Arsenal's lack of new blood

smemon

for over 2 seasons now arsenal have only brought in a handfull of players: lehmann, reyes, van persie the ones that spring to mind.

it went in their favour last season as they were stronger than ever before but that wont last forever.

their squad outside the 1st 11 isnt as strong as it used to be and surely the same side with the same players will become predictable. this season is the real test for arsenal, retaining the title whilst trying to go further in europe.

but with the same side how can they go any further? thats my point. chelsea at this stage could field 3 or 4 decent sides and utd have got in a few youngsters this season in particular. added to the signings last year they've brought in 12 or more.

this season utd will be hungrier than ever and will want the trophy back, chelsea too will have a real chance now the side has had time to settle. for me theres 2 sides in it and arsenal aren't 1.

talla

I hope this isn't a troll. I will leave open for now but keep a very close eye on it.

jesus_thats_gre

Its a fair point.. However, Arsenal have the best first 11 of any club in England so they do not need major changes. What you will probably see for the next few years is 1 or 2 replacements being purchased every summer to replace the lesser quality and older players... Combine that will long term investments like Reyes and they are doing all the right things. Wenger knows what he is doing.

Mind you, if you want to grasp at straws and suggest that Arsenal are on a downward slope and that United will become all powerful again, you are more than welcome.

smemon

Originally posted by jesus_thats_gre
Its a fair point.. However, Arsenal have the best first 11 of any club in England so they do not need major changes.

yeah thats true but with suspensions and injuries it's rare you get to pick your best 11.

it's not a troll. am i not allowed to criticise a side just because i dont support them?!

squad wise i dont think arsenal can match chelsea, no1 can but i think they've fallen behind manu too. their the champions so maybe wenger believes if somethings not broken why fix it.

we'll see but arsenal have 2 heavyweights to get past at least. plus if liverpool have a decent manager they could have a say in the title, probably not challenge any of the 3 though.

smiaras

This post has been deleted.

Harry2001

Originally posted by jesus_thats_gre
Its a fair point.. However, Arsenal have the best first 11 of any club in England so they do not need major changes. What you will probably see for the next few years is 1 or 2 replacements being purchased every summer to replace the lesser quality and older players... Combine that will long term investments like Reyes and they are doing all the right things. Wenger knows what he is doing.

Agreed, Wenger gets it right most of the time and only buys class, unlike Ferguson who is more hit and miss

Time will tell on Mourinho's transfers

talla

United have not bought well over the summer, they have bough smith, one of the most over rated players going and Heinze an unproven left back. The squad is still very weak, Arsenals is still stronger as they proved last year.

Xterminator

I dont think many people feel Wenger has to strengthen the team, more so the squad.

In fact perhaos they biggest achievment is preventing the loss of their starrs over the summer, as players like Pires and Henry would be very much wanted by the more flush clubs like Chelsea and Real.

Wenger knows there is no sense buying big name players who will be unhappy if they dont make 1st team regularly,

Thats why i think wenger is wise in bringing in the cream of current youngsters, as they will accept a place in the reserves, or on the bench more readily.

Becasue these signing dont attract headlines, unless your paying the kind of money they paid for Reyes, it can seem liike Arsenal are a bit quiet on the transfer side.

X

mike65

Asrenal have reached that stage Liverpool were at the the "good old days" when only a few players would leave and be replaced a season. The core remined strong and they built upon the collective experience.

Mike.

yom 1

Isnt part of the reason that arsenal are buying the relatively unknown players
is because they don't have any money to buy big name players
cos lets face it they are on fire in england (if only i could say the same for the Pool) and could well pull big named players

I thought all there money was tied up in the construction of a new stadium

mr_angry

Originally posted by smemon
squad wise i dont think arsenal can match chelsea, no1 can but i think they've fallen behind manu too.

Wow. If only we had quality in reserve like Winston Bogarde. :rolleyes:

eirebhoy

UEFA are planning to put a limit of 25 players per squad from the 06/07 season like they have it in the CL and UEFA cup. Teams will also have to have at least 7 or 8 home grown players (up to 4 players who've come through the ranks and a further 4 trained in the same country) on a teamsheet of 18 for matchday's.

Arsenal have a squad of around 25 and Mourinho is cutting his squad down to around 25 too. I don't see any problem for Arsenal TBH.

Raskolnikov

Originally posted by talla
United have not bought well over the summer, they have bough smith, one of the most over rated players going and Heinze an unproven left back. The squad is still very weak, Arsenals is still stronger as they proved last year.

They didn't buy well last Summer either (bar Ronaldo), they're now stuck with a squad of one or two gems along with far too many average players.

jesus_thats_gre

Chelsea are going to be no better this season than last season. If they continued with Ranieri and added 1 or 2 players that would make a genuine difference, they could have gone on to win the league this season. The squad looked liked they were developing a real hunger in later parts of last season and had gelled amazingly quickly considering the amount of new faces.. Now that Mourinho has come in, numerous new faces have been added and half of the squad is waiting the chop, Chelsea are now in the exact same position as they were a year ago. Loads of quality individuals but no one is sure if they can be a team... AGAIN. Unless Mourinho can get control of the squad and club like he says, this will keep happening while the Ruski has loads of cash.

PHB

"Heinze an unproven left back"

What are you basing this on?

You ever seen him play? I guess he is unproven in the premiership but his record in france is very impressive

---

As for the whole thread, everyone seems to be writing off liverpool? Nobody else think they might be able to chalange for the title this year?

I don't think Chelsea are gona come in the top 3 next year.

mike65

Originally posted by PHB
As for the whole thread, everyone seems to be writing off liverpool? Nobody else think they might be able to chalange for the title this year?

Wont know that until we know who's coming and who's going even then it may take a while to thread everything together. 2004/05 will be about renewal and bedding in I expect. Still have to finnish with strong points total though.

Mike.

eyerer

Originally posted by mike65
Wont know that until we know who's coming and who's going even then it may take a while to thread everything together. 2004/05 will be about renewal and bedding in I expect. Still have to finnish with strong points total though.

Mike.

i agree, i'd be happy with 4th again, but with a significantly smaller gap to the top 3 and being on the right track to further improvement

talla

Originally posted by PHB
"Heinze an unproven left back"

What are you basing this on?

You ever seen him play? I guess he is unproven in the premiership but his record in france is very impressive

---

As for the whole thread, everyone seems to be writing off liverpool? Nobody else think they might be able to chalange for the title this year?

I don't think Chelsea are gona come in the top 3 next year.

djemba djemba's record in France was very impressive, Diouf's record in France was good, kleberson's record in Brazil was good, but how did these players perform in the premiership or europe - terrible. I don't see any of Uniteds signings adding anything to the squad thats new or different but I'd love to be proven wrong.

Pepe LeFrits

for over 2 seasons now arsenal have only brought in a handfull of players: lehmann, reyes, van persie the ones that spring to mind.

it went in their favour last season as they were stronger than ever before but that wont last forever.

their squad outside the 1st 11 isnt as strong as it used to be and surely the same side with the same players will become predictable. this season is the real test for arsenal, retaining the title whilst trying to go further in europe.

Keown, Stepanovs, Wiltord and Kanu have departed, while players such as Senderos, Garry, Pennant, Reyes and Van Persie are available to take their places. Good exchange imo.

but with the same side how can they go any further? thats my point. chelsea at this stage could field 3 or 4 decent sides

and when football becomes 44 a side then they'll be sorted.

and utd have got in a few youngsters this season in particular. added to the signings last year they've brought in 12 or more.

Congratulations to them, I wonder why so many players were needed to be brought in though... I'm not so sure buying so many players is a good thing. With regards to Arsenal and youngsters, since last summer Arsenal have brought in the Senderos, Clichy, Fabregas, Reyes, Van Persie, Lupoli and Bendtner(?), while increasing emphasis on youth development has brought a number of others close to the first team.

this season utd will be hungrier than ever and will want the trophy back, chelsea too will have a real chance now the side has had time to settle. for me theres 2 sides in it and arsenal aren't 1.

Another bold smemon prediction? Against Arsenal? Gasp! Seems to me that Chelsea seem to be doing anything but settling.

Arsenal have never retained the title under Wenger which should give them a good appetite to win the PL, and i don't think the 2002/03 collapse will have been forgotten nor will last season's FA & CL exits.

Incidently Arsenal have never finished outside of the top 2 under Wenger.

jesus_thats_gre

Originally posted by PHB

As for the whole thread, everyone seems to be writing off liverpool? Nobody else think they might be able to chalange for the title this year?

I wouldnt want to go and hex anything now... I belived Liverpool had a good enough squad for the past 2 seasons but GH was not able to get the best of good players... Hopefully Benitez will be able to beat top drawer performances into them and have a good season. Top 4 with a narrow gap from the top and I will be satisfied...

Big Ears

when I saw this topic come up , I immediately scrolled down to see if Kaids posted , and despite me and him praising Arsenals youngster on so many occasions people forget they even exist .

The only youth team stronger than them in England is Villa's , but with the likes of Stokes and Hoyte , coming through they have plenty of young strenght in depth .

The only problem I can see is expierence .

I predict another title for Arsenal this season .

and for those of u that dont know im not an Arsenal fan .

SteM

Originally posted by Harry2001
Agreed, Wenger gets it right most of the time and only buys class, unlike Ferguson who is more hit and miss

Mmm, not totally true. Just because Aresenal have a very good squad now does not mean that Wenger only buys class players. He's made his fair share of mistakes like any any manager.

smemon

Originally posted by Big Ears
I predict another title for Arsenal this season .

thats a very brave prediction. yes arsenal are defending champions but that will be their downfall. maintaining that hunger and formidable record will no doubt bring it's pressures, something arsenal have not learned to handle.

last year arsenal strolled through the season unbeaten, utd and chelsea looked good at times but 38games unbeaten almost guarantees the championship.

once the pressure was on in europe they choked, almost going out in the 1st group stage, massive match against manu in the cup and again they were found wanting. plus they were a bit lucky keeping the record intact the last few games of the season when the expectation was there.

add that to the season before were some people say they beat themselves theres an obvious weakness there.

eirebhoy

Originally posted by smemon
thats a very brave prediction.

C'mon Smemon. If someone predicted United to win the league you'd probably agree with them. Arsenal are the best team in England atm and the bookie's odds of 11/8 says it all. I mean, you'd get odd's of 11/8 on Liverpool to win their first match of the season.

SteM

It's a brave prediction to make before a ball has even been kicked.

The bookies odds are mad - no way should Arsenal be 11/8 and United 3/1 (I got 4/1 off my mate). There won't be that much of a difference between the 2 clubs at the end of the season I don't think.

GuanYin

I dunno about that. Look at the teams in contention.

Arsenal - seem to have let alot of players go, but brought through some good youth last year. Still think they'll buy some players eithe rnow or at christmas but all in all as strong as last season.

Man Utd - Ferdinand missing for teh start of the campaign wont help and I wouldn't expect him to slot straightinto the team (fitness is not match fitnness). Smith is a decent player but I dont see them as particularly stronger than last year.

Chelsea - Silly move replacing Ranieri and loss of several players now leaves Chelsea exactly where they were last season. A manager and team that do not know each other or their best system at the seasons start.

Liverpool - Same problem as Chelsea although I expect better things of them this year.

Newcastle - Hard one to call, last seasons quad should have done better. Probably 5th again.

Now, to my mind that leaves Arsenal another clear run at the Premier title. If they want the CL aswell though, I do think they'll need to strengthen.

SteM

I can't believe that Arsenal will go the whole season unbeaten in the league again, that really was something special. So if Arsenal do drop a few points and *if* United improve against the teams that they dropped stupid points to then the gap at the end of last season will start to close.

I think Chelsea will do really well too. Mourinho may be arrogant but he has the mentality of a winner, they'll win the league over the next 3 sesons if he's allowed to stay.

Also, United have got cover for Ferdinand until he gets back now by buying Heinze. Who knows how Smith will do, we saw this summer how playing with better players can bring out the most in a striker.

Saying a club has a clear run at the title before the season kicks off seems mad to me. I'm a United fan and even I never said anything like that when they were dominating the league.

eirebhoy

Originally posted by SteM
I can't believe that Arsenal will go the whole season unbeaten in the league again, that really was something special. So if Arsenal do drop a few points and *if* United improve against the teams that they dropped stupid points to then the gap at the end of last season will start to close.

Arsenal may not go the whole season unbeaten but they could still improve on last season. Arsenal could go the whole of next season losing 8 matches and still get the same amount of points they did last season (or more realistically, 28 wins, 6 draws and 4 losses = 90 points). People think that if Arsenal don't go the season unbeaten that they have automatically done worse than last season.

Saying a club has a clear run at the title before the season kicks off seems mad to me.

The bookie's take most outright bets in at the start of the season and every paper gives their prediction at the start of the season. It's nothing new.

SteM

Originally posted by eirebhoy
Arsenal may not go the whole season unbeaten but they could still improve on last season. Arsenal could go the whole of next season losing 8 matches and still get the same amount of points they did last season (or more realistically, 28 wins, 6 draws and 4 losses = 90 points). People think that if Arsenal don't go the season unbeaten that they have automatically done worse than last season.

They could improve but they may not, they *may* loose matches and still draw games. That was the point of my post no one knows for sure but syke posted that he thought that Arsenal have a clear run at the league and I disagree.

The bookie's take most outright bets in at the start of the season and every paper gives their prediction at the start of the season. It's nothing new. [/B]

Don't understand what you mean about this mate. It doesn't make sense to me in relation to your quote from me. If you're trying to say that bookies are always right then, yes they usually are but they have been wrong too. Didn't some of them pay out on Arsenal winning the 2002/2003 league before United took it?

Don't get me wrong, I love speculating about the coming season but things won't be as clear cut as people would like to make out.

GuanYin

Originally posted by SteM
They could improve but they may not, they *may* loose matches and still draw games. That was the point of my post no one knows for sure but syke posted that he thought that Arsenal have a clear run at the league and I disagree.

Well let me put it this way. In my opinion, at this stage, having viewed the signings made so far, Arsenal still look a better team than Utd. I dont think Utd will be any better than they were last season and I think Arsenal will be just as good.

I think Chelsea will fare no better and probably a little worse.


So, by that reckoning, Arsenal look to be the best bet for the title.

Jivin Turkey

Originally posted by smemon
once the pressure was on in europe they choked, almost going out in the 1st group stage, massive match against manu in the cup and again they were found wanting. plus they were a bit lucky keeping the record intact the last few games of the season when the expectation was there.

If Arsenal "choked" in Europe, how would you sum up Uniteds performance? So what if Arsenal almost went out in the group stages. THEY DIDNT. Who got further again anyway?

Any team who goes through a season unbeaten needs a bit of luck. In fact any team that wins the championship alone needs a bit of luck. What are you trying to say?

They lost to United because they had to play the game in between 4 other more important games. United were really up for it and deserved to win. Im sure Wenger would have loved to win the cup, but as completely biased as you are you cant deny that the league and the CL were his priorities.

United havnt strengthened their first team. Saha is a better player than Smith. And Heinze will not be an automatic starter. They have also declared that they wont be signing anyone else. Im sure Arsenal will sign at least one more player.

United should worry about catching Chelsea before they think about catching Arsenal.

PHB

I'm not with you on Man Utd not having improved their squad.

Saha I agree is a bette r player than smith, but smtih will really fight to get into the squad, thus pushing saha to do better. It also gives us some cover for Van Nist. Saha and Smith ain't a bad partnership.

Heinze isn't a guarenteed starter, but who is?
I think he is definally gona start, either in the left back position, or centre back. It'll give a lot of depth in defense and push people to gith for places.
This will hopefully fix the only problem in the united defense, crosses, as people will try and close em down more.

Also they said they wouldn't sign any more players, and then signed two "hot prospects from spain and italy"
Man Utd have totally learnt from last season and really downplayed any transfer moves

I can still see a midfielder being bought.

----

As for Arsenal, I agree that Arsenal players tend to choke in big games, but the thing to remember is that winning the premiership is not about winning the big games, its about always beating West Brom, and Arsenal are not gona lose to West Brom, while Man Utd might.

Man Utd used to win the premiership because they would always beat the West Brom's, and they didn't in the secon half of last season.

Big Ears

he said havent strengthend they're first team not they're , squad which they have obviously strengthend .

PHB

But Heinze is gona be a starter, and the first team is not always the same first team.

He wasn't being pedantic nor should you be

Big Ears

We dont know if Heinze will start .
He's expected to be but u never know .

smemon

people say utd have improved any on last year?! dont be ridiculous.

they've smith, miller, saha, heinz and rio all yet to play together. (i dont count the hyped up teenagers like arsenal do as squad players). utd imo have the best striking options in the league now, the same defence as arsenal's and a lopsided midfield, ronaldo stunning and giggs very poor.

left side of midfield is our only weakness, lets not forget with rio in the side, utd were ahead 4 points ahead of arsenal with the best defensive record before christmas.

plus nobody should write off chelsea, they could easily nick it.

PHB

Thats idiotic logic,
sure we don't know if Henry is gona start, sure we expect him to, but ya never know!

Big Ears

Why Smemmon of course your right ,United will win the league 20 points ahead of Chelsea (in second ) , having won every game , Arsenal will be in a dogfight for relegation with the newly promoted sides and all the other teams will finnish a few points off each other :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: .

note : this post may contain traces of sarcasm .

Big Ears

Originally posted by PHB
Thats idiotic logic,
sure we don't know if Henry is gona start, sure we expect him to, but ya never know!

thats different Henry has been playing in the Premier :eague what 2 years now and was top scorer last season in the league .

Heinze has never played in the Prem before , and it may not suit him .

But then again we all know Man Uniteds South American signings in Forlan , Veron and Kleberson have been a huge success :rolleyes: .

Jivin Turkey

Originally posted by smemon
people say utd have improved any on last year?! dont be ridiculous.

they've smith, miller, saha, heinz and rio all yet to play together. (i dont count the hyped up teenagers like arsenal do as squad players). utd imo have the best striking options in the league now, the same defence as arsenal's and a lopsided midfield, ronaldo stunning and giggs very poor.

left side of midfield is our only weakness, lets not forget with rio in the side, utd were ahead 4 points ahead of arsenal with the best defensive record before christmas.

plus nobody should write off chelsea, they could easily nick it.

Please get your head out of your hole, plus answer my question while your at it. Ill repeat it just in case, "If Arsenal "choked" please rate uniteds performance in the CL?"

And lets be honest, no United havnt improved their first team since last year. Who is going to step in?? Miller? No. Smith? No. Heinze? Possibly, but not every week. Saha is streets ahead of smith, and heinze might turn out to be great but currently he is not that much better than phil neville or o shea or fortune.

Jivin Turkey

Originally posted by smemon
ronaldo stunning and giggs very poor.

And please stop with this ****e!!! Ronaldo stunning??? I do believe he will develop to be a very good player, he is good now, but currently his final ball is ****e, crap, poor, substandard, weak, not good, need I go on? Shelve the
"stunning" comments. For all the step overs in the world, he is not fit to lick beckhams boots as regards delivery. No argument.

jesus_thats_gre

Originally posted by smemon
people say utd have improved any on last year?! dont be ridiculous.

they've smith, miller, saha, heinz and rio all yet to play together. (i dont count the hyped up teenagers like arsenal do as squad players). utd imo have the best striking options in the league now, the same defence as arsenal's and a lopsided midfield, ronaldo stunning and giggs very poor.

left side of midfield is our only weakness, lets not forget with rio in the side, utd were ahead 4 points ahead of arsenal with the best defensive record before christmas.

plus nobody should write off chelsea, they could easily nick it.

Ok was trying to ignore you again but sure here it goes:


1 - How can you sure smith, miller, saha, heinz and rio will improve the squad when they have never played together..

they've smith, miller, saha, heinz and rio all yet to play together.

You say you dont consider hyped up teenagers are part of the squad but go on to say that Ronaldo is marvelous?? Ronaldo is still a teenager and is over hyped. United, while spending 12 million on him, only valued him at 5 million but were forced to raise their bid to secure him ahead of Chelsea... He has another two or three years to before he is considered as good as you say.. He had a very good tournament but his final ball and some of his decisions were dodgy...


Arsenal have a superior defence to that of United. The combination of Campbell and Toure will be even better this season and it is going to take Rio a long time to get his groove on. Silvestre and whoever else are not of the same quality. In left back, Cole is a better option than O'Shea or Heinze, especially after his performaces for England recently. Right back is both clubs weakness in my opinion. Lauren and Neville are both left lacking. Neville made many stupid decsions last season where he looked for fouls, protested decisons and got himself sent off a number of times.. If Arsenal sign Trabelsi, their defence is superior than United in every postion. On paper anyway...

The midfield of United is more of an unknown quantity. Ronaldo will begin to play more and more of a part and Giggs will need to regain the form of previous seasons. Keane will play less and less of a part and I can only guess who will play with him and in place of him when he is rested. Miller will be slowly introduced unless he shows amazing potential for the start.. Phil Neville, while having as good a season as one could have hoped, really limits Uniteds attacking options when played with Keane and a permanent solution must be found. Djemba Dejemba and Kleberson will need to ascert themselves this season or they will be on par with Diouf and Diao as absolutely shocking wastes of money... Arsenals defense is somewhat more certain however. Pires will float in and out of games as normal, Viera will be a continued rock in the centre, will likely be paired with the "world cup winner" Gilberto until they can get a sufficient replacement for him and Ljunberg will pelt down the right flank as normal.. Reyes may be used now and again..... There are very few clubs with a decent right winger, maybe Ronaldo can make a difference there. I hope he does.


United on paper do possibly have the best striking options in Ruud, Saha, Smith, Ole and Bellion... As a Liverpool fan though I am more than aware that what you have on paper means jack ****... This applies to the five players previously listed who have never played together...


Yes United did have the best defensive record and were ahead at Xmas. They were unfortunate that Rio was banned but that be life. If Rio wasnt a thick and the club accepted he was wrong instead of trying to throw their weight around, maybe the ban wouldnt be as harsh.. Anyway, old argument... The banning of Rio and the fall or United still cannot be used as the excuse. Especially considering Arsenal played the best football last season, have the best team, the best striker and were unbeaten the whole season...


As for Chelsea, they will not more forward this season. They will compete with United and possibly, although unlikely) Liverpool for 2nd and 3rd places... United will be concentrating on Arsenal and could do it... Chelsea are once again in the exact same position they were last season, wondering whether all the new faces can gel together quick enough so they do not fall too far behind early on... It will be Christmas before they take off to be honest...


As for Liverpool. Benitez has one the league in the first season of every club he has managed... I don't think it is possible but it does make ya wonder can he maintain this record at this level.


/EPIC POST

PHB

First off let me say I don't think anyone can call who is gona win, because duh

Arsenal last season were amazing, and they pulled off an amazing thing.
But they also had a bit of luck, which I don't think is recognised by most people.
They never had a serious spell of bad injuries, pushing out their top 11 players.

I think that was their reason for their losses in the CL and FA Cup, squad depth. Arsenals top 11 are an amazing team, but I'd easily argue that so are Man Utd's Liverpools, Real Madrid's, Chelsea's etc

Squad depth is whats really important and I still feel Arsenal are lacking there.
My question is what would happen if say Viera and Henry are injured, compare that to what would happen if say Keane and Ruud were injured, or if Zidane and Ronaldo were injured.
Thats how you can measure squad depth, and I think Arsenal are seriously lacking there.

It really pissed me off last season when Arsenal didn't win the CL, I absolutely couldn't believe it when they lost to Chelsea.
When you see them weak in week out gliding over the premiership teams, and then they aren't able to play like that againist Chelsea.
There are two possible reasons for that,

They choke in big games
-Henry does, theres no question about that
but Viera is still an amazing player in big games and so are most of the team, Cole Pires etc.

They lack squad depth
If in the CL Henry wasn't playing well,
their backup isn't great
Reyes and Berkamp
Reyes is good, but not consistant enough just like any young kid
Berkamp was a god, best striker i've ever seen, but not so much anymore.

Similarily, if Viera was injured in midfield, I really think they would be very weak in the centre, when compared to other squad's abilities.

Anyway, heres hoping for a four way race next season for top place, it'd be great to see

Big Ears

Aliadiere is also a striking option if Henry is in injured , or maybe Van Persie could play that role if needs be .

well its most likely Edu would replace Viera in midfield.

Madrid would be found wanting without Zidane and Ronaldo .

with Ruud injured Smith would replace him , he's not prolific but a decent replacement .

and as for Keane , his 'replacement' is probably gonna play more games than him this season .

I dont have a lot of confidence in Djemba or Kleberson (I was hopeing Newcastle would sign him , now im glad they didnt) .

Butt should be offloaded so it looks like Phil Neville will replace Keane , for 30 plus games a season ...hhhhmmmmm .

Edu may not be much better a replacemnt than Phil Neville , but it would be unlikely for Viera to miss 30 + games a season .

Im interested to so Tim Howard's performance this season .

I just feel the Arsenal young players could rise to the occasion while the Man United late 20's mediocre players will be Mediocre .

smemon

Originally posted by Jivin Turkey
Please get your head out of your hole, plus answer my question while your at it. Ill repeat it just in case, "If Arsenal "choked" please rate uniteds performance in the CL?"

And lets be honest, no United havnt improved their first team since last year. Who is going to step in?? Miller? No. Smith? No. Heinze? Possibly, but not every week. Saha is streets ahead of smith, and heinze might turn out to be great but currently he is not that much better than phil neville or o shea or fortune.

to answer your question, utd were knocked out by a 90th minute goal to the eventual champions. up to then we'd won 5 of 6 and conceded only 2 goals.

have you seen heinz play? not enough to brand him a reject before he makes a 1st appearance. miller is under-rated and could well play a big part this season. up until he got injured at celtic he was superb and almost single handedly won a few games.

i'll not comment on heinz because i dont know enough or have seen enough of him. however miller ive seen alot, its amazing how people play him down because he's coming from scottish football.

smith we all know. im not his biggest fan and yes id rate saha above him but he has fight and hunger, it's a nice option to have or even just as cover for saha and ruud.
the future for utd isnt as dull as you make out.

jesus_thats_gre

I don't know, I think Liverpool have good striking options this season... Owen is one of the best when on form, Cisse is very impressive on paper and Baros is after having a stonking tournament... Cisse is well ahead of Saha in pecking order in the French squad and his record of 80 or so goals in 120 or so apperances is impressive. Pongolle and Le Tallec may get their oppurtunity this season also, especially Le Tallec...

eyerer

Originally posted by smemon
utd imo have the best striking options in the league now,

personally think owen, baros and cisse is a pretty tasty strike force
but we're both biased

Djemba Dejemba and Kleberson will need to ascert themselves this season or they will be on par with Diouf and Diao as absolutely shocking wastes of money...

heres hoping
how much did they cost? couldn't be as much as £15m down the pan

Anyway, heres hoping for a four way race next season for top place, it'd be great to see

hear hear, newcastle could be involved too

jesus_thats_gre

Will be a two horse race for first and a three hourse race for the remaining CL spots.

Jivin Turkey

Originally posted by smemon
to answer your question, utd were knocked out by a 90th minute goal to the eventual champions. up to then we'd won 5 of 6 and conceded only 2 goals.

have you seen heinz play? not enough to brand him a reject before he makes a 1st appearance. miller is under-rated and could well play a big part this season. up until he got injured at celtic he was superb and almost single handedly won a few games.

i'll not comment on heinz because i dont know enough or have seen enough of him. however miller ive seen alot, its amazing how people play him down because he's coming from scottish football.

smith we all know. im not his biggest fan and yes id rate saha above him but he has fight and hunger, it's a nice option to have or even just as cover for saha and ruud.
the future for utd isnt as dull as you make out.

OK so Arsenal choked, but United did.........................????? Please define it to me in a word.

I never said Heinze was a reject, in fact I would expect him to play plenty of games`, and do quite well let me add. But he wont be an automatuic starter, maybe in a couple of months.

jesus_thats_gre

http://www.skysports.com/skysports/article/0,,7-1142521,00.html

SAINTS AND REDS JOIN MIDO CHASE
Saturday 10th July 2004

Mido's agent has confirmed to skysports.com that Southampton and Liverpool have emerged as bidders to sign his client.
The French media claimed that both The Saints and Pool were very much in the running for the Egyptian's services.

Now Christophe Henrotay has confirmed that there is interest from both Anfield and St Mary's.

"He is going to probably go on loan to England, we know this," Henrotay told skysports.com.

"I know these clubs (Southampton and Liverpool) are interested and maybe something will happen next week.

"There is a lot of interest and we will have to see."

Newcastle United were strongly tipped to land Mido earlier this summer and Henrotay insists they are not out of the running saying: "They are still interested."

Mido is currently with Marseille, but he is surplus to requirements at The Stade Velodrome and is looking to secure a move to England.

If Liverpool land Mido I would think Baros is definelty moving on...

smemon

Originally posted by Jivin Turkey
OK so Arsenal choked, but United did.........................????? Please define it to me in a word.

I never said Heinze was a reject, in fact I would expect him to play plenty of games`, and do quite well let me add. But he wont be an automatuic starter, maybe in a couple of months.

arsenal were humiliated and were bottom of a poor group after 4games, they picked themselves up but were lucky to even have a chance of qualifying. utd didnt choke on the same level, they didnt lose to arch rivals when the pressure was on and were unlucky conceding a last minute goal, also scholes had a perfectly legit goal disallowed which could have put us through.

arsenal being favourites for anything is a bad sign. they constantly mess up in europe despite having a side that is bracketed as 'world class'. the treble was on last season and a very real possibility, had they beaten manu and chelsea they probably would have won it.

arsenal never beat utd last season, playing 4 times(drew 2 lost 2). they were a better side overall during the league but thats shows theres not much between the sides.