Dublin are getting very easy draws

ciarann

happy days for the Dubs they are getting very handy draws in the football.Has Sean Kelly fixed it so that the hill 16 will be full of Dubs in september.When Dessie is in peak form and we get are revenge against Laois or Armagh

por

If you know the draw why did you not post it.........

Here it is for anyone who wants it

Cork v Fermanagh

Dublin v Longford

Derry v Offaly/Wexford

Galway v Tyrone

watman

Dublin have got easy enough draws so far but the question still remains have they solved the problems exposed by Westmeath in the Leinster Championsip . Beating poor teams is good for morale but it doesnt give a proper indication of how the team is fully operating , they still could collapse when the real pressure hits them against a better outfit

Big Ears

It mentioned this to my father , but id let it slip as just by chance for now , but if they get the weakest/an easy team in the next round I would be very suspicious .

Mighty_Mouse

No they're just lucky IMO> To be honest I dont think it really matters that they knock the leitrims or Longfords out of the Championship. They will not stand a real test IMO. Just dont have players capable enough. I'd be really confident if Roscommon drew them in the quaters.

ps
They made hard work of Leitrim from what I heard in the first half and i expect Longford to give them a game too

Waylander

Didn't Leitrim take Roscommon to a replay? That is making hard work of it!

Yavvy

I was at Carrick and no, Dublin didnt make hard work of letrim.. they made hard work of a bit of rain tbh. Even tho Dublin only led 5-3 at hald time it was clear they were always the strongest side. The Dubs made so many handeling errors ( as did letrim) I was begining to wonder if I this was the senior game .... Every dublin player was wearing gloves however the only players that seemed to be able to field was letrims number nine, Paddy christy and the Surperb Brian Cullen.


anywho class shon through in the second hald and apart from a disasterous penalty miss (again) it was a nice performance.

I also agree Letrim, Longford and London are nto real tests and wond answer any of Dublins big questions..But longford is a step up from letrim and a convincing win against them will raise moral for the next round which will be a big test im sure.

thirdmantackle

Well we got there in the end. when Leitrim play Ros it is their All-Ireland final, FA Cup final and World Cup final all rolled into one. So they go out and give everything.

Where as for the Ros it is a case of - 'sure they're only Leitrim'. We hate the favourites tag in Roscommon. If we are underdogs or unfancied then we rise to the occasion

Mighty_Mouse

I think I said in here before the Leitrim game that I expected Leitrim to give the Dubs a good run and I was a little dissapionted when I seen the headline. Roscommon made extremely hard work of Leitrim but I'm not touting Roscommon as possible All-Ireland contenders. After the Longford game the papers will start to build towards the Dubs big quater-final and probably start talking about all-Irelands again. I suppose the point I'm trying to make is that I would still have Dublin behind. Armagh, Laois, Tyrone, Donegal, Galway,Kerry. Do any of ye Dubs think different on the last two performances? Have the dubs improved? Are they up in confidence? How did Robertson and Farrell play?

Are Longford (beaten by Carlow) that much of a step up from Leitrim?

Waylander

Longford are a division 1 side so they are definitely a pretty big step up. No the performances against London and Leitrim do not make me, nor any of the other dub fans I know, think that all is rosey again. I do not even think the papers will make anything of the Dubs chances either. Having said all that, we can only beat the teams we are drawn against!

Trojan

May-yo

Mighty_Mouse

Eugene mcGee in todays indo:

Dublin played against a spirited but weak Leitrim team as Dublin have been playing for the past 18 months, without conviction and helped by a series of switches and substitutions that does not denote the sort of settled team that aspiring All-Ireland champions should have in the middle of July

Personally I think it was a good win for the Dubs having to travel all the way to Carrick and put in enough to win. I'm not sure how much a test Longford will provide.

yop

I was reading a piece there in the IOS paper that the GAA needs to the Dubs for the financial gain they bring with them playing in Croker and all that. It looks very sus the draw they have received so far but it will come to the stage where it will make no difference because they will come up against the bigger teams and be knocked out.
Leitrim looked very poor. The Galway v Tyrone match should be good.

por

Originally posted by yop
It looks very sus the draw they have received so far

I do not like the way they do the draw. Large metal cylinders in glass bowls. It would be very easy to have a tiny mark on the cylinder containing one team, distinguishing from the others.

Also I recall the draw for the 2003 championship in Oct 2002 where they had the same cylinder and bowl setup, the person making the draw did not even swirl the cylinders, he just plucked them out from the same position they were placed in the bowl.

They should get a good old bingo machine, give each county a number and see how they come out.

yop

I agree the draw could very well be fixed by marking the cylinders to suit any of the bigger teams. They are going to have the Galway/Tyrone game in Croke Park, shock horror, get a big crowd there!!
Maybe I am reading into this way too much but I just don't trust them

cruiserweight

Is it such a handy draw for Dublin if Longford win?

Yavvy

Positives from the letrim game

For once dublin had an awful start but a very strong finish..thats a better trend
Dessie farrell Showed that on the ball intellengce is something other dublin players need to learn and that he still has a big part to play in this dublin team.
Brian Cullen is in top form
Ian Robertson is still very rusty but was effective when pulled out in to the middle as opposed to the forward line.
Jayson Sherlock is still going well, to my mind he hasnt had a bag game yet. If he gets the service we will get the scores..ditto with Brogan.
Paddy Christy is still the man

Negitaves

the Dublin midfield is still very very shakey and Im still waiting to see a comanding performance from Whelan.
Sennan didnt have a superb game ( for once)
Cluxton ( I didnt see the incident fully) was lucky not to get sent off after trying to smack some leitrim lad who fouled him.
Dublin were very very poor in the first half and did what they needed to do in the second

Over all

Havent learned much from London and Leitrim but its given the Dubs time to mentally prepare for stiffer oppisition and also get the lads some much needed championship practice. Longford will be a real test and every game after that will be very very tough ( assuming there are games after longford)

Shaque attack

imo the dubs are going nowhere this year. their performances have been the same as last year and they still possess crucial flaws. imo the gaa have protected them by giving them easy draws for the qualifiers so they can be hyped up and get a big turnout in croke park for the next round of the series

Yavvy

I think its typical of people to scream fix just cause dublin get 2 easy fixtures...

What ever about Dublins progress ad ability, im as sceptial as anyone about that. I dont think the gaa are arranging anything. and even if there were, what does it matter, sooner or later they have to meet the big boys....

Big Ears

Originally posted by cruiserweight
Is it such a handy draw for Dublin if Longford win?

no but it wouldnt have been a handy draw for Dublin if London had won either ,

The Rooster

If it involves Dublin, then it has to be a fix :rolleyes:

Nobody was shouting fix last year when Armagh drew Waterford, Antrim, Limerick and Laois. Arguable the easiest draw possible at each stage - particulalry the first two.

If they were going to fix the draw they would have had Dublin against Meath in the last round. Two counties waiting to get beaten, but who nonetheless have a massive support and would sell out Croke Park.

The Tyrone-Galway and Cork-Fermanagh double bill will certainly not reach 40,000 - and I doubt they'll even get 30,000. Tyrone v Down only had 11,000 last week and that was a local derby played in Ulster. Cork will bring no fans and Galway and Fermanagh will bring few enough.

Longford gave Dublin a run for their money in Parnell Park in the league, a venue where Dublin are generally very hard to beat. So I dont think it'll be a foregone conclusion, especially in a neutral venue.

cruiserweight

Originally posted by The Rooster

Nobody was shouting fix last year when Armagh drew Waterford, Antrim, Limerick and Laois. Arguable the easiest draw possible at each stage - particulalry the first two.

You forgot to include Dublin in your easy route for Armagh

I do not think that it is a fix, there are other games and teams that could sell out Croke Park(if that is what the conspiracy theory is based on)! Longford is not that easy a draw, it is a potential banana skin!

redspider

No, the Dublin fixtures are not fixed. The qualifier draws are completely above board and are throwing up all types of interesting match-ups, many of which do not favour GAA HQ in terms of revenue.

You just take your luck. The back-door system is however one way for the Dub followers to get to see some of the country and see the grounds were other teams have to play at and takes them away from the luxury of playing in Croker the whole time. That is good experience for the players as well.

I expect Dublin will fail though when they meet their first or second tough team and I would be very surprised if they won SAM this year. The bainisteoir has to go imo.

thirdmantackle

Thats all very well seeing the country - but they have never had to go to a decent teams home ground and play them on their home turf. Someone like Roscommon, Offaly, Limerick or Cavan would sort them out

The Rooster

Sure Ros couldnt even sort out Leitrim at the first time of asking
(of course Ros followers maintain that Leitrim transform themselves from a rubbish team to worldbeaters when they come up against the sheepstealers.:D )


Dublin went to Clones last year and hammered Derry. May not be Derry's home ground, but its where they play most of their championship games.

Dublin probably play worse in Croke Park than in any other ground

Imposter

Originally posted by The Rooster
Dublin probably play worse in Croke Park than in any other ground

Well then get them back there and get the inevitable over with:D

redspider

Its true that in recent years Dublin have played worse at Croker, and the "away" teams have risen to the occasion, such as Laois last year and Westmeath this year. There were times in both of those matches however that Dublin seemed unstoppable so in general they are playing hot and cold. I cant put my finger on their general malaise, but it is typical in football for teams to play well in spells and then to play poorly. Also, with the recent demise in Meath football, Dublin are not getting the challenge that they used to that would raise their game. Its coming from the "new" counties and Leinster is really wide open ever since Kildare started knocking on the door a few years ago (although this year they are no-where to be seen).

Westmeath to me are not a surprise, but Wexford certainly were. It should be a good final.

Dublin will have another day in Croke Park.

As for Rosscommon and Leitrim, neither are contenders but obviously Roscommon are better and could test some teams but they wont be able to make the semi.

Imposter

Originally posted by redspider
Its true that in recent years Dublin have played worse at Croker, and the "away" teams have risen to the occasion, such as Laois last year and Westmeath this year. There were times in both of those matches however that Dublin seemed unstoppable so in general they are playing hot and cold. I cant put my finger on their general malaise, but it is typical in football for teams to play well in spells and then to play poorly. Also, with the recent demise in Meath football, Dublin are not getting the challenge that they used to that would raise their game. Its coming from the "new" counties and Leinster is really wide open ever since Kildare started knocking on the door a few years ago (although this year they are no-where to be seen).

The problem with your idea there is that Westmeath, Laois, Kildare and others actually play quite often in Croker. Dublin usually have more games than these in Croker but I don't think Croker is really an advantage to Dublin other than them getting more fans there than they would elsewhere.

I don't get what you mean about Dublin getting 'a challenge' from counties other than Meath but I would have thought if they ended up losing a match then it was a challenge, a challenge they weren't up to.

cruiserweight

Originally posted by redspider
Its true that in recent years Dublin have played worse at Croker, and the "away" teams have risen to the occasion, such as Laois last year and Westmeath this year.
Dublin will have another day in Croke Park.

That is quite condescending to say that these teams rose to the occasion. If Laois and Dublin were to play later this year I would be in no doubt that Dublin would lose. THe Westmeath game would be close, however Dublin would probably win.

Dublin were once a force to be reckoned with, but that is no longer the case. At times in recent years they have flattered to deceive, for example when they rose to the occasion against Kerry down in Thurles or when they rose to the occasion by getting to an all-ireland semi-final!

It is not just Dublin, Meath have also suffered a similar change in fortunes. At the same time teams like Laois and Westmeath (through underage success) and Wexford and Kildare have improved. To the extent that Laois can now be considered the best team in Leinster and are the Leinster team with the best chance of winning sam. I would not be surprised to see them in Croker on the third Sunday in September.

redspider

I agree that other counties now play in Croke Park more than Dublin and are quite comfortable there. But this was not the case say 5-10 yrs ago when the likes of a Westmeath would have crumbled when playing at Croker. You may remember that Croke Park was not used for as many neutral matches as it is now (the residents association know very well). He Croke Park disadvantage for Dublin has waned especially in the last couple of years since the new stands have gone up and the Hill has been in mortar! Maybe that is a factor.


> I don't get what you mean about Dublin [edit: not] getting 'a challenge' from counties other than Meath

Basically if no-one from Leinster is challenging for the All-Ireland, say like Meath used to do, Dublin’s performances and quality of players are likely to suffer. The better the teams in Leinster, the better Dublin will be, as has been proven in Ulster in recent years. At the moment, the likes of Westmeath are beating Dublin, and although Westmeath and Laois have vastly improved, I don’t think they are Sam challengers.


> That is quite condescending to say that these teams rose to the occasion.

I guess it sounds worse than I mean, which is that they were not daunted to play at Croker and played well on the occasion. It wasn’t a case of them playing badly and Dublin playing worse. I do think that Dublin can still give Laois a run for their money on any ground.

> Dublin were once a force to be reckoned with, but that is no longer the case.

Agreed. I think a manager change is needed.

> Laois can now be considered the best team in Leinster and are the Leinster team with the best chance of winning sam. I would not be surprised to see them in Croker on the third Sunday in September.

Yes, they probably are the best team, but Leinster is close, its not as if Laois are dominating proceedings and I think they will be doing very well to get to the final. I don’t expect it and I don’t think Paddy Power does either.

cruiserweight

Originally posted by redspider
I agree that other counties now play in Croke Park more than Dublin and are quite comfortable there. But this was not the case say 5-10 yrs ago when the likes of a Westmeath would have crumbled when playing at Croker. You may remember that Croke Park was not used for as many neutral matches as it is now (the residents association know very well). He Croke Park disadvantage for Dublin has waned especially in the last couple of years since the new stands have gone up and the Hill has been in mortar! Maybe that is a factor.


> I don't get what you mean about Dublin [edit: not] getting 'a challenge' from counties other than Meath

Basically if no-one from Leinster is challenging for the All-Ireland, say like Meath used to do, Dublin’s performances and quality of players are likely to suffer. The better the teams in Leinster, the better Dublin will be, as has been proven in Ulster in recent years. At the moment, the likes of Westmeath are beating Dublin, and although Westmeath and Laois have vastly improved, I don’t think they are Sam challengers.


> That is quite condescending to say that these teams rose to the occasion.

I guess it sounds worse than I mean, which is that they were not daunted to play at Croker and played well on the occasion. It wasn’t a case of them playing badly and Dublin playing worse. I do think that Dublin can still give Laois a run for their money on any ground.

> Dublin were once a force to be reckoned with, but that is no longer the case.

Agreed. I think a manager change is needed.

> Laois can now be considered the best team in Leinster and are the Leinster team with the best chance of winning sam. I would not be surprised to see them in Croker on the third Sunday in September.

Yes, they probably are the best team, but Leinster is close, its not as if Laois are dominating proceedings and I think they will be doing very well to get to the final. I don’t expect it and I don’t think Paddy Power does either.

I agree that Dublin would run Laois close, but I think that Laois have the edge and are a superior team at the moment!

As I stated earlier I would not be surprised to see them (Laois) in the final, depending on the draw I can see a Kerry vs Laois final. In fact paddy power have installed Laois as third favourites behind Armagh and Kerry. However I suspect that come Monday morning Laois will be second favourites after Armagh lose to Donegal!

Imposter

Originally posted by cruiserweight
I agree that Dublin would run Laois close, but I think that Laois have the edge and are a superior team at the moment!

As I stated earlier I would not be surprised to see them (Laois) in the final, depending on the draw I can see a Kerry vs Laois final. In fact paddy power have installed Laois as third favourites behind Armagh and Kerry. However I suspect that come Monday morning Laois will be second favourites after Armagh lose to Donegal!

I think Leinster winners Vs Munster winners in semis. But you're probably right in saying Laois V Kerry is possible because Westmeath will win Leinster (I know my tune is changing now but i'm getting a regular dose of patriotism of late).

I also think Donegal will win but what do I know!

Waylander

I'd be surprised to see them in the All Ireland final, but sure you never can tell, with Micko at the helm I would not be prepared to bet against it. I do not htink there is much between Dublin and Laois, although I would say Laois are a better team. Their midfield is excelllent, while Ciaran Whelan rarely delivers what he is capable of.

redspider

I only checked Paddy Power after I posted and was surprised to see Laois at such short odds for Sam, third favourites at 13-2 and also how much favourites Kerry are at 9/4. Surely that cant be right ?!?

I'm not sure if Paddy Power are watching the same games as we are. Surely GAA is less predictable than the odds suggested / betting patterns:

Kerry 9 - 4
Armagh 9 - 2
Laois 13 - 2
Donegal 7 - 1
Tyrone 9 - 1
Galway 12 - 1
Mayo 12 - 1
Dublin 14 - 1
Cork 16 - 1
Limerick 20 - 1
Westmeath 25 - 1
Roscommon 28 - 1
Derry 40 - 1
Offaly 50 - 1
Wexford 150 - 1
Fermanagh 150 - 1
Longford 250 - 1


For example, when Armagh play Donegal this weekend, the game could go either way. Armagh should win it on paper and have a better team but not even an Armagh player would bet the house on it.

There are others in that list which just dont add up. Surely Fermanagh are better than Derry and are Offaly twice as bad as Westmeath?

I still cant see Laois winning Sam. They have had an easy draw so far, with matches against Carlow and Meath, not exactly stalwarts in the current game. It will be interesting to see how they fair in the quarters and against some of the Ulster teams, thats if they can get past Westmeath (it aint over yet!). Paudi has a point to prove!

cruiserweight

The odds will change after the weekend. They are a reflection of the draw and what has happened so far! One example of this that you pointed out is that Westmeath have shorter odds than Offaly, to win Sam Westmeath will have to win 4 more games, Offaly will have to win 6! I am not surprised by the short odds for Laois, after they beat Westmeath they are only 2 games away from the final!

For example at the start of the hurling championship, I remember seeing Wexford at something like 20-1(or more) at one stage, now they are third favourites! The same for Waterford!

redspider

> The odds will change after the weekend.

I think you'll see them changing quite a bit in the next couple of months. I dont think they reflect reality at the moment, in terms of the actual chances a county has of winning Sam. They obviously reflect PP's betting book, so clearly there's a lot of money going on for Laois, and seemingly Kerry.

Before the championship I had Armagh, Kerry and Galway as my three picks for winning Sam. Galway dont look like they will do it, Armagh do, but there is no way I would have Kerry as such hot favourites so early. I think they have a chance of winning Sam.

> Westmeath will have to win 4 more games
> Laois, after they beat Westmeath they are only 2 games away from the final!

It will take Laois 4 games to win Sam, the same as Westmeath.

Laois have to get past Westmeath who are on a high and have had a much tougher draw. I think it will be a close game and I still think Laois's odds are too short. I dont think Laois will win Sam as they will become a cropper when they have to play some of the tougher counties.


> For example at the start of the hurling championship, I remember seeing Wexford at something like 20-1(or more) at one stage, now they are third favourites! The same for Waterford!

Yup, the odds by the bookies seem to be way out and reflect better's choices rather than footballing expectations. I guess thats why so many people betting a go.

I think Waterford have the best team, but hurling is just as difficult to call and Waterford could stumble before they get their hands on the McCarthy cup.

I must make a note to keep an eye on the betting list as the championship progresses.

Imposter

The odds are always calculated so that the bookie comes out with a profit in the end.

The money that has been placed to date often plays a biger part in those odds than perhaps it should. Look at Dublin being a shorter price than Westmeath for example. Chances are a lot of Dubliners have money on Dublin. Realistically they have to play an extra match than Westmeath before they can win Sam and the fact that Westmeath have already beaten them, even though a reversal is more than possible should they meet again, should mean that Westmeath are shorter odds.

For me the only possible value in those bets would be on Donegal.

The Rooster

At the start of the championship the bookies saw it as a 4 horse race between Galway, Kerry, Tyrone and Armagh. Since then Galway and Tyrone have been beaten (and played badly) and Armagh were poor enough against Cavan and lucky to win. Meanwhile Kerry accounted for Cork comfortably. So I think its easy to see why they are now clear favourites - though I wouldnt rule them out of playing badly against Limerick this weekend.

I reckon Dublin would have beaten Laois if we'd played them again last year. I thought Laois would dip a bit this year and come back even stronger next year, but it looks like I was wrong. They seemed to have matured nicely and I would make them favourites to beat Dublin in any game this year, and make them Leinster's best chance of winning Sam.

redspider

I agree that the bookies odds are set to make them profits, although they can lose at times and they use lay-off bets to mitigate losses.

It seems to me though that the PP GAA "book" is out of line with realistic expectations. ok, lets surmise that PP are just reflecting the betting public, so in essence its the punters on the street, those that bet, who are saying that Kerry have twice as much a chance of winning Sam than Armagh! That is ridiculous imo.

Even though I can see Kerry in the final 4, I cant see them being such hot favourites. Yes, they did beat Cork but Cork are a shadow of their past. I am expecting a surging Limerick to give Kerry a good game and I wouldn't be surprised if Limerick won or Kerry just win barely. It is by no means a done deal and it will be close.

And as we get to the final stages, Kerry who I admit are a better outfit this year, will find some tough challenges.

xern

04-MO-SAM

Waylander

It is always a good idea to introduce a bit of humour to a thread xern, good man!

gerire

Its all relative anyway, Dublin are going to get the loosers of the Ulster final, for another bumper day in croker for the GAA, and will more than likely get shcooled because they havnt had a real match yet this year.

Ath Cliath Abú

Imposter

Originally posted by gerire
...and will more than likely get shcooled because they havnt had a real match yet this year.

More of that humour Xern started with. In case you've forgotten, they are playing in the loser's competition. That means they already lost, so yes they have had a real match but they just weren't good enough.

It's about time someone put them completely out of their misery so that we can get on with dicussing who will really win Sam

The Rooster

Yeah, maybe Westmeath

Imposter

Originally posted by The Rooster
Yeah, maybe Westmeath

I doubt it but winning Leinster is very possible.

Shaque attack

Originally posted by Imposter
I doubt it but winning Leinster is very possible.

actually its my belief that its not. people dont seem to realise just how good this laois team is and at the moment i cant see any team, with the exception of armagh, that is much better than laois.

Originally posted by redspider I dont think Laois will win Sam as they will become a cropper when they have to play some of the tougher counties.

with the exception of armagh can you name some of the tougher counties that have the ptential to knock Laois out?

Waylander

Kerry, Galway, Mayo, Tyrone, Donegal, Dublin and Wexford. Any of these teams have it within their abilities to knock out Laois. I would fancy Kerry, Galway, Tyrone and Armagh against them. Shaque that is pure crazy talk!

cruiserweight

The fact of the matter is nobody will know how good Laois are until they play in the quarter finals. They should brush aside Westmeath, and then we will see what they are made of, until that happens nobody knows what level they are at!

Personally I believe that they are one of the main contenders, I would rate them ahead of Galway and Tyrone at the moment, but only at the moment! Both Galway and Tyrone have a lot of players missing through injury!

Imposter

Right big collective reply here,

Waylander,
I would rate Kerry and Armagh higher than Laois. Of the other teams you mentioned most would be about equal but I reckon Dublin and possibly Wexford would be weaker but still could beat them.

And to them other 2 jokers (Shaque and Cruiser),
Ye seem to forget that Laois are strong because of the strong underage teams they had in the mid to late 90's. Well Westmeath also won a minor all-ireland then beating laois in the Leinster final after (I think) a second replay. Now I don't mean to suggest that Westmeath should be favourites on Sunday, I don't think that. But I do think that Shaque's comment about not knowing how good Laois are until they play in the quarters is rubbish. If Dublin were playing Laois you wouldn't have said that. Just because WM beat Dublin and Wexford beat Kildare doesn't mean that it's easy all of a sudden for Laois. Wexford and Westmeath won because they were better on the given days than their opposition. That is all any team can do.

Wrt the WM V Laois match on Sunday WM won't be afraid of Laois like they would the other more traditional big boys in Leinster. After beating Dublin they've shown that that's in the past, I hope. They are also gaining confidence with every game. They will respect Laois like they did Offaly, Dublin and Wexford but fear them they won't.

For me all this confidence that the Westmeath team has in themselves is in stark contrast to the teams of a few years ago that would bottle it in games they should have won. I reckon it'll be very tight on sunday and either team could win. Laois by virtue of their experience are and should be favourites but Westmeath are far from a team that can be brushed aside. This is the Leinster final after all. You need to win at least 2 matches to be there.

cruiserweight

Originally posted by Imposter


And to them other 2 jokers (Shaque and Cruiser),
Ye seem to forget that Laois are strong because of the strong underage teams they had in the mid to late 90's. Well Westmeath also won a minor all-ireland then beating laois in the Leinster final after (I think) a second replay. Now I don't mean to suggest that Westmeath should be favourites on Sunday, I don't think that. But I do think that Shaque's comment about not knowing how good Laois are until they play in the quarters is rubbish. If Dublin were playing Laois you wouldn't have said that. Just because WM beat Dublin and Wexford beat Kildare doesn't mean that it's easy all of a sudden for Laois. Wexford and Westmeath won because they were better on the given days than their opposition. That is all any team can do.

If Laois had beaten Dublin I would be saying the same thing. I believe that Laois are the best team in Leinster at the moment. However I think that the landscape in Leinster is changing greatly. Westmeath and Laois are building on underage success and Wexford are also coming on as well. I think that neither Meath or Wicklow provided a test for Laois. Had they came out of the same side of the draw as Westmeath, which also contained Wexford and Offaly they would have had a bigger test.

The reason I said quarter final is because Laois will have to put two big games together back to back, it is okay to do it one day, but then we will see consistancy and we may have all-ireland champion material.

For the record from what I have seen this year the best teams in Leinster are

1. Laois
2. Wexford
=Westmeath
3.Offaly
=Dublin

However I expect that to change, by September we will see
1. Laois
2. Wexford
3. Dublin
4.Westmeath
5.Offaly

But I am a little biased(for wexford)

Waylander

More then a little I'd say. Imposter I agree with what you say, I said those teams all had it in them to beat Laois, not that they were all better teams then Laois. I also agree they are probably the best team in Leinster, I just do not think that that is much of an achievement at teh moment.