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Envious of the USA

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  • 11-07-2004 8:16pm
    #1
    Victor
    Registered Users Posts: 78,415 ✭✭✭✭


    I make they following comments from a position of genuinely not understanding the particular point of view and am looking to understand. From today's Sunday Business Post

    http://www.thepost.ie/web/Sitemap/1.9did-714783458-pageUrl--2FThe-Newspaper-2FSundays-Paper-2FComment-and-Analysis.asp
    Is Ireland hostile to US?

    ....

    "There has always been a resentment of America, and sometimes that resentment seems to come from envy. But George Bush has also seemed to confirm some of the worst perceptions people have of America - brashness, ignoring other opinions and so on.''

    ....
    Why is envy and jealousy trotted out as an retort when people have issues with American policy? Sometimes it is mentioned as "jealous of our freedoms". I'm not jealous.

    Incredulous. Disappointed. Dismayed. Sorrowed. Afraid. Indignant. Not jealous.

    I don't want 57 channels. I don't want a 6 litre car. I don't want shop 'til you drop. I don't want a gun. I don't want a six-bedroomed house. I don't want religious and political intolerence. I don't want a military / industrial complex. I don't want permanent war. I don't want. I don't desire. I don't need.

    I have freedom of speech. I have rights to a lawyer and due process. I can go where I want. I can do what I wish. I can work. I can marry. I can own property.

    How am I jealous?

    Is it just name calling, by another name.


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    #2
    Sparks
    Registered Users Posts: 40,038 ✭✭✭✭Sparks


    Originally posted by Victor
    I don't want a gun.
    *coughs politely*
    I think you mean "I don't want any damn idiot, with no training whatsoever, to be able to buy any kind of firearm over the counter, without any kind of checks or balances".
    See, you're allowed have firearms here. It's just that the local superintendent has to be shown that you have a good reason for wanting one, that you won't be a danger to the public safety or the peace if you have one, and that you're legally allowed apply for one (ie, be over 18, have no criminal record and so on).
    Small point, I know, but some of us actually do want firearms - after all, it's hard to win a gold medal in a target shooting event in the Olympic Games if you're not allowed own a firearm...


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    #3
    Sand
    Registered Users Posts: 12,580 ✭✭✭✭Sand


    Why is envy and jealousy trotted out as an retort when people have issues with American policy? Sometimes it is mentioned as "jealous of our freedoms". I'm not jealous.

    Probably to wind you up. They know it gets under your skin to dismiss your beliefs as jealousy. And a lot of people criticise their culture and "way of life". So its easy for them to make the mistake that deep seated envy might be behind it - its not like Americans spend all year moaning about the Spaniards and their culture and way of life being so decadent.


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    #4
    Victor
    Registered Users Posts: 78,415 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    Originally posted by Sand
    its not like Americans spend all year moaning about the Spaniards
    But this has nothing to do with Mexico.


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    #5
    bonkey
    Registered Users Posts: 15,443 ✭✭✭✭bonkey


    Originally posted by Victor
    Why is envy and jealousy trotted out as an retort when people have issues with American policy?

    Because both policians and media in general seem to only be able to communicate with the public in polar terms.

    To criticise anything American means one of two things, or a blend of both. Either the critic is wrong, or the policy being criticised is wrong.

    When dealing with an x-minute speech, or an x-inch column, there is no time to get into the finer points of "well, we're not actually perfect in that regard, but the criticism isn't entirely perfect either". So instead we get simplifications. Either its wrong, or its right.

    Now, given that much of the criticism can't be shown to be categorically wrong, what do we get instead? One of two things :

    1) Transferrence : "Well, Europe isn't any better". Well whoop-dee-fscking-do, I criticise them too, but when it comes to a media-article, I don't get a chance to point that out. I recognise that the US is (to borrow) our "Last, Best Hope for mankind" - at least at present - but my concern is that it is simply not good enough. Apparently, I should ignore this concern and focus on my belief in the Last Best Hope, and shower praise on them unquestioningly.

    2) Deflection from the issue being criticised : lets not discuss at all whether or not there is something wrong here, or whether or not some of the criticism from some of the critics is valid. Lets just lump them all into the same boat, and call it jealousy, begrudgery, or hate depending on just how much we care about offending the sensibilties of those we are dismissing in this way.

    It would be nice to believe that when it comes to a more lengthy form of media - say a book - that we would move away from this. Unfortunatley, most books - especially the popular ones - dealing with the various subjects are the ones written by those who have made their names in the other media....so we predominantly get more of the same.

    Its funny how a European is critical because they are jealous of the US having "stolen" something (power) which ceased to exist long before they (the European) were born and therefore have no recollection of.

    An American, on the other hand is critical because they are of the wrong party, or just plain unpatriotic.

    And if you're neither...its because you hate freedom. It doesn't matter where you're from, what your beliefs are, or what grounds your criticism is based on. You hate freedom.

    David Corn (one of those one-sided people I mentioned above), I think it was, once wrote an excellent article on US political parties which someone linked to here. It was, IIRC, entitled "I hate your politics", in which he offered scathing descriptions of three major US political groupings - Democratic, Republican and Liberal. At the end of it, he said something like "I bet you read the two you aren't part of, smiled, and said 'right on', but when you read your own, you said 'this guy doesnt know squat'".

    That     is why criticism is jealousy, hate, or any of those things. Its because what you believe is right, dammit, and criticism means either that you may not be right, dammit, or that the critic is wrong. Guess which is the easier line to take...

    jc


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    #6
    Hobbes
    Registered Users Posts: 21,264 ✭✭✭✭Hobbes


    Its very kettle calling pot.

    I also like the fact that if you critize anything it is because you are jealous of the US? o_O

    Point of Fact: Bush has fuk'ed the US. He has destabilised the world and its going to take generations to undo the damage he has done.


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    #7
    Dancing duck
    Closed Accounts Posts: 69 ✭✭Dancing duck


    I suppose if you were misinformed, or an American, you'd think that everyone would like to be a part of the big ocean that is 51 states. There you too can be just another fish in the sea with more anonymity and, 'do I really exist in this the closest thing to the text book free-market economy', than anywhere else in the world (perhaps excluding North Korea and it's number by number policy).

    They must just assume we people are power-hungry and living in America somehow caters to that craving just because it is 'the' power, and 'the' power so concerned with corrupting foreign policies that it forgets its education system is probably the worst of the western world.

    Maybe in a different choice of words, people (like journalists :eek: ) enjoy dismissing and addressing on the grandest of scales. It's much easier and more convincing to the boss if they can say with this 'confidence' that we're all jealous of the North American suburbia portrayed soooo wonderfully on the box, than to say we have consciences and they lead us to disagree with the Bush in charge.

    Oh wait, what was my point again?


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    #8
    bonkey
    Registered Users Posts: 15,443 ✭✭✭✭bonkey


    Originally posted by Dancing duck
    I suppose if you were misinformed, or an American, you'd think that everyone would like to be a part of the big ocean that is 51 states.

    OK. I'll bite. Which is your 51st State?

    jc


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    #9
    Hobbes
    Registered Users Posts: 21,264 ✭✭✭✭Hobbes


    Originally posted by bonkey
    OK. I'll bite. Which is your 51st State?

    jc


    Heh..
    By New model Army
    Look out of your windows, watch the skies
    Read all the instructions with bright blue eyes
    Were W.A.S.P.s, proud American sons
    We know how to clean our teeth and how to strip down a gun
    We're the 51st state of America

    Our star-spangled Union Jack flutters so proud
    Over the dancing heads of the merry patriotic crowd
    Tip your hat to the Yankee conqueror
    We've got no reds under the bed with guns under our pillows
    We're the 51st state of America

    Here in the land of opportunity
    Watch US revel in our liberty
    You can say what you like
    But it doesn't change anything
    'Cos the corridors of power
    Are an ocean away
    We're the 51st state of America


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