his stack, you better point this guy out to me sounds like the worst player ever, even worse than you DeV.:D

Sev

Well, Id be somewhat confident that he's not bluffing based on the size of the pot. It's just not sensible to put that many chips on the line, when all there is to win at the centre of the table is the big blind and two calls.. especially since you could be up against somebody who's slow-playing a high flush.

I'd put him on a low flush (he did get to see a cheap flop), and went all in because he didnt want anybody drawing with a higher spade to get the chance to see a free card.