SF rise threatens US investment:Sunday Independent

ecksor

Originally posted by mike65
The diff is that Haughey was tried and aquitted no so legal "stain". Adams could sue but has'nt.

I read but I don't understand ...

mike65

Haughey cannot be accused of selling arms (without risk of being sued) cos he did'nt as far as the law is concerned. Adams has been accused of IRA membership in print and verbally which if not true is actionable but he has'nt sued (proberly wisely looking from his point of view).

Mike.

ecksor

Probably (in my limited knowledge and opinion), but the logic still seems suspect. I'm don't believe that Mr. Adams is an IRA member as far as the courts are concerned either since they haven't ruled on it. Even if he wasn't a member at any point, he probably wouldn't sue based upon that charge for political reasons, so the logic of "didn't sue therefore its true" seems tenuous ...

Victor

Originally posted by mike65
Haughey cannot be accused of selling arms

Nobody is accusing him of selling arms, he and other have been accussed of buying (not proven in court) and giving arms.

mike65

Originally posted by Victor
Nobody is accusing him of selling arms, he and other have been accussed of buying (not proven in court) and giving arms.

Typedef is, to wit-

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?postid=1749409#post1749409

"Sure, Sinn Fein have a connection to the IRA, then again, Charles Haughey sold arms to the IRA, so I find the notion of FF castigating SF, for paramilitary activity absurd."

Mike.

Victor

The hoor. Selling guns he didn't even buy!

Cork

SF rise will not help FDI. I think that having a political party with links to an illegal army will be used by competitors of the IDA.

SF has yet to state where they stand on capital gains tax. Some Shinners have stated they want it raised while others don't seem to know.

But overall - I am sure that competitors of the IDA will be highlighting the electoral support of SF.

Willie O Dea deserves credit bringing this up for debate.

Typedef

Martin Cullen should have resigned in disgrace for the *farce* which was perpitrated at his behest vis-a-vis eVoting.

Moreover the privitisation of State industry, which 'I' don't particularly oppose but, apparently quite a few of my fellow citizens *do* oppose is a pro-PD measure, which is bringing a government with low approval ratings, even lower.

Cork, I hope you're ready for Fianna Fail to be unseated for a few years, because considering the amount of ground it is loosing through it's pretty unpopular right wing policies, pro-PD policies, it looks quite likely the opposition will just have to sit back and let Fianna Fail dig themselves even deeper into it.

Also Mike, my assertion is that Charles Haughey most likely *was* involved in running guns in some form to the IRA. Since Bertie Ahern is Charles Haughey's named sucessor, I doubt, Bertie can possibly oppose such a stance vis-a-vis the North.

It's not a stance I agree with. Sure, I'm a nationalist, but, then again, I'd never vote for any party which didn't subscribe to the principal of consent. In fact, I voted for the Good Friday agreement, with the realisation that it would probably put the brakes onto a glorious Green Republic, when the Nationalist demographic outnumbers the Unionist demographic up North.

Gerry Adams may or may not be able to order asassinations, I doubt *he* does, can, will or ever has, since he's much too slick a figurehead. Adams, is SF's equivalent of the Berite factor, except in opposition parties like SF and Labour don't have to make those tough governmental decisions and thus can remain popular.

Nationalist politics sells. It sells in America, in the UK, in Ireland, in Russia. Maybe it doens't sell so well in Germany, maybe some Germans still can't get past the war. Eventually, nationalist politics will sell there too. I'm under no illusion that leaders like Bertie, Gerry, George and Tony *don't* get shot for their nations, but, in a very real sense Sinn Fein has endeered itself to the voters in the South over the last five years or so.

For right or for wrong the Irish sided with Sinn Fein to a big extent when Trimble was being repeatedly stabbed in the back by Geff Donaldson, more so since the SDLP was *backing* SF's position, during wich time SF has in oppositon opposed things like the Nice Treaty, when *Republican* parites like Fianna Fail force fed it to the public. I didn't agree with the citizenship referendum either, nor software patents. The only parties to oppose all three were Labour, Sinn Fein and the Greens.

Labour come off a little too pro-Europe for me. I'm not a European Federalist, I'm an Irish nationalist, a damn hard working one too, it's 12pm on a Friday night and ... I'm still in work. Point being that while nobody is getting shot, while the peace process moves forward and while Sinn Fein keep hitting the anti-government demographic, Sinn Fein *will* continue to rise in popularity.

I disagree with releasing the murderers of Garda Gerry McCabe, that sort of thing turns me off the Shinners, but, when it comes down to making votes count, for social policies I'd like to see implemented and I'm not talking about Republicanism in any way here, I'm talking about things like ridding the Inner City of heroin dealers (something Sinn Fein was very ... publicly associated with a few years back), a lack of support of Irish participation in European Federalism, the pro-equality stance taken by all parites, but only really practiced by Labour, Sinn Fein and the Greens (in that order) when it comes to things like immigration, SF, Labour and the Greens *will* continue to make inroads into Fianna Fial votes.

Ireland is not poor anymore, in ten years time the right wing *will* have moved much closer to the center... you never know, Deputy Rabbite might even do a Tony Blair on the Communi... I mean the Labour party in Ireland.

Cork

Originally posted by Typedef


Cork, I hope you're ready for Fianna Fail to be unseated for a few years, because considering the amount of ground it is loosing through it's pretty unpopular right wing policies, pro-PD policies, it looks quite likely the opposition will just have to sit back and let Fianna Fail dig themselves even deeper into it.

If it is the policy of lowering personal taxation rates or the policy of managing an ecomomy that has never witnessed such periods of high employment and free from involentary emigration.

Maybe we will see then the left wing influence that is pushing to increase Capital gains tax which will make house prices higher. It will discourage investors to sell.

Maybe we again wait to see - what influence the Green Party will have on policy?

What Green Tax will they impose on petrol & home heating oil?

4, 44, or 444% - Who knows?

What exactly is the alternative governments policy on Green taxes or CGT?

Sadly, It has not one.

Typedef

Cork here is a piece of news which will probably come as a shock to you.

Fianna Fail is not responsible for the growth of the Irish economy.

Shall I tell you who is?

A) The hard working Irish people.

The career Civil Servants who acutally decided macro economic policy over 'decades'.

Individual Ministers for Finance or Trade and Employment don't really have that great a say over Ireland's long term economic policies, because, quite frankly, governing economic policy is beyond politicians, steering long term economic policy is the remit of career economists and it takes decades of experience to be qualified to make long term macro economic decisions for an economy as a whole.

That's why guys like Alan Greenspan exist, because Joe Fed Politician (x) simply doesn't have the appropiate qualifications nor experience to adequately decide on *how* to run an economy.

I'm wondering Cork though... if you can for once, not embarress yourself and stop with the party political broadcasts and simply define for me, how it is a politician, who may or may not be an economist, would make a *better* decision about steering an economy, then say, a professional economist, with a degree and 20-30 years experience of economics?

Perhaps you'd feel good about letting the Minister for Health perform an operation on you, as opposed to a qualified Doctor?

The mindless assertion you've just made that, politicains, rather then economists, make the critical decisions about Irish long term Macro economics, is pretty much the same as saying that the Minister for Health, performs life saving operations on a daily basis.

Sorry, wrong answer, it's the qualified and experienced Doctors who do that, and it's the qualified and experienced Economists who run the Irish economy.

Care to comment and not just spew out the usual diatribe of embarressing and diminishing pro-Fianna Fial propaganda?

Victor

FF rise will not help FDI. I think that having a political party with links to corrupt politicians will be used by competitors of the IDA.

FF has yet to state where they stand on capital gains tax. Some FFers have stated they want it raised while others don't seem to know.

Raskolnikov

Originally posted by ishmael whale
Rashkolnikov’s post still needs a tweak in the other direction (and I don’t mean the puzzling statement that we produced a large amount of graduates as a result of the abolition of tuition fees).

So you're saying that because of the free fees initiative that we didn't produce more college graduates and that by having a more highly trained workforce we weren't going to attract foreign investment?

Originally posted by Meh
They may be accurate, but they're misleading. Dell, Pfizer and the rest of them did not pay 32% corporation tax in 1998.

Incidently, the two multinationals you selected were already established in Ireland before the Celtic Tiger. Pfizer have been here in a big way since the 80's (I live not so far from the main plant) and Dell since the early 90's.

Getting back to the topic of discussion, the whole article is completely absurd because it's making claims based completely on conjecture.

Mr O'Dea said that the rise of Sinn Fein was putting at risk the 120,000 jobs directly dependant on US investment and the many more jobs downstream.

Five Sinn Féin TD's and a smattering of councillors are going to without a hope of ever going into government with a majority will have the yanks uping and leaving?

The Minister said that he had recently spoken to representatives of important American investors including solicitors, accountants and financial experts.

In the last 10 days alone he had received three approaches on the matter.

Ohh, all so cloak and dagger with these secret meetings, I'm sure it's only to protect the aforementioned from getting kneecapped and not because they don't actually exist.

"These people relayed to me growing concern at the fragmentation of the Irish political system, giving rise to the emergence of the hard Left in the form of Marxist-terrorist Sinn Fein.

Yes, yes! Let's save those precious jobs and prevent further fragmentation of Irish politics. Now how do I vote so I can prevent this further defragmentation while saving Irish jobs . . .

Although Sinn Fein's social and economic policies are unspecific, the party has admitted that if it had a role in Government, it would undertake what it describes as a "major review" of the country's taxation system.

Here's the real humdinger, Sinn Féin themselves don't even know where their economic policy is going but yet O' Dea assures that it'll lead to job losses. Know something we don't Willie?

"If US and Canadian investors, for example, were scared off by the rise of Sinn Fein and these policies," Mr O'Dea said, "the Mid-West region which I represent could turn into an industrial cemetery."

Blah de blah, vote for me. This has been a party political broadcast on behalf of some twit, gratis.

While a spokesman for Tanaiste Mary Harney, the Enterprise and Employment Minister, said the concerns expressed to Mr O'Dea had not been made directly to her Department

Obviously Willie is a higher up authority than Mary

Ireland needs its competitive edge now that it is faced with greater competition from the new EU countries of eastern Europe, and from countries like Puerto Rico, Singapore, Switzerland and also China.

I think it was Victor who made a good point about China being even further to the left than Sinn Féin, maybe the yanks will do business with the Reds if the price is right

Shifting focus once again to the core issue of wether Sinn Féin in power would result in job losses? It's impossible to say given the lack of any definite information in the SF manifesto. I'd be inclined to think that a SF government over a FF one would lead to some job losses, but at a scale to merit such a ridiculous and sensationalist article? Absolutely not.

Cork

Originally posted by Raskolnikov


Shifting focus once again to the core issue of wether Sinn Féin in power would result in job losses? It's impossible to say given the lack of any definite information in the SF manifesto. I'd be inclined to think that a SF government over a FF one would lead to some job losses, but at a scale to merit such a ridiculous and sensationalist article? Absolutely not.

This country relies on US FDI.

Would a party that has an illegal army be a positive in attracting US FDI?

Of course it would not. This would be explioted by competitors of the IDA.

US FDI is hard won. You think US FDI just comes knocking on the door?

It does not. With high unemployment accross the EU - US FDI is vital to this country.