Can you restrict residency based on Irish-language fluency?

I'm surprised at the number of people who have voted "yes" in this poll, as someone who has immigrated to ireland this strikes a strongly racist tone in my view.

People these days are too quick to jump to the racist or discrimination aspect. Its funny, but this idea is in an area thats perfect for such a venture, when it wouldn't work in any other part of Ireland. It has very little chance of expanding to other areas of Ireland, and it favours those who can speak our National Language fluently.

I voted Yes, because I don't see anything wrong with it. Just as I don't see anything wrong with Women Hairdressers that have signs outside that say "no men allowed".

Equality is here, and for the most part its followed, but I don't want to see people turning into equality Nazi's. This place harms no-one and all you need to do is learn Irish fluently to avail of the offer. Give yourself 6 months or proper dedicated study and you would have no problem passing the standards they have set. Not as hard as changing your sex, nationality or skin colour is it?

Sand

I'm surprised at the number of people who have voted "yes" in this poll, as someone who has immigrated to ireland this strikes a strongly racist tone in my view.

Total lack of surprise on my part.

And its not racist, its bigoted, narrow minded, xenophobic, discriminatory and pathetic but its not racist. Its a demand that buyers be fluent in Irish, not that they be Irish - and given pathetic levels of fluency in the Irish population the two are not natural substitutes.

it favours those who can speak our National Language fluently.

Just as I don't see anything wrong with Women Hairdressers that have signs outside that say "no men allowed".

Whats next? Only sell appartments to people who can list every player on the pitch of the 1929 All Ireland football final to protect our sporting cultural history from the enroaching influence of perfidious albions "soccer"?

Hasnt Wicklow county council passed legislation that only grants planning permisson to those who can demonstrate a historical link - family etc - to an area?

This is setting a bad precedent, its saying discrimination is okay here on the basis of language. Is discrimination then okay on the basis of religion? The catholic ethos of an area may need to be protected after all - especially in these days of facile faith.

Probably ( Id have thought anti-discrimination law would prevent witholding goods or services on cultural grounds but hey, lawyers wrote it didnt they? ) within their rights to do so and theyre only harming themselves in the long run, but as Mem said when does this discrimination stop being positive and start being objectionable?

simu

If we want Irish and the thousands of other minority languages in the world to survive as community languages, we need to have places where they are spoken in public. If, in Ireland, this means discriminating against non-Irish speakers, it's tough luck to them. The Gaeltachtaí only take up a tiny percentage of the country's land - no Irish person is going to end up on the streets because of this sort of legislation. As an Irish speaker, however, I'm all too familiar with English speakers insiting my language is a waste of time or obsolete and forcing their language upon me (hey - I don't mind speaking English but I hate it in the Gaeltachtaí when you have a huge group of people speaking Irish, one English speaker comes in and expects everyone to change to English even though that English speaker may have been living in the area for ages and had ample opportunites to pick up irish).

My main problem with the legislation, as I already stated, is that I'm not sure testing will be enough - somebody being able to pass a test doesn't guarantee that they are willing to speak the language.

Sometimes you have to impose restrictions to keep things of cultural worth going in today's world - see the French laws pertaining to maintaining their "spécificité francaise". (Even though, ironically, the French have a pretty bad record for granting rights to speakers of minority languages within france).

spongebob

Sand wrote:

And its not racist,

Correct. I know Poles, French , English, Germans, Greeks and Japanese people who would pass the test in the morning. They are all fluent in Irish .

its bigoted, narrow minded, xenophobic, discriminatory and pathetic

None of the above. It is merely the belated projection of an age old cultural difference into planning law. Otherwise we will all end up sounding and thinking like Americans because we know no different . What an awful prospect. !

Its a demand that buyers be fluent in Irish, not that they be Irish - and given pathetic levels of fluency in the Irish population the two are not natural substitutes.

All the occupiers as it happens. Even you could qualify Sand Get busy.

M

spongebob

This planning application linked below is currently meandering through An Bord Pleanala.

The developer is objecting to the Irish Language clause , its in Spiddal too .

http://www.galwaycoco.ie/planning/scans/672304.pdf

We'll hear chapter and verse from the Bord Pleanála quite soon I should think.

M

ishmael whale

This thing hasn’t gone away. I suppose it could be said that such a requirement might have a role in a genuine minority language area. But when so little of the official Gaeltacht is actually Irish speaking inevitably the whole thing becomes an ugly mess. Its just the usual recipe of bureaucratic nonsense dovetailing with frenzied attempts to foist an unloved language on the people at large that is the basis of Irish language policy.


http://www.unison.ie/irish_independent/stories.php3?ca=9&si=1296850&issue_id=11760
NOT one of the 170 families with school-going children in a designated Gaeltacht area has managed to satisfy inspectors of the Department of the Gaeltacht that it is Irish-speaking. The statistic emerged yesterday amid the continuing controversy over new planning regulations for Gaeltacht areas in Co Galway.

Under Galway's County Development Plan, which has as one of its aims the protection of the linguistic and cultural heritage of Gaeltacht areas, developers must sign a legal agreement restricting the use of new housing and apartment developments to people who are fluent in the Irish language. Galway County Council planners duly applied this restriction on a proposed development of apartments and retail units planned for the village of Claregalway by local businessman Michael Hughes. Mr Hughes subsequently appealed the restriction to an Bord Pleanala.

In a decision published yesterday, the Bord ruled that the restriction should be omitted. In her report, the Bord Pleanala inspector described the condition as "excessively punitive".

The decision was welcomed by Connemara-based language activist Donncha O hEallaithe, who noted that any study of the Census returns for the Claregalway area could only conclude that Claregalway was not Irish-speaking by any stretch of the imagination.

Mr O hEallaithe said: "The latest figures from the Department of the Gaeltacht reveal that there is not one family out of the 170 families with school-going children in the Claregalway area which managed to satisfy the department officials that it was Irish-speaking. Why go on with the charade that Claregalway is in the Gaeltacht?

"According to the Census returns, there is a greater proportion of people in Oranmore (15pc) who claim to be either daily or weekly speakers of Irish than in Claregalway (11pc). Oranmore is not in the Gaeltacht, but Claregalway is." While Claregalway was designated as within the official Gaeltacht, Mr O hEallaithe said the report of the Inspector of an Bord Pleanala stated that Claregalway displayed none of the characteristics of the stronger Irish-speaking communities and added that the area lacked "any definable entity as a Gaeltacht area".

The Irish language requirement for developments in Gaeltacht areas in Co Galway will come under further scrutiny today when the first ever appeal hearing to be held by an Bord Pleanala in Irish opens in Furbo. The language condition has been imposed on a proposed scheme of 17 houses to be built in Spiddal by Hyberg Development Ltd. The developers are appealing on the grounds that the restriction is "unreasonable" because no such restriction was attached to the previous outline planning permission for the site.

The first legal agreement with a developer, incorporating the new restriction, was signed by the local authority in respect of a development at Spiddal earlier this year. But it applied to only 18 of 29 apartments constructed in the village. Now local people are to ask an Bord Pleanala to ensure that the "Irish-only" stipulation applies to 100pc of the housing development.

Tuars

I think the whole idea of giving preferential treatment to Gaeltacht communities as a means of preserving the Irish language should be reconsidered.

It has led to a ghettoisation of the language and discriminates against Irish speakers outside the Gaeltacht. For example, why does the deontas for speaking Irish only apply to children in the Gaeltacht?

I think that many Gaeltacht communities are taking advantage of the fact that they were fortunate enough to be designated with Gaeltacht status to get as much out of the state as possible.

I think the motivation for the Irish clause in the planning permission has more to do with locals trying to get cheaper houses for themselves than trying to promote the Irish language.

I don't believe that the promotion of the Irish language should be based on geography. Sure, the Gaeltacht areas have real economic problems to be addressed but these should be addressed independently of language promotion. Indeed the fact that Gaeltacht areas have such economic problems probably mitigates against their potential to be torch bearers for the language.

monument

sceptre wrote:

It's Mayo taking the hammering at 36%-odd. Of course the default language in Ring is English (or at least it appeared to be last time I was there, same with Ballyvourney). These days, we're largely measuring ability and willingness.

There's a Gaeltacht in Mayo? Really? Oh, sorry, there is a " ""Gaeltacht"" " in Mayo. NOD, NOD. WINK, WINK.

TetsuoHashimoto

:eek: typical jackeen mentality

jaaay zuuus - how'z a going dubla

need ta have a gaff down da country so i can take me speeed n LSD and slag da native Irish-speakin culchies




PS
there may be a touch of sarcasm in my posts

spongebob

The skanks are scared of the natives

M

ishmael whale

TetsuoHashimoto wrote:

need ta have a gaff down da country so i can take me speeed n LSD and slag da native Irish-speakin culchies

That’s assuming they could find some Irish speakers when they got there.

Interestingly, according to the census there’s 73,131 people in Dublin who claim to use Irish on a daily basis, as against 46,332 making a similar claim in the West.

(Table 30 http://www.cso.ie/census/vol11_index.htm)

Essey

What a wonderful and patriotic way in which to discriminate. That is of course if the average Ethiopian refugee didnt study Gaelige in thier tribal hut if so we are all up the creek! Hint - after having to studing Irish for 12 something odd wasteful years its about as usful as learning how to dance w/out moving your arms - heck if they made you learn how to fiddle in order to buy a house it would be more useful.

Mad Cyril

Tuars wrote:

I think the whole idea of giving preferential treatment to Gaeltacht communities as a means of preserving the Irish language should be reconsidered.

It has led to a ghettoisation of the language and discriminates against Irish speakers outside the Gaeltacht. For example, why does the deontas for speaking Irish only apply to children in the Gaeltacht?

I think that many Gaeltacht communities are taking advantage of the fact that they were fortunate enough to be designated with Gaeltacht status to get as much out of the state as possible.

I think the motivation for the Irish clause in the planning permission has more to do with locals trying to get cheaper houses for themselves than trying to promote the Irish language.

I don't believe that the promotion of the Irish language should be based on geography. Sure, the Gaeltacht areas have real economic problems to be addressed but these should be addressed independently of language promotion. Indeed the fact that Gaeltacht areas have such economic problems probably mitigates against their potential to be torch bearers for the language.

Excellent post. If local authorities are really serious about the promotion of the Irish language they should concentrate on progressive initiatives which are much broader then the preservation of small Irish speaking enclaves.

What a wonderful and patriotic way in which to discriminate.

So they're discriminating against people who choose not to learn and use the Irish language. Its hardly an issue to cry about. This issue is not a discrimination against sex, religion or disbilities. This is a move against people who don't speak the National Language, in a small area.

Hint - after having to studing Irish for 12 something odd wasteful years its about as usful as learning how to dance w/out moving your arms - heck if they made you learn how to fiddle in order to buy a house it would be more useful.

I learnt History and geography in school also, and I doubt I've used either in any useful way. Same with metalworking, mechanical drawing, or the majority of biology subjects. Perhaps you'd be interested in dropping those subjects so that we can learn the fiddle also?

The Irish language is our national language. It should be there as an option in all state sponsored schools. If you don't want to learn irish, fine. Just don't go expecting to receive the benefits of having the language.

That is of course if the average Ethiopian refugee didnt study Gaelige in thier tribal hut if so we are all up the creek!

What has this got to do with anything? I can't see why an Ethopian refugee would want to live in this area, or move away from the cities. besides, foreigners are more likely to learn the language than us Irish people.

I'm not going to acclaim the Gaelteacht, or the current Government policy towards them. However, this is the case of a small area having a restriction based on a language. This has no likelyhood of spreading to other parts of the country. Its just scaremongering on peoples part to complain about this, or rather complaining because they don't have the ability/desire to learn the language.

spongebob

Deleted User wrote:

I'm not going to acclaim the Gaelteacht, or the current Government policy towards them. However, this is the case of a small area having a restriction based on a language. This has no likelyhood of spreading to other parts of the country. Its just scaremongering on peoples part to complain about this, or rather complaining because they don't have the ability/desire to learn the language.

And that is all it is Klaz, well observed.

The 'official' Gaeltacht in the 1950s act is a good chunk of Cork/Kerry/Galway/Mayo/Donegal and still legally applies . The 'real' gaeltacht is probably the area where over 50% of kids speak Irish now , thats a bit of Galway/Kerry/Donegal and I am not even too sure about Kerry. Thats where the language restrictions are relevant and this is a small area .

The Bord Pleanála last month chucked out an Irish language clause imposed in Claregalway which is in the official 1950s Gaeltacht but where very few speak Irish, mostly over 60's . The Bord looked at the kids who can speak Irish as a measure. It would have been a stable door closure exercise.

M

ishmael whale

Deleted User wrote:

Its just scaremongering on peoples part to complain about this, or rather complaining because they don't have the ability/desire to learn the language.

The particular item on the table is limited, and as I've said earlier in this thread, largely of interest to people living in Galway.

However, it is simply a fact that Irish language policy features an ugly mixture of activist zealotry and Kafkaesque officialdom. That's why so many of us, undoubtedly a mixture of people without a language aptitude and people without a desire to learn the language, get exercised enough to watch developments like this to see if something else is being foisted on us.

Nothing wrong with reasonable measures to keep the language alive. But we've had enough of efforts to beat us into speaking Irish, when we'd frankly rather learn how to play the trombone. (or even learn how to spell trombone - I've a feeling that's not right.)

simu

Just remember that the language != Government's attempts to preserve the language, attempts that have been pretty pathetic and half-hearted.

Just remember that the language != Government's attempts to preserve the language, attempts that have been pretty pathetic and half-hearted.

Its more the irish peoples pathetic attempts at preserving it. It doesn't help the Government that the Irish people themselves move for it to be called a dead language.

However, it is simply a fact that Irish language policy features an ugly mixture of activist zealotry and Kafkaesque officialdom. That's why so many of us, undoubtedly a mixture of people without a language aptitude and people without a desire to learn the language, get exercised enough to watch developments like this to see if something else is being foisted on us.

I don't have the ability to learn to fly. My hands shake. It makes sense that I not be alllowed to fly a plane. i'd kill everyone on board.

BUT. You Can learn irish. And you can stay in this area if you speak the language. Its not discriminatory, as more selective. You still have the choice to learn the language, since anyone can learn a language. (varying degrees of difficulty involved)

Nothing wrong with reasonable measures to keep the language alive. But we've had enough of efforts to beat us into speaking Irish, when we'd frankly rather learn how to play the trombone. (or even learn how to spell trombone - I've a feeling that's not right.)

Funny. I've never had any problems with how they approached Irish in Schools. It was never Beat into me. I actually liked speaking the language. My problem was Geography. It was boring, and made no sense. I couldn't figure out the need to be able to read off a map in the middle of nowhere.

But i never told anyone to get rid of geography. Go Figure.

ishmael whale

Deleted User wrote:

You Can learn irish.

I dare say some people do simply find learning Irish difficult. Most probably could if they decided to make the effort. The question is relating effort to the result. Many of us honestly see no personal cultural benefit in learning the language. You can blame it on the way the revival policy has been followed, whatever, but that's how we feel.

It leaves us with the view that if we'd invested the same effort into teaching science as we did to reviving Irish we'd be colonising Mars.

Deleted User wrote:

But i never told anyone to get rid of geography. Go Figure.

I think you might find it has something to do with never needing geography to gain admission to NUI colleges, not needing geography to join the Garda, not needing to be proficient in geography to be allowed to be a school teacher of other subjects, not needing every act of parliament to be translated into terminology understood only by geographers, not providing grants to areas of the country where the locals pretend to be geographers, not providing a large subsidy to a geography TV channel which is meant to broadcast geography, but actually just employs geographers to broadcast Westerns etc etc. And I don't think geography has ever produced a work with as many rich cultural associations as Peig.

No-one has a problem with Irish being a school subject. Its the compulsion element that we have a problem with. Pretending that compulsion wasn't a feature, and that Irish was just like any school subject, is evading the issue. Its legacy is that many people get exercised at any suggestion of a compulsory Irish requirement - even one that simply suggests that a fair portion of people living in Gaeltachts should speak Irish (which is, in reality, a novel requirement).

I dare say some people do simply find learning Irish difficult. Most probably could if they decided to make the effort. The question is relating effort to the result. Many of us honestly see no cultural benefit in learning the language. You can blame it on the way the revival policy has been followed, whatever, but that's how we feel.

wait a sec. you don't see any cultural benefit from learning the Irish language....? Surely you mean practical benefit, since all your comments point that way?

It leaves us with the view that if we'd invested the same effort into teaching science as we did to reviving Irish we'd be colonising Mars.

hardly, since other subjects are compulsary, some form of science being one of them, and your prediction hasn't occured.

I think you might find it has something to do with never needing geography to gain admission to NUI colleges, not needing geography to join the Garda, not needing to be proficient in geography to be allowed to be a school teacher of other subjects, not needing every act of parliament to be translated into terminology understood only by geographers, not providing grants to areas of the country where the locals pretend to be geographers, not providing a large subsidy to a geography TV channel which is meant to broadcast geography, but actually just employs geographers to broadcast Westerns etc etc. And I don't think geography has ever produced a work with as many rich cultural associations as Peig.

Re, the jobs, you need the language, a basic knowledge of it, to gain entry to those jobs. Which makes sense since you're going to be representing your country in those roles. Makes perfect sense to me.

I'm afraid I just don't agree with you. Its our national language. For those that wish to enter those areas, have 14 grinds to learn basic skills in the language isn't much to ask, when they're entering secure jobs.

No-one has a problem with Irish being a school subject. Its the compulsion element that we have a problem with.

I understand that. What I don't understand is why you're not complaining about every other subject that is compulsary... but then I haven't checked your other posts, perhaps you have.

ishmael whale

Deleted User wrote:

wait a sec. you don't see any cultural benefit from learning the Irish language....? Surely you mean practical benefit, since all your comments point that way?.

No, I mean cultural. Others have said practical and I would agree its hard to see a practical benefit too. What I mean is I don't see the language as enhancing my cultural life. And if I had to choose between classes in Irish and classes in how to play the trombone, the trombone would win hands down.

Deleted User wrote:

hardly, since other subjects are compulsary, some form of science being one of them, and your prediction hasn't occured.

I think you're still evading. I don't recall any science subject being compulsory in school. It was simply a requirement for entry to certain courses where it was deemed relevant such as engineering. Part of the problem is addressing this agenda is the inability of language supporters to acknowledge and start from where we are.

Deleted User wrote:

Re, the jobs, you need the language, a basic knowledge of it, to gain entry to those jobs. Which makes sense since you're going to be representing your country in those roles. Makes perfect sense to me.

You don't need Irish to teach French to english speakers. It makes no sense to me at all. To me such requirements reek of the aura of denial that surrounds the Irish language agenda. We have to pretend that Irish speaking is a necessary requirement, even if you seem to implicitly accept that the level required is less than would be required to actually conduct business in the language. Which leaves us essentially requiring Gardai to meet a cultural norm, for no obvious reason. Maybe we should insist that all Gardai should be able to spot a cracking Riesling.

Deleted User wrote:

Its our national language.

Formally it is. But in reality its status is contested.

Deleted User wrote:

I understand that. What I don't understand is why you're not complaining about every other subject that is compulsary... but then I haven't checked your other posts, perhaps you have.

Again, you are being disingenuous. No other subject is or was compulsory in the same sense or for the same reason. Knowledge of English is relevant for admission to NUI Colleges because that's the language the courses will be taught in. Proficiency in Maths is regarded as a measure of simple competence. But Irish was required to satisfy a political agenda.

ishmael whale

Just as a matter of interest, the Law Society have produced a report where they essentially say a focussed planning measure aimed at protecting the Irish language does not present any legal problems. However, giving preferential planning treatment to relatives of local residents is not legally sound.

http://www.unison.ie/irish_independent/stories.php3?ca=9&si=1358500&issue_id=12211
COUNTY Councils who discriminate in favour of family members when considering planning applications for one-off rural housing are breaking the law, the Law Society has warned. In a new report, Discriminatory Planning Conditions: the Case for Reform, the society has identified five categories who frequently benefit from positive discrimination when planning applications are being considered.
….. it also found that discrimination in favour of agricultural workers and Irish speakers is permissible in certain circumstances. …. if the policy of the local authority is to favour "local people" when it comes to development in open countryside, being either a local resident or local employee would qualify an applicant as a local person. It concluded that "bloodline conditions" in the planning process discriminate between relatives and non-relatives of local and so contravenes the constitution, the European Convention of Human Rights and EU law.
The Law Society has also warned that planning authorities and An Bord Pleanala are in contravention of EU law if they discriminate between residents and non-residents in order to restrict housing to people with a local connection. In order to comply with the Constitution and EU law, restrictions should be on the basis that applicants must either be local residents or local employees, with the applicants having the option of satisfying one of the two conditions. …. The reports highlights a number of planning authorities. In Clare, for example, "local rural persons" are favoured under the development plan to the extent that people who have "never lived in nor visited an area" could get planning permission because of a bloodline condition.
(The full report is at http://www.lawsociety.ie/newsite/documents/Law_reports/dpcreport.pdf)

mike65

Planning board rules on Cork, Kerry appeals

22 April 2005 14:34

An Bord Pleanála has given its clearest indication yet as to how it will apply the imposition of Irish language conditions to the granting of planning permission for new housing developments in Gaeltacht areas.

Dealing with two planning appeals in counties Galway and Kerry, it has decided that the number of houses to be reserved for Irish speakers will be linked directly to the percentage of people living in the area who already speak Irish.

In Furbo, Co Galway, the board stated that 60% of occupants in the development needed to be either fluent or have a command of the Irish language.


Granting planning permission, three apartments and six houses will need to be occupied by Irish speakers.

In Ballyferriter, Co Kerry, the board stated that 75% of occupants in the development needed to be either fluent or have a command of the Irish language, meaning 12 houses are specified for Irish speakers in the planning permission.

The board ruled in both cases that the restriction on occupancy should remain in place for 15 years

Imagine how this would work, its not the owner that must be fluent its the occupier. So presumably all the house owners would have to have a meeting with the Language Police and do a head count then if a property was vacant they can decide if it has to be occupied by an Irish language speaker or not!!!!!!

http://dynamic.rte.ie/av/2039893.smil right click save as...listen and laugh (or cry)

Mike.

[ Daithí ]

Sleipnir wrote:

The point is, if you can prevent people buying property based on what language they speak, why can't you prevent them buying a property because the buyer is a woman? Or gay?

You can learn a language. You can't really change your gender or sexuality.

ishmael whale

This is an interesting twist. The case involves a family claiming they want to move to the Gaeltacht as they are committed to the language, but they haven’t managed to pass the test. I doubt if that possibility featured in the original script.

http://www.unison.ie/irish_independent/stories.php3?ca=9&si=1481935&issue_id=13092
Family turned down for home because Irish not good enough

Thursday October 6th 2005
A FAMILY has been refused permission to buy their dream home in Connemara because their Irish is not good enough. The decision marks the first time anyone has been prohibited from occupying a new property in the Gaeltacht - or anywhere else in the country - because of provisions to protect the Irish language.
In a letter written by the mother of the family of four to Galway County Council, she stated: "I cannot understand how this criteria can override all others including our wish to live and integrate into the Gaeltacht."
"My husband needs to reside near his work and our desire is to improve our children's education."The family, whose children are attending a Gaelscoil, have angrily rejected their disqualification from buying the home and are appealing for the decision to be re-considered. They have described it as "unfair" and "discriminatory".
Under the Planning Act 2000, planning authorities have a statutory obligation to include among the objectives of county development plans "the promotion of the linguistic and cultural heritage of the Gaeltacht".
Earlier this year, the family - they have asked not to be identified - decided to move to Connemara and chose an apartment at a new development in Spiddal village. It was the first private development to be covered by the new provisions under the Galway Co Development Plan restricting occupancy of a specified number of units to Irish speakers only. Under the terms of its planning permission, 18 of the 29 apartments in the €10m scheme had to be occupied by Irish speakers. The remaining 11 were open to all-comers.
In order to qualify as a purchaser of their chosen property, the nominated head of the household was required to undertake an interview as Gaeilge to determine the household's fluency in Irish. The mother of the family - an Irish woman - had attended the Gaeltacht as a teenager and completed Leaving Cert Irish. Her husband, also an Irish citizen, was brought up in the North but never had the chance to learn Irish at school.
Currently living in another part of the West, she enrolled her two children in a Gaelscoil and had planned to live in the Gaeltacht during the summer in order to continue her family's exposure to the language prior to the start of the new school term. She underwent the 'Irish Language and Usage Verification' interview in June but was told in July that she had not been successful.
Documents released to TG4 under the Freedom of Information Act, reveal that the woman wrote to Galway County Council, calling into question the council's decision to "discriminate against families that have chosen to actively embrace the Irish language". She added: "We find your blunt disqualification unfair, discriminatory and, most importantly, counter-productive to the aims of the legislation."
A spokesman for Galway County Council said: "An applicant who fails the test can take it again and the Council would naturally be sympathetic to repeat applicants. However, there is a requirement to maintain a certain standard."

cal29

ishmael whale wrote:

This is an interesting twist. The case involves a family claiming they want to move to the Gaeltacht as they are committed to the language, but they haven’t managed to pass the test. I doubt if that possibility featured in the original script.

I don't see any problem in that they failed the test irrespective of how committed they are or claim to be to the Irish language they do not have the sufficent fluency to pass a test.

If they are committed then I am sure they will improve their fluency and pass the test at some time in the future.

If the rules were not strict they would be worthless then anyone could turn up and say Iam really committed to the language and forget all about it once they had purchased the property.

cal29

mike65 wrote:

Imagine how this would work, its not the owner that must be fluent its the occupier. So presumably all the house owners would have to have a meeting with the Language Police and do a head count then if a property was vacant they can decide if it has to be occupied by an Irish language speaker or not!!!!!!

http://dynamic.rte.ie/av/2039893.smil right click save as...listen and laugh (or cry)

Mike.

Obviously the occupier has to have fluency there would be no point in having the rule that just the owner has to have fluency in that case someone fluent in Irish living in dublin could buy the properties and rent them all out to non Irish speakers making the rule irrelevant.

If a house becomes vacant within the 15 year time scale then it will presumably be sold or leased under the exact same conditions that apply to the people currently buying the property (ie they have to pass a test)

It makes perfect sense to have such a rule otherwise the properties could be occuppied by non Irish speakers very quickly

Gleanndún

I'm trying to piece together what's going on here. I think I have an idea, but I'm not so sure about this, as I'm not too up on Irish law. Now, I haven't seen this mentioned at least recently in this particular thread, but from what I've gathered from reading the Boards, it is my understanding that to foster the Irish laguage, the government has set up a series of taxbreaks attainable by living in the Gaeltacht ares. This has then cause a large influx of immigration to the Gaeltacht areas by people seeking taxbreaks, the majority of whom do not speak Irish, nor do they care to learn, thereby directly counteracting and contradicting the legislations originaly intended purpose. Could it be that perhaps this new legislation restricting immigration to the Gaeltacht areas may have risen as an attempted means to conteract this effect, and prevent futher liguistic degredation of the area? It seems to me if this is the case, perhaps it would be easier and much more effective to give the taxbreaks based directly on the family's proficiency in the Irish language, and perhaps for children in gaelscoileanna, rather than on where they choose to reside, which is completely unrelated to their liguistic propensities; but perhaps I have misunderstood the situation, in which case this proposal may not hold.

Nuttzz

Making areas irish only, making irish a working eu langauge, why bother? The irish langauge is dead, build a bridge and get over it....

azi

ReefBreak wrote:

I've pasted the article from one of the papers below. I think other papers have also reported it. I'm pretty sure this is against the most basic EU laws that permit the free movement of labour and capital. Perhaps another example of the over-zealous Gaelic Gestapo?

In breach of the above, plus EU Human Rights directive. Also unconstitutional as well as possibly a criminal offence.

Just the usual County Council gumbeen hogwash.

azi.