Norn Ire - Why Not Let 'em At Each Other?

Peter C

The Fact is here is

The Parades commission said that the Orange Order supporters should not be allowed to travel up this majority nationalist road however as usual the Sectarian police force of the RUC/PSNI have shown the world nothing has changed and the 6 counties are run by Sectarians in.

Well Irish04,
The fact is that SF/IRA have intimidated the the nationalist people not to join the PSNI. SF wont even join the police board. They would rather use thier own brand of jungle justice to sort out problems in their own areas.


Peter C, You are quite a sad individual. All your "Contributions" to this thread have been childish and non-sensical. You base your argument in your last post on what is shown on the front of a newspaper making you incrediby naive or incredibly stupid, you choose. You also Slate the nationalist community and say "25 PSNI were injured by these SF/IRA scum." I did not see any Volunteers from the IRA out nor did i see any members of Sinn Féin causing trouble. In fact, the Oppisite happened. The only Gunmen on show last night were the armed, sectarian police force and British Army along with their counterparts in the UFF/UDA which put on what they described as a show of strength. I saw no Oglaigh ná hÉireann show of strength. what i did see however was the most Senior North Belfast Sinn Féin man try to calm the crowd and prevent violence.

Well again Irish04,
Typical guff from you lot, seeing the world through your green tinted glasses. If you my statement, i did not say they were members of SF/IRA. Maybe you can me who caused the injuries to the PSNI, supporters of the SDLP or the OO? I rest my case. And its about time Gerry Kelly done that, only pity the scum did not listen to him.

Quatre Mains

Originally posted by Irish04


I did not see any Volunteers from the IRA out nor did i see any members of Sinn Féin causing trouble.

...I would also like to ask the question, Why do we never see violence at Volunteer commemoration marches? Well the simple answer is these marches are not deliberatly planned to run through unionist or loyalist areas.

are you tring to be Gerry Adams or something? Your post paints a whiter-than-white picture of SF and the IRA, and you try to take the moral high ground slagging off the PSNI, loyalists and just about everyone but SF and the IRA... Your immature attitude to the british solidiers getting the ****e bet out of them the other night shows your true colours tho.
The sooner pig-headed 'nationalists' like yourself who turn a blind eye to the IRA beatings and drug dealing start accepting some blame for the general tension in NI, the sooner loyalists will do likewise. BOTH sides have a lot to answer for.

Mighty_Mouse

The fact is that SF/IRA have intimidated the the nationalist people not to join the PSNI. SF wont even join the police board. They would rather use thier own brand of jungle justice to sort out problems in their own areas

And you think yesterday encourages catholics to join? SF have not intimidated anybody but they do hold a lot of sway with their communities and when they dont endorse something, republicans trust its the right decision.

Now outside policing.... was it right or wrong for the PSNI/RUC to ignore the parades commission?

Mighty_Mouse

BOTH sides have a lot to answer for.

Who said different? Lets not get into 800 years stuff though> Answer this: who was responsible/who caused the situation yesterday?

Republicans or The PSNI/Orangemen/loyalists etc

Again, remember republicans have respected the decisions of the parades commission.

Batbat

The point of the march is pretty simple. In the case of the loyalist marches, remind them that they're living in a protestant state for a protestant people.

So if they dont march they will forget?, is it worth all the hassle, still seems lame marching around, at least paddys day is a bit of fun

I dont know what all the fuss is about every year

Civilian_Target

To be honest, I think the sadness is in the fact that the nationalist communities care about the fact that a couple of guys in bowler hats with drums walk down their street. Are they so narrow-minded that they can't tolerate it?

Theres a huge orange march in Rossnowlagh every year, a part of Donegal that's occupied by over 80% catholics. It's got the most festive, relaxed party atmosphere, it's really like St. Paddys Day. A couple of Gardai watch the march go down the main street, and then everyone goes to a field, has some burgers and tea (supplied free by the orange order) and just generally have a good time. In fact, there's a huge local attendance, it's very well received by everyone.

The way I see it, if the thugs of the north are going to be so intolerant, we should gather them all in one place and let them at each other. At least there'd be less of them for the rest of us to deal with.

Finally, never forget that Sinn Fein are the political wing of a terrorist organisation.

bonkey

Originally posted by Irish04
Peter C, You are quite a sad individual.

...and so on and so forth...

Irish04....I would heartily suggest that you refamiliarise yourself with the rules concerning attacking other posters.

jc

bonkey

Originally posted by brocklanders
The sooner pig-headed 'nationalists' like yourself ...

The same applies to you, brocklanders.

If personal attacks like this continue in this thread, people will start getting banned.

jc

Batbat

The same applies to you, brocklanders.

brocklanders?

lynchie

Originally posted by Johnny_the_fox
for the record your wrong... in April -> Celtic had to pay Kilmarnock for damage to seating done by Celtic supporters during the 1-0 win....

For the record, you are wrong. What the 'Daily Ranger' forgot to mention in their article that the seats were broken not due to violence but because of fans jumping up and down on them after winning the match to claim the SPL title. I was at the match and in the section of the stand that had seats broken. It was nothing more than fans jumping up and down on them.

Sleepy

Would anyone else at this stage feel the British Army would be completely justified in policing these marches with a shoot to kill policy? I know I certainly would. If a dog bites, you punish it.

This childish nonsense has gone on for far too long in the north and I for one would be of the opinion that anyone that defies the parades commision deserves a bullet, ditto those that take it upon themselves to "defend" their areas from a few silly old fools banging drums.

Mighty_Mouse

Would anyone else at this stage feel the British Army would be completely justified in policing these marches with a shoot to kill policy? I know I certainly would. If a dog bites, you punish it.

Yea, why hasnt anyone thought of that?? Do you even take yourself seriously or do you just get a kick out of constantly baiting people?

marcowil

Just to make something clear from the beginning of my reply....
I do not watch or participate in Parades in Northern Ireland but I feel that people should have a right to march if that is their expression of celebrating their culture but they must respect those who do not agree with them and vice-versa.

I feel that one fact is being overlooked here. The parades commission ruling (direct quotation) ONLY covers "all persons taking part in the parade by Grand Orange Lodge of Ireland LOL 633 on Monday 12 July 2004"

It does not cover anyone who wants to watch or support the march who isn't a member of LOL 633.

From what I saw on TV and read in the press both the Orange Order and the PSNI adhered to the Parades Commission ruling - it was the supporters returning to their homes that seemed to give the Nationalist side cause for protest. That said, I am sure that not everyone who was supporting the march was from that area, just as not everyone protesting on the other side was from the Nationalist area. It is common knowledge that both sides get support from outside on occasions like this.

The ruling states (Part 17)

"The Commission sees this parade as a significant test of the loyalist and unionist community to adhere to the law and deliver a peaceful and lawful procession on the day. In particular it expects the community to ensure that no grouping of followers assembles in a way that would suggest to Ardoyne residents that a second un-notified parade might be taking place. The further restrictions on this parade are also intended to reassure residents close to this main thoroughfare, that the Commission takes their concerns seriously too. The Commission looks to community and political leaders on the nationalist side to ensure that only a peaceful and lawful protest takes place in the interface area. The violence associated with protests in this area make it more difficult for the Commission to challenge any bad behaviour in the parade"

This march was, as stated, along a main thoroughfare, used by both sides of the community and not through a perceived "nationalist" area.

As far as i know, no bad behaviour has been reported from the members of the parade itself (feel free to correct me if that is wrong). I accept that the number of supporters returning home may have been interpreted as a "second un-notified parade" but again, the parades Commission could only make a recommendation here - they have no jurisdiction over "supporters".

This in itself however is no reason for violence and the fact that violence erupted only gives credence to the Orange Orders claim that it does not matter what they do because Nationalists are only interested in stopping marches (and with it Protestant celebration of their culture) no matter what.

Community leaders on both sides should be berated for their lack of control and the only way forward that I can see is more dialogue. Politicians appearing on TV for a quick soundbite does nothing to help the process.

Raskolnikov

Originally posted by Mighty_Mouse
The only way we can move forward in Northern Ireland is by addressing simple questions like why did the PSNI/RUC overule the decision of the Parades Commission?

With rulings like that can you blame Nationalists for being apprehensive about joining the PSNI.

thejollyrodger

well all i can say is thank god we dont have that rabble down here (all pariteis up north concerned)

Originally posted by marcowil

It does not cover anyone who wants to watch or support the march who isn't a member of LOL 633.

From what I saw on TV and read in the press both the Orange Order and the PSNI adhered to the Parades Commission ruling - it was the supporters returning to their homes that seemed to give the Nationalist side cause for protest. That said, I am sure that not everyone who was supporting the march was from that area, just as not everyone protesting on the other side was from the Nationalist area. It is common knowledge that both sides get support from outside on occasions like this.

Yes somebody was using their head.
They decided to hold an informal unofficial march back home and all wearing a sash were invited on this informal unofficial orange march home.

Who ever thought of that knew the parades commission ruling well and knew how to circumvent it.
After all a walk home wasn't breaking the law just the spirit of it.

Now no joking, but I wonder was that the shortest route home for most of those guys?
I'll bet it wasn't.
The commission will have to take note

Mighty_Mouse

Those fecking republicans just won't join the the police board!

This in itself however is no reason for violence and the fact that violence erupted only gives credence to the Orange Orders claim that it does not matter what they do because Nationalists are only interested in stopping marches (and with it Protestant celebration of their culture) no matter what.

Have you actually took leave of your senses!!! How does the Orange Order and supporters marching through the the Ardoyne area convince protestants that nationalists are unreasonable!! Nationalists have respected the rulings of the commission to date. Remember its not nationalists stopping Oranangism celebration of Catholic slaughter. Its an independant commission!

Sinn Féin’s Gerry Kelly has claimed that he and other republicans prevented a potential repeat of the Bloody Sunday killings in the Ardoyne area of Belfast earlier this month.

Mr Kelly said that if he and his colleagues had not prevented local nationalists from attacking the British army, people might have been shot.

Republicans have been widely praised for attempting to restrain nationalist rioters after the PSNI allowed 500 loyalists to march through the Ardoyne area on July 12.

British military sources have revealed that soldiers were close to opening fire at one stage after being cornered by the rioters.

One soldier is said to have cocked his rifle during the clashes.

Sand

This childish nonsense has gone on for far too long in the north and I for one would be of the opinion that anyone that defies the parades commision deserves a bullet, ditto those that take it upon themselves to "defend" their areas from a few silly old fools banging drums.

Firm, but fair.

Maybe even a regretable necessity at this stage.

AngelofFire

Originally posted by Sleepy
Would anyone else at this stage feel the British Army would be completely justified in policing these marches with a shoot to kill policy? I know I certainly would. If a dog bites, you punish it.

Does bloody sunday come to mind?.

Having NI or any state for that matter run as a police state does not work and it was one of the contributing factors to the troubles.

Mighty_Mouse

Maybe even a regretable necessity at this stage.

You advocate shooting people dead! And describe it as necessary!!:eek: At least were all very clear on how coloured and extreme your opinions on the north are!

Cork

Violence up there was sold as the solution for years.

Even today, people are not taking stances aganist punishment beatings and rackereering.

Why is such criminality tolerated?

Northern Ireland has very little industry and it is kept going with 10 billion given at the kindness of the British taxpayer.

I have little regard for any political party up there (except the SDLP).

The Tribal card is played up there too often.

Ranting off about the four green fields or No surrender is not politics.

John Hume had vision. He was a statesman.

Constant stale mate is a dis service to an electorate. But it was that very same electorate who voted for extremists at both sides.

This not an inch or bullet mentality is pointless.

Tribal daft politics at its best.

AngelofFire

Originally posted by Cork

I have little regard for any political party up there (except the SDLP).

Surely the cross community Alliance party deserve regard for trying to end tribal politics in NI and obliterate secterian tensions,whilst concentrating on more practical social and economic issues.

AmenToThat

Originally posted by thejollyrodger

I think Celtic (and rangers) supporters are bigots and Celtic shirts should be banned from football match down south.

Talk about the pot calling the kettle black!
:rolleyes:

Bigot!

AmenToThat

Originally posted by Sleepy

This childish nonsense has gone on for far too long in the north and I for one would be of the opinion that anyone that defies the parades commision deserves a bullet, ditto those that take it upon themselves to "defend" their areas from a few silly old fools banging drums.

A few silly old fools banging drums..............
Tell me you are joking?

AngelofFire

Originally posted by Sleepy
Would anyone else at this stage feel the British Army would be completely justified in policing these marches with a shoot to kill policy? I know I certainly would. If a dog bites, you punish it.

I had a feeling this thread would become hijacked by the far right. I suppose you support the re introduction of internment aswell.With statements like that you are showing a gross ignorance to the situation in Northern Ireland over the past 30 years.

Futhermore this is coming from the poster who said that trade unions should be banned and that certain people should be exluded from voting.

Mighty_Mouse

But no no no.......its the republicans that are the irrational crazies!:rolleyes:

Does this not read as sarcasim?

monument

Originally posted by bertiebowl
Then a thought hit me - wouldn't it be better entertainment if we let the two mobs attack each other? And maybe if they get all that anger out of their system they might realise that they actually have to get on with each other (eventually).

....

Finally maybe the two mobs would eventually cop that the rest of the world really thinks they are a laughing stock.

Originally posted by Sleepy
Would anyone else at this stage feel the British Army would be completely justified in policing these marches with a shoot to kill policy? I know I certainly would. If a dog bites, you punish it.

This childish nonsense has gone on for far too long in the north and I for one would be of the opinion that anyone that defies the parades commision deserves a bullet, ditto those that take it upon themselves to "defend" their areas from a few silly old fools banging drums.

:rolleyes:

Talking about childish nonsense.

AngelofFire

Originally posted by Mighty_Mouse
But no no no.......its the republicans that are the irrational crazies!

As opposed to loyalist paramilitaries who shot the first person they saw just for wearing a GAA jersey or an Ireland shirt,or the hypocracy of british army who were involved in collussion with loyalist TERROIST groups,justifying their actions on the basis that it was helping to counter TERRORIST activities,what about internment of innocent nationalists without trial or the right to prove their innocence and general institutionalised abuse and denial of basic human rights by the british government during the troubles.

Whilst militant republicanism has caused a lot of problems up north it was not the sole cause of the problems up north nor the cause of the need for the Belfast Agreement.Other things must be taking into account like the whole social and political context of Northern Ireland from 1920 onwards.

Mighty_Mouse

This not an inch or bullet mentality is pointless.

Good Speech Cork! Dated circa 1990 perhaps?

Sand

You advocate shooting people dead! And describe it as necessary!! At least were all very clear on how coloured and extreme your opinions on the north are!

Yeah, I sound like a regular SF supporter dont I?

[GerryAdams]I dont want to get into the failed politics of condemnation over shooting dead people who break the parade commissons rulings, we just need to resolve the problems that are forcing the British Army to shoot people dead. And lets face it, after youve shot a few people youre taken a lot more seriously.[/GerryAdams]