Publicans defy smoking ban

arcadegame2004

What do you think of the decision by Ronan Lawless in Galway to allow smoking in his pub (can't remember the name of it) in contravention of the smoking-ban? Supposedly another publican has joined in.

I personally demand that the Government clamp down on this hard. A selfish minority has no right to force us to breathe in their carcenagenic fumes.

These publicans blame the smoking-ban for a loss of business. In fact the true reason is the outrageous prices that the pubs expect us to pay, which is causing more and more people to drink at home instead.

Bateman

He'll be done in, and made an example of. He has to be. If he's not prosecuted, he will inspire lots more to do the same, and then, in the end, they will all have to be prosecuted, otherwise the law will have to be repealed, and that would constitute a breathtaking U-turn, even by FF standards.

DublinWriter

I really hope this doesn't turn out to be a debate on the smoking ban again.

What to say about this?

Well, to Weaseal Martin the Smoking Ban that seems to be the gift that keeps on giving.

It's the perfect 'smoke screen' (no pun intended) to the fact that we're paying through the nose for PRSI and most of us have costly private BUPA/VHI health care too, yet there are still people dying on trolleys.

FF stated in 2002 that they would end waiting lists by May 2004, yet here we are.

Let me save ‘Cork’ et al the bother of replying by giving out the stock FF rebuttal which is “The current Fianna Fail/PD government have doubled the budget for Heathcare in the last five year”.

It’s a mute argument. In the past five years I've doubled the amount I spend on petrol and groceries and am I getting more now? Like hell I am.

The usual FF’er tactic at this point is to go on about the wastage in the Health Care system here and how it needs reform.

Yet wasn’t it FF who axed plans last year to consolidate the 11 management heavy health-boards who run the hospitals in this country?

Birmingham has the same population as Ireland, yet all public healthcare comes under the central control of the NHS. In this country we have the Eastern Health Board, South Western Heath board, etc, etc, all groaning with heavy and expensive layers of middle and upper management.

As well as that, Weaseal Martin’s own government department employ more clerical and admin staff than there are actual patients in the system at any given time.

I pray every night that someone will form a smoker’s party, or at least stand in Weaseal Martin’s Cork constituency in 2007 and make sure that this guy never holds public office again.

Wake up guys, the smoking ban was basically an exercise in arranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.

mike65

The powers that be have absolutely no choice but to see the full weight of the law is applied. It strikes me this guy in Galway is rather glorying in his notoriety.

Mike.

mike65

Dublin writer I'm just in favour of clean air! And seing the law of the land applied without fear or favour. If you fancy starting a Smokers Party go ahead.

Mike.

blobert

I think its "Fiber Magees" or something like that. There used to be one in Dublin until a few years ago. Aparatantly nobody has been fined or prosecuted so far regarding the smoking ban.

BuffyBot

I personally demand...

ROFL - but come on out of that. If you want to personally demand, start writing/emailing/phoning them. Whinging about it on here will do bugger all.

I walked by said pub today - quite obvious the reason for the downturn in trade is the huge road works going on. No one would want to drink in a pub which looks like a bombsite outside!

simu

Originally posted by BuffyBot
I walked by said pub today - quite obvious the reason for the downturn in trade is the huge road works going on. No one would want to drink in a pub which looks like a bombsite outside!

There was an article on this in today's Irish Times - the pub-owner mentioned the roadworks but claimed that was only a small part of the problem. Disruption of business by roadworks doesn't make dramatic headlines, more like.:rolleyes:

tylerdurden

Sean O'Neill's approach

I don't personally agree with the above approach... he is smoking in one pub a day and leaving an "I skmoked here" card with them!

He has had different responses, only barred from one or two I think...

Anyway, personally I love the smoking ban I think it's beautiful and one of the few cases of backbone shown by any of our politicians.

por

What the pub owner in Galway, and the few others that have followed have just said is 'Listen hear staff, I don't give a f**k about your health, all I care about is the bottom line', he should be boycotted by all non smokers.

Did anyone hear the two publicans (one in Kerry , one in Donegal) arguing about the ban on the Last Word.

The guy from Donegal was as forward thinking a publican as you will ever hear. He was making the point that since the ban was introduced more people are coming for meals, snacks and coffee and business is great. He was located minutes from the border and had no loss in trade. He also said that pubs would have to come up with ideas to bring back business, radical crazy ideas like reducing prices and offering value for money etc.

The guy from Kerry was trotting out the usual publican poor mouth thing and accused the Donegal man of being a FF supporter for praising the ban.

It was hilarious

Frank Grimes

Originally posted by tylerdurden
I don't personally agree with the above approach... he is smoking in one pub a day and leaving an "I skmoked here" card with them!

I don't get some people's attitude to this ban.
It's the law, he's breaking the law by doing this.
If a couple of scumbags blogged about how many syringe hold-ups they did everyday there'd be uproar, but people break this one and they consider themselves on some sort of crusade (to kill themselves ultimately and take others down with them which makes the whole thing even more surreal)

Wrt the original post, I actually agree with arcadegame2004 :eek:
The Government should use people like that publican as an example. Fine him as much as possible and suspend his licence for a few months, then see how clever he thinks he is.
For the other publicans who are copying him at the moment, they should double whatever this guy gets. They're just taking the piss even more than he is.
If they're allowed get away with this, even lightly, it undermines the law of the land completely.

ChipZilla

Originally posted by Frank Grimes
If a couple of scumbags blogged about how many syringe hold-ups they did everyday

You're comparing someone smoking in public to somebody doing a syringe holdup?

That shows the kind of deranged thinking I've come to expect from the anti-smoking contingent on here...

Frank Grimes

Originally posted by ChipZilla
You're comparing someone smoking in public to somebody doing a syringe holdup?

Did I compare it to that? I just used another form of law breaking as an example.
So you think breaking the smoking ban is an ok law to break?
I'm not anti smoking either, people can kill themselves anyway they want as far as I'm concerned, but it's the law of the land now. People can't just pick and choose which ones suit them.
I'm not particularly fond of paying tax, doesn't mean I'm going to the Times and declare to them that I refuse to pay it just because it doesn't suit me.

Batbat

this has been discussed adnausia on these boards, with heated and even valid points on either side of the argument, I dont see people changing their minds about this issue, your either for it or against it

On a matter of principle Im against this implementation of the ban, but in practice Im for it because as a smoker I like sitting in a bar without choking to death.

These publicans blame the smoking-ban for a loss of business. In fact the true reason is the outrageous prices that the pubs expect us to pay, which is causing more and more people to drink at home instead.

btw I agree with this statement 100%

BuffyBot

There was an article on this in today's Irish Times - the pub-owner mentioned the roadworks but claimed that was only a small part of the problem. Disruption of business by roadworks doesn't make dramatic headlines, more like.

Exactly. Looking at it, the roadworks (which are pretty major) are the less news-worthy cause of the problem.

Did I compare it to that? I just used another form of law breaking as an example.

No, but in fairness you weren't using a like for like example.

Frank Grimes

Originally posted by BuffyBot
No, but in fairness you weren't using a like for like example.

It wasn't meant to be a like for like example, just another example of law breaking.

jay567

Just because something is written into the law does not mean it should be adheard to blindly. This was something forced onto us without choice. Y were new liquor lincencess not created for non smoking pubs at a cheaper price, and allow for natural compitition?

The more coments i see from anti smokers the more i realise how fu** we are going to be in the future with civil rights.

We all know smokings bad for u, but to lock down a country like they have is terrible.

dahamsta

You were using the example to scaremonger Frank Grimes, like all the other Smoking Bad fairies before you. At least be a man and fess up to it.

adam

ChipZilla

Originally posted by Frank Grimes
Did I compare it to that? I just used another form of law breaking as an example.

Yes you did - don't try and twist it round. Tylerdurden commented on the smoking guy's blog, to which you countered with that stupid comment about blogging syringe holdups:

"If a couple of scumbags blogged about how many syringe hold-ups they did everyday there'd be uproar"

That says to me there should be uproar that someone had the gall to write about being naughty enough to smoke in public. Maybe you should have used a less extreme example. :rolleyes:

Originally posted by Frank Grimes
So you think breaking the smoking ban is an ok law to break?.

Yes, it's a bull**** law. Especially when there are far more serious "crimes" going unpunished around us every day - speeding, drunk driving, assaults, muggings, joyriding, tax evasion, corrupt politicians, corrupt financial institutions, etc etc. If the government put as much energy into cracking down on street crime or corruption I'd sleep a lot sounder at night.

Originally posted by Frank Grimes
I'm not anti smoking either, people can kill themselves anyway they want as far as I'm concerned, but it's the law of the land now. People can't just pick and choose which ones suit them..

Oh yeah, I forgot we live in such a squeaky clean country where we can get on a high horse regarding smoking. :rolleyes: People pick and choose which laws to obey every day. See the above examples.

Batbat

crack addics are routinely ignored by the police around some parts of dublin, yet they will go to a mothers house and arrest a person for not paying their tv license, or enforce stupid smoking bans

Frank Grimes

Originally posted by dahamsta
You were using the example to scaremonger Frank Grimes, like all the other Smoking Bad fairies before you. At least be a man and fess up to it.

How could I be trying to scaremongering, seriously?
I did not compare the actual physical act of smoking to the act of a hold up. Both actions are crimes (well smoking in a public place anyway), therefore if one person blogs about one crime, how is it better or worse than another blog about another crime?
I'm not "fessing" up to anything, that remark was nothing to do with the main point of my post. You're reading far too much into that example.

Originally posted by ChipZilla
Yes you did - don't try and twist it round

I did not compare the act of smoking in public places to anything.
If I said a blog about some guy evading income tax would ye all get so worked up? Or does that fall into the "OK" crimes too?

Yes, it's a bull**** law

Some people consider the laws about joyriding to be something similar. Should they also be allowed to pick what laws suits them?
It's not up to you or I to decide what laws people obey in this country.

People pick and choose which laws to obey every day. See the above examples.

So that makes it ok then?

Frank Grimes

Originally posted by Batbat
crack addics are routinely ignored by the police around some parts of dublin, yet they will go to a mothers house and arrest a person for not paying their tv license, or enforce stupid smoking bans

Well the drug laws don't really suit the drug addicts, so it's alright.

Batbat

Well the drug laws don't really suit the drug addicts, so it's alright.

your missing the point or dont understand it or something, no point in discussing it any further

Frank Grimes

Originally posted by Batbat
your missing the point or dont understand it or something, no point in discussing it any further

I'm not, I know where you're coming from wrt the law on smoking in public places (leaving aside the sarcasm in my last post).
Fair enough, people think it's a stupid law etc. etc. and that there's worse crimes being commited everyday and so on.
If that train of though/logic is continued on in a society, the consequences are pretty obvious do you not think?
You think that it's a bad idea to ban smoking in public places. I have no doubt you have full respect for the law of land in all other regards.
If certain sections of society start deciding for themselves that other laws should be blatently ignored it could have pretty dire consequences for everyone.
I'm NOT saying smoking in public will lead to a collapse in society before anyone tries to tell me what I'm thinking.
I just think that laws should be respected, and not just left up to Joe Public to decide whether they're worthwhile or not.

BUMP!

You cant pick and choose laws but there are cases where the law is completely unrealistic or not really thought out -e.g. why is the speed limit the same in wet conditions as in dry? Why do we HAVE to wear seatbelts in 30mph zones at all times where mobility to see all around you is sometimes more important? (This last point is a personal opinion - not an invitation to debate seatbelts) The point being that sometimes if you overlegislate people then you encourage them to break the smaller laws which always lead onto the bigger ones...

(there are better examples but dont have time to think of them)

Frank Grimes

Originally posted by BUMP!
You cant pick and choose laws but there are cases where the law is completely unrealistic or not really thought out

In fairness, the benefits of the smoking ban would appear to outweigh the draw backs.

therecklessone

Originally posted by DublinWriter


It’s a mute argument. In the past five years I've doubled the amount I spend on petrol and groceries and am I getting more now? Like hell I am.

One quick comment then I'm outta here.

I'm driving 5 years now, and I have never paid 50 cent (or Punt equivalent) for petrol.

BUMP!

In fairness, the benefits of the smoking ban would appear to outweigh the draw backs.

Could not the same be said about outlawing alcohol???

Cons: Source of enjoyment lost.
Loss of revenue to the exchequer

Pros: -Elimination of drink related deaths
-Reduction in numbers attending outpatients (injuries).
-improvement in health
-keep on going....

Frank Grimes

Originally posted by BUMP!
Could not the same be said about outlawing alcohol???

Smoking isn't banned outright. It's just banned in public places.
When someone dies/develops serious illnesses from passive alcohol intake, then yes it should be banned in public places.
And I don't mean as a result of drink driving/drunken brawls etc.

DublinWriter

Originally posted by Frank Grimes
I don't get some people's attitude to this ban.
It's the law, he's breaking the law by doing this.
If a couple of scumbags blogged about how many syringe hold-ups they did everyday there'd be uproar, but people break this one and they consider themselves on some sort of crusade (to kill themselves ultimately and take others down with them which makes the whole thing even more surreal)

If they're allowed get away with this, even lightly, it undermines the law of the land completely.

So if there was a law requiring you to wear yellow boots on a Monday morning, would you obey it?

The law is not an absolute repository of common sense and sometimes it is an ass.

Only in Ireland can someone be let off with just community service for the purchase and possession of child porn and in the same week in Feb 2003 another guy be sentanced to a week in Mountjoy for the failure to pay a fine relating to throwing a cigarette butt out of his car window in Dublin.

Basically, we're screwed.

I thought the Brits were tetchy and lovers of rules and regulations, but we've really outshone them this time.

People make a personal choice to smoke *AND* work in a pub.

From personal experience I find the majority of people who support the ban in pubs are not regular pub goers themselves.

I said it before, but smokers will have the last laugh on this one because utimately it will be *all* PAYE workers who will have to stump up for the billion or so shortfall in excise duty caused by the ban.

Remeber *each* cigarette smoked nets McCreevy 23c.

dahamsta

Originally posted by Frank Grimes
How could I be trying to scaremongering, seriously?

:rolleyes: If you can't even fess up to something as simple as this, I have no reason to be reading your posts. Welcome to my Ignore List. You'll have plenty of company.

adam