George Hamilton quoting Maggie Thatcher

10000maniacs

When the supporter ran on to the pitch during the Euro 2004 final,
George Hamilton, wearing his Orange Order hat, said
"He should not be given the oxygen of Publicity" and acknowledged
Maggie Thatcher for the original quote.
The only thing is, Thatcher spluttered those jeering words as Bobby Sands was gasping his last breaths on hunger strike in 1981.
I am not a political animal but I thaught that Bobby Sands although misguided was
a brave young man at the time. And Thatcher was a Heartless cold bitch which was proved in her later years.
So an I the only one who found Hamiltons flippant remarks offensive?

article6

Originally posted by Maggie Thatcher
"He should not be given the oxygen of Publicity"

Well, whether or not it was offensive in Bobby Sands's context (and this is not the place to discuss the Troubles), it was certainly appropriate in the case of the soccer streaker. Probably an improvement on its original setting, in fact. It didn't offend me at all.

Mossy Monk

Originally posted by 10000maniacs
So an I the only one who found Hamiltons flippant remarks offensive?

it doesnt bother me

mike65

:ninja: !

Mike.

DMC

Originally posted by 10000maniacs
So an I the only one who found Hamiltons flippant remarks offensive?

Me neither.

BuffyBot

It's a quote which has passed into use now in other situations. I wouldn't find it particularily offensive.

sceptre

Originally posted by 10000maniacs
The only thing is, Thatcher spluttered those jeering words as Bobby Sands was gasping his last breaths on hunger strike in 1981.

As far as I know the phrase originates from a speech she made to the American Bar Association on July 15 1985. It was reported in the Times on July 16. And at the time it was to do with the notion of banning proscribed organisations (including the IRA) from the airwaves and had nothing to do with Bobby Sands. Given that "We must try to find ways to starve the terrorist and the hijacker of the oxygen of publicity on which they depend" is one of her more famous quotes, archivists might like to see an example of it being used by her four years earlier. As far as I know it wasn't.

10000maniacs

I distinctly remember her giving a BBC tv news interview containing that very quote a few days before Mr. Sands died.
I didnt have a video recorder at the time, so I cannot confirm.
This document is the closest I can get to confirmation, although obviously its not concrete confirmation.
http://www.may.ie/staff/dpringle/igu/anderson.pdf

In_Diana_Jones

Originally posted by 10000maniacs
When the supporter ran on to the pitch during the Euro 2004 final,
George Hamilton, wearing his Orange Order hat, said
"He should not be given the oxygen of Publicity" and acknowledged
Maggie Thatcher for the original quote.
The only thing is, Thatcher spluttered those jeering words as Bobby Sands was gasping his last breaths on hunger strike in 1981.
I am not a political animal but I thaught that Bobby Sands although misguided was
a brave young man at the time. And Thatcher was a Heartless cold bitch which was proved in her later years.
So an I the only one who found Hamiltons flippant remarks offensive?

Very badly researched and obviously another Sinn Fein-er just looking for an excuse to sla the British.

Peter C

SF/IRA supporters will always find something to whinge about and slate the British.

Picking on George Hamilton just shows them up for what they are!

ReefBreak

I didn't find it offensive.

People who think remembering the hunger strikers is more important than the memory of the hundreds of innocent civilians murdered by Republican & Loyalist paramilitaries - now that I find offensive.

Peter C

Well said ReefBreak!

por

I don't find it offensive, it's his 'danger here' statements that I find offensive, you know something bad is going to happen when you hear that.

As for his 'Orange Order hat', this sort of statement is typical of some people in this country. I, and many others I expect, have looked on GH as nothing other than a sport commentator and an enjoyable one to listen to at that (e.g. quote ‘the Spanish manager is pulling off his captain’). Where he comes from and what his personal beliefs are have nothing to do with it.

mike65

Did this thread get moved? :ninja:

Mike.

10000maniacs

Now if Hamilton said something like " Greece only have to be lucky once" in the final, and then thanked the IRA for the quote, I think there would have been a different reaction.
I am so not a supporter of the IRA, just anti Maggie Thatcher (She has a lot of blood on her hands too- remember the General Belgrano battleship in retreat). And I dont think George Hamilton should be using such a person as a source of quotation on Irish television, even if it is in the context of a football game. Just my opinion.

Phil_321

I wouldn't find his comment offensive.

Mighty_Mouse

Did he not say he wasn't a political animal? Which I would assume to mean he has no strong political affiliations. Oh, the irony.... the irony, of the usual high-horse, anti-republican, drama-queen, Sinn Fein-repulsed brigade out in force to once again accuse republicans of been over-reactive.

Sand

I didnt hear it, but I wouldnt be offended if I had. Build a bridge, and get over it. The actions of Bobby Sands and all his buddies are far more offensive.

mike65

Originally posted by 10000maniacs
[Bjust anti Maggie Thatcher (She has a lot of blood on her hands too- remember the General Belgrano battleship in retreat) [/B]

You should have been watching a programme on Channel 4 last Monday which er blew out of the water the idea the Belgrano was "in retreat".


Mike.

redspider

I'd like to add a few comments here.

I have had to at times turn down the sound when watching a football game with George Hamilton commentating. His comments irk me most times - George has even been found guilty of praising the opposing team in an Ireland game. He seems to take partisanship a bit too far imo.

His anti-Republican-ness is quite well known within media circles and I would not be alone in this line of thinking from the general public. My low opinion of Hamilton was confirmed when I met him once in a bar and he was a complete arrogant so-and-so. He seems to be a northener that doesn't like living in Dublin and complains easily and constantly. Ireland is one of his pet complaints.

However from my discussions with other people working at RTE and other people in the RTE sports dept, Hamilton is more stupid and a buffoon than anything else. He puts his foot in it basically and far too often jibes the Irish in all manners of ways. He is able to keep a low-paid job at RTE.

I dont know why he got the work at RTE in the first place nor why he has been kept on for so many years. I am not surprised by his comments, although I dont think he had Bobby Sands in mind when he made the remarks. However, how a commentator would have such a comment ready at hand is the problem with Hamilton. He didnt even realise that saying something like this could be inapporpriate.

I would suggest to the original poster to write into RTE, but no doubt RTE will file it with the 1000's of others that they have got down through the years and just bin it. RTE seem to realise that Hamilton is prone to this type of journalism yet for some reason they keep him.

I think others on this forum should respect the original poster's opinion. Its not necessarily wrong. There are many things that Hamilton says that are inappropriate. Many people dont even notice them, but if you know Hamilton at all you will realise that this is a full-time hobby for him and he would love it if people get riled by his remarks.

I vote with my thumb on the remote - I turn over the channel or mute him!

Koyaanisqatsi

Originally posted by ReefBreak
I didn't find it offensive.

People who think remembering the hunger strikers is more important than the memory of the hundreds of innocent civilians murdered by Republican & Loyalist paramilitaries - now that I find offensive.

I don't think Bobby Sands actually murdered anyone.
Whereas Thatcher gave the order to blow 330 Argentinian
sailors out of the water in retreat. You are talking toss Reefbreak.

Raskolnikov

Originally posted by ReefBreak

People who think remembering the hunger strikers is more important than the memory of the hundreds of innocent civilians murdered by Republican & Loyalist paramilitaries - now that I find offensive.

I find it offensive that you value the lives of some people more than others.

sceptre

Originally posted by Koyaanisqatsi
I don't think Bobby Sands actually murdered anyone.
Whereas Thatcher gave the order to blow 330 Argentinian
sailors out of the water in retreat. You are talking toss Reefbreak.

Firstly the Belgrano may or may not actually have been in retreat. Apart from the doubts at the time, the Belgrano captain, Héctor Bonzo, confirmed in May 2003 (edit: here's a link) that the Belgrano wasn't in retreat but was changing direction as a temporary measure. I suspect the captain of the ship would know what his plans were better than you or I. Hence, it wasn't in retreat.

Secondly it was an armed military ship (equipped with five six-inch turrets and carrying Exocet missiles, accompanied by two destroyers carrying the same missiles) in the middle of a declared war and destroyed by torpedos from a submarine of the country that had declared the war.

Thirdly, while Thatcher authorised the change in the TF324 orders that facilitated the attack of vessels outside the exclusion zone, I'm afraid you are incorrect when you say that Thatcher "gave the order" as the order was issued by Rear Admiral Sandy Woodward as head of TF317 and Admiral Terence Lewin as Admiral of the Fleet. Thatcher facilitated the order and I'm not hair-splitting as the order was already issued by Woodward pending the TF324 standing order change.

The result, which due to the likely acceptance of the peace terms proposed by Peruvian president Fernando Belaunde Terry (abandoned after the Belgrano sinking but which incidentally weren't formally explained by Alexander Haig as the go-between until after 2 May when the belgrano was sunk) was in retrospect a retrograde step from a conclusion to the hostilities and over 320 sailors died. And the Sun got to act like a little kid. The case taken by relatives of the 323 fatalities to the ECHR in June 2000, alleging that the ship was outside the theatre of operations and hence in violation of the 1907 Hague wartime conventions, failed.

I'll leave it as an exercise for the reader to work out who's talking toss.

And the Belgrano sinking has nothing to do with the price of cabbage.

Meanwhile I'm afraid 1000maniacs' link to the conference paper that makes reference to "the oxygen of publicity" doesn't lend much, if any credence to the idea that Thatcher used the phrase in 1981 or at any time before 1985 as there's no date to reference the quote (which could have well come from 1985 - it was her stated policy (and never came up all that much before the debate on the banning of SF from the airwaves that first arose in a big way in the UK in that year). I've come across an actual date of an actual speech that as far as I can see from searching the web is generally regarded as the source of the quote (any Thatcher quotation references specifically refer to the ABA speech). I don't think it's particularly important either way but given that it's the basis of your objection, the objection doesn't become valid as an objection (even before becoming an actual valid objection, snother thing again) unless there's something to tie the phrase to before 1985 at least. And no, I'm not a Thatcher fan (see? and as I said here, I'd rather she stuck behind a shop counter but it's fairly important to identify the validity of a stick before beating anyone (even George Hamilton as a sports commentator) with it.

Cork

Originally posted by Koyaanisqatsi
I don't think Bobby Sands actually murdered anyone.
Whereas Thatcher gave the order to blow 330 Argentinian
sailors out of the water in retreat. You are talking toss Reefbreak.

We have gotten away from a pointless tribal mindset.

30 years of IRA violence was a waste of time. It achieved nothing only caranage, distruction, hurt and pain.

John Hume and the SDLP saw the stupidity of mindless tit for tat violence.

We are now at a point in NI that we should have been at more than 30 years ago.

Tribal politics is crazy in a devided society.

In NI, John Hume saw thru this narrow minded tribal mindset.

Everyboby now accepts the consent principle & the GFA contains much of John Humes policies.

Koyaanisqatsi

Originally posted by sceptre
I'm afraid you are incorrect when you say that Thatcher "gave the order" as the order was issued by Rear Admiral Sandy Woodward as head of TF317 and Admiral Terence Lewin as Admiral of the Fleet. .

But who does the book stop at? Methinks Woodward's and Lewins Commander In Chief and all round Boards.ie favourite, M.Thatcher.
The bottom line is Hamilton was wrong and innappropriate to quote old Thatch in his
commentary of a football game on RTE. To many Irish, quoting Thatcher is as insulting as quoting Gerry Adams.
And as redspider said, being able to call up this quote so readily says a lot for the mindset of George Hamilton.

sceptre

Originally posted by Koyaanisqatsi
But who does the book stop at? Methinks Woodward's and Lewins Commander In Chief and all round Boards.ie favourite, M.Thatcher.
The bottom line is Hamilton was wrong and innappropriate to quote old Thatch in his
commentary of a football game on RTE. To many Irish, quoting Thatcher is as insulting as quoting Gerry Adams.
And as redspider said, being able to call up this quote so readily says a lot for the mindset of George Hamilton.

On the buck-stopping, go back and read the bit in my post just after the bit you quoted. Thatcher was PM, Lewin was effectively CiC and Woodward issued the order first. In fairness, wartime (or peacetime) buck-resting, even if it rests with Thatcher is different to "Whereas Thatcher gave the order to blow 330 Argentinian
sailors out of the water in retreat". Are you pulling back on the "in retreat" bit?

Also, I'm not too sure where you're getting the idea that Thatcher is an "all round Boards.ie favourite" (though I'm sure it felt nice to type). Did you read the thread I linked to in my last post? If not, go read it. If you did, read it again. People reading will check it out so you may as well have a look as well. Thatcher's never been one of my favourites, but I draw the line at popping inaccuracies about things or people. Besides, there are so many actual sticks to beat the woman with.

Moving back to the original point of the thread, I'd have been able to call up the quote as readily and it says nothing of my mindset (though it may indicate an ability I may have to retain quotes) so I'm not all that sure George Hamilton goes home and gets excited while reading Thatcher's memoirs and watching Orange order marches. I suspect it says as much about the mindset of those who would be aggrieved at the idea of someone quoting Thatcher (which judging by the way you reckon it is wouldn't even have to include a reference to Bobby Sands' eating habits) but that's just my opinion.

I'll say this much though: "oxygen of publicity" is a pretty good phrase. If no-one took any notice of streakers (ignoring whether streakers in particular or in general have rational, er, points) there wouldn't be all that much streaking. The notion that putting a particular group of words in a certain order and referencing an original source for that arrangement shouldn't be done for whatever reason smacks of something not very nice. If I wanted to use "How fortunate for leaders that men do not think" (it's got a few translations but "leaders" is one of the usual ones) and applied it to Irish voters for example, I'd be a little disappointed if people told me I shouldn't say it just because it was originally said by a failed Austrian painter who didn't like the Jews. Anyone for a list of proscribed quotes?

BuffyBot

...all round Boards.ie favourite, M.Thatcher.

Why does this ring a bell...

Koyaanisqatsi

Point 1- It wasn’t a streaker, just an over excited fully clothed fan.
Point 2- The Belgrano was in retreat when sunk, whether temporary or not, and should not have been attacked. The Geneva convention failed those Argentinean sailors in 1982.
Point 3- I'm not sure whether 10000maniacs was correct about the timing of the Thatcher quote, but prove him/her wrong, nobody has done that yet. As far as I am concerned it sounds a convincing quote.
Point 4- Yes "oxygen of publicity" is a pretty good phrase, but paraphrasing and then acknowledging Thatcher’s foreign political policy quotations during a soccer final is beyond the pale for many people and if not, should be, even if it is in the context of a pitch invader.
Point 5- Using "How fortunate for leaders that men do not think" in the context of a football match would be fine as long as the original political leader who coined it wasn't acknowledged in the same breadth.
Point 6- How could 10000maniacs be accused of being a Sinn Feiner?

sceptre

Originally posted by Koyaanisqatsi
Point 2- The Belgrano was in retreat when sunk, whether temporary or not, and should not have been attacked.

The captain of the boat specifically says it wasn't. Were you steering the boat?

The Belgrano sinking isn't all that relevant as you well know, so I assume everyone has spotted the diversionary tactic. Take it to a new thread if you give a rats.

Point 3- I'm not sure whether 10000maniacs was correct about the timing of the Thatcher quote, but prove him/her wrong, nobody has done that yet. As far as I am concerned it sounds a convincing quote.

You'd like someone to prove that someone didn't do something during the course of a month or perhaps for four years after? I've provided a date when the phrase was used, given a verifiable newspaper reference for it, given background to the usage of the phrase on that date. No offence to 10000maniacs but given that there's no date reference provided from anyone before 1985, so far it belongs in the box marked "said by some bloke on the Internet" and hence the unverified Sands context isn't even relevant. There's an archive of many Thatcher speeches I've just found (I'm trying to help Koyaanisqatsi's indignation here) by doing a google here. The site says "Between 1945-90 every statement made by Margaret Thatcher is listed, as far as can be known" so that's something to work with. First reference there to oxygen and publicity is 1985. And what Koyaanisqatsi is suggesting ("prove summat didn't happen then") is frankly the kind of suggestion that would get even kids pointing and laughing.

Your other four points have either been addressed or aren't really all that important to me, though they may be for someone else.

AmenToThat

Originally posted by Peter C
SF/IRA supporters will always find something to whinge about and slate the British.

Picking on George Hamilton just shows them up for what they are!

And here we have another example of the "Irish right" trying to hang everything they dont agree with that happens in this country (even when its in cyberspace) on SF!
:rolleyes:
Thatcher is/was a **** and it offends me that anyone would quote from a fascist no matter what context they use it in.

Time Magazine

Originally posted by AmenToThat
And here we have another example of the "Irish right" trying to hang everything they dont agree with that happens in this country (even when its in cyberspace) on SF!
......
it offends me that anyone would quote from a fascist no matter what context they use it in.

Sinn Féin, the Irish Fascist Party. Let's not get into it, you know what I mean.
This thread is another example of the "Irish republicans" trying to hang a rope around anything even remotely connection to Britain or Unionism (even when it's in cyberspace).

And yes , I agree, no fascist should ever be quoted ever, not for historical reasons, not for political reasons, not if they said "My name is Jim", not if what they said hold any credence (don't we know that everything ever said by any Fascist ever was wrong), not even if dumb people assume that Conservatives and Fascists are the same thing and you'd like to quote both to point out the differences. In the great tradition of those dirty British pigs in Westminister "Hear hear!"