Luas Fines

Raggamuffin

Made a mistake on the LUAS today...

I got a return ticket last night for €3 and thought this would work into the morning for the LUAS home.. only first time on the damned thing and i thought the tickets were similar to the dublin bus 2easy system.

Unfortunately not.. i was on the Luas the following morning and was told the ticket was'nt valid. I thought they would be more understanding of my mistake but obviously not. I've only ever been stopped by a bus conductor once and he basically asked me to buy another bus ticket. Not so on the LUAS a nice €45 euro fine.

What annoys me is that i actually did pay for both trips just got mixed up with the ticket system. Not very understanding at all.

Anyway i rang them up and i got the usual malark that they'll ring me back etc.

Basically i was wondering if anyone else had a similar run in as the number on my ticket was 163 so i'm thinking that the company behind the LUAS are trying to rack up big money with these fines while they can.

quite worrying as there is only one line in operation...

maxheadroom

So, you didn't have a valid ticket, you were caught, and you were fined? Where's the problem?

Everyone and his dog knows that they're being very strict on fines at the begining of the service, and probably for a long time afterwards. Otherwise you'll have the mess that exists on the dart and on dublin bus, where people pay the minimum fare, stay on for as long as they like, or in the case of the dart, get on without a ticket and then pay the minimum once they get to the city centre.

ambasite

Originally posted by Raggamuffin


Not so on the LUAS a nice €45 euro fine.

how do they follow it up? you give name and address?

Rew

Originally posted by maxheadroom
So, you didn't have a valid ticket, you were caught, and you were fined? Where's the problem?

He's hardly scaming the system, he made a genuine mistake that any of us would just as easily make. Id expect the same if I went out that I could use the return the next morning.

Keep on to them if they dont get back to you.

maxheadroom

Originally posted by Rew
He's hardly scaming the system, he made a genuine mistake that any of us would just as easily make. Id expect the same if I went out that I could use the return the next morning.

Keep on to them if they dont get back to you.

I think you're missing my point. It doesn't matter *why* he didn't have a valid ticket, it only matters *that* he didn't have one. Those are the conditions of transport. For what its worth, they're also the conditions of transport on Dublin bus and Irish Rail, but we're used to getting away with it there. Its not going to happen on a privately run service like LUAS.

rs

Originally posted by maxheadroom
I think you're missing my point. It doesn't matter *why* he didn't have a valid ticket, it only matters *that* he didn't have one. Those are the conditions of transport. For what its worth, they're also the conditions of transport on Dublin bus and Irish Rail, but we're used to getting away with it there. Its not going to happen on a privately run service like LUAS.

I don't think it's a good idea to whack people with fines in a situation like this. The service is only running a couple of weeks and there are bound to be mis-understandings like this.

I think making the individual pay the correct fare and making sure they understand why their ticket is not valid and that fines will be starting shortly would be much better. People will get the point that you don't try to cheat the LUAS, without feeling like the LUAS is simple out to rip them off.

More to the point, the person in question had a return ticket that had only been used once, and was not aware that a return had to be used on the same day.

So it's not like they got on the thing without a ticket at all, and then tried to play dumb. Had that been the case they would have fully deserved a fine. I've no problem with them fining people who just plainly abusing the system.

The LUAS got enough bad press about running way behind schedule and way over budget. I don't think it needs any more.

Rew

Originally posted by maxheadroom
I think you're missing my point. It doesn't matter *why* he didn't have a valid ticket, it only matters *that* he didn't have one. Those are the conditions of transport. For what its worth, they're also the conditions of transport on Dublin bus and Irish Rail, but we're used to getting away with it there. Its not going to happen on a privately run service like LUAS.

I think your missing the point he made a genuine mistake that is probably going to happen thousands of times in the near future. Id expect to be able to use the 2nd half of a return ticket to go home wouldn't you?

They should bin the ticket system they have and go with the Metro Card style system that have in NYC. One card/ticket works on all city wide public transport. The tickets either have a set number of journeys or time period. Execlent system that works.

I was working in Dun Laoghaire for a week a while back and I had to have 3 seperate tickets to get around, serious pain in the arse.

maxheadroom

Idiosyncrasies of our current, non integrated ticketing system aside, you're still missing the point. Fines aren't starting "soon", they've started now. At exactly the same time as the fares started. Which is, IMHO, as it should be. Given the way there's no onboard validation on luas, they have to be strict on things like this, otherwise they lose all credibility. If luas has a reputation for being tough on fare evasion, then people won't try. Yes its going to catch some people out, but that's just tough luck.

Yes, it was an expensive lesson to learn, but Raggamuffin won't make that mistake again. And, he could have saved himself some cash by reading the terms and conditions before travelling.

At the end of the day, the Luas staff were perfectly justified in fining him, and we'll all see the benefits of this policy in a few months time.

Rew

So to sum up what your saying:

"You should not expect be able to use a return ticket for the retun journey it was bought for"

Feel free to correct me if iv got you wrong in all this.

maxheadroom

Originally posted by Rew
So to sum up what your saying:

"You should not expect be able to use a return ticket for the retun journey it was bought for"

Feel free to correct me if iv got you wrong in all this.

No, what I'm saying is, read the conditions of what you're buying before you buy it. The conditions for the return ticket say "Single, Return and 1 Day tickets are only valid on the day they are issued" (from http://www.luas.ie/ftp/head3_US/Tickets%20and%20photocards.pdf - I don't know what the exact wording on the ticket / terms and conditions is).

He didn't try to "use a return ticket for the retun journey it was bought for", he tried to use it for a second journey which it was not bought for.

BrianD

More to the point, the person in question had a return ticket that had only been used once, and was not aware that a return had to be used on the same day.

I am sure it has the conditions of use are on the ticket and the validity dates.

The DART & suburban rail return tickets can only be used on the date of issue. You can't buy a return ticket on Dublin Bus so there is no precedent elsewhere that would back up this case. It was bad luck he didn't check the terms and conditions and he got caught.

From what I heard, Connex are taking no prisoners when it comes to not having a valid ticket. I know somebody who got caught but as they didn't take his address or fill in the "offence" on the form I doubt if he will be sending in the €45.

The frequency of the trams is tempting people to hop on and take a chance on not having a ticket. Perhaps the solution would be to put the ticket machines on the trams instead of on the platforms where they are open to vandalism and (since they take notes) theft.

Hecate

Well I hope connex have done enough research into their target market to know they'd be in for *massive* fair evasion if they aren't seen to be enforcing fines for invalid tickets or no ticket at all. Its just the way things are here - a tough stance has to be taken right out of the gate. Unfortunatly its going to catch out people who may have just made an innocent mistake.

ALLGOOD

Originally posted by Raggamuffin
a nice €45 euro fine.

buy a shotgun and smoke that muppet Brennan. (not joking).

Imposter

Are the ticket inspectors armed or martial arts experts? If not why not? I wouldn't want that job especially when the tallaght line opens!

I agree with the last post, a tough stance has to be taken from the start.

Raggamuffin

In answer to maxheadroom i agree with his attitude to people without valid tickets and such but to be honest their sense of overkill and blind justice is quite severe for a service only running two weeks.

I don't actually live close to a LUAs line and i was really enthusiastic to use the service when i got the chance due to staying with a friend.

Thing is i was'nt trying to get away with anything as i was waiting at the stop for awhile and it really did'nt occur to me that my return ticket was'nt valid. I'm not used to using the trains etc. and any mistake i made i was willing to pay full fare no question. Sure i paid the fare for both ways in the first place and i had enough money on me for the journey and for a bus journey later on.

I just think that the reason for them hitting the 45 euro fines is basically to get as much money as possible in the early runs due to mistakes etc.

WHy they did'nt just let me off the tram to go buy a new ticket and let me wait 10 minutes for a new tram i do not know. Sure we missed one tram due to the ticket machine being painfully slow.

If i'd have known about the terms of the return ticket i'd have just bought a single ticket each day.

Like i said i genuinely thought that it was similar to the way the dublin bus 2easy tickets work.

I don't think a 45euro fine will make me change my ways anymore than a simple bit of information form the ticket police about the nature of return tickets.

But as a second trip on the LUAS it was certainly a shock...

But remember i did actually pay for both trips i just mixed up my information regarding return tickets. Personally i think my logic makes more sense... 2 journey tickets regardless of the date purchased...

BrianD

Unfortunately, the rules are the rules and it was your own mistake. it's like getting clamped - we all have our unique reasons why we didn't pay the parking fee.

I just think that the reason for them hitting the 45 euro fines is basically to get as much money as possible in the early runs due to mistakes etc.

I very much doubt it. They are going very a high level of enforcement to eliminate fare evasion. It is a good sign that you were fined as it means that everybody is being treated the equally.

seamus

Originally posted by BrianD
Unfortunately, the rules are the rules and it was your own mistake. it's like getting clamped - we all have our unique reasons why we didn't pay the parking fee.

I very much doubt it. They are going very a high level of enforcement to eliminate fare evasion. It is a good sign that you were fined as it means that everybody is being treated the equally.

Yep, I'd agree. If people found out that they were letting people off for mistakes, you'd have all manner of little scumbags paying minimum fare and feigning ignorance, especially once the Tallaght line comes on stream.

You were just unlucky to be one of those who genuinely made a mistake Raggamuffin.

Boston

Originally posted by seamus
Yep, I'd agree. If people found out that they were letting people off for mistakes, you'd have all manner of little scumbags paying minimum fare and feigning ignorance, especially once the Tallaght line comes on stream.

You were just unlucky to be one of those who genuinely made a mistake Raggamuffin.

Thats abite strong, if it was a scum bag, he wouldn't have been bothered, it's only cause he's a decent chap that he got fined. A scum bag would have stabbed hte conductor or at least told him to **** off.

Scruff

i was on the luas saturday. Was sitting on it at Sandyford waiting for it to pull off and this famliy who were in the que for tickets jumped on when they heard the doors were about to close. The wifey was concerned that they had no tickets but the hubby told her they could probably buy them off an inspector. sure enough an inspector came round, caught em with no tickets, the husband just explains that he thought ye could buy them on board. inspector said nope. but instead of fining them he told em just to get off at the next stop and buy them, which they did.
maybe he was just a sound inspector or its just on saturday they are more lenient as most people getting it seemd to be like myself and doing it for the first time for the novelty factor.

Victor

I'm not sure, but I suspect Connex get very little if any of the fare or standard fare (it's not a fine) money.

fjon

I don't think this has anything to do with Connex trying to make as much money as they can during the early days of the Luas. If anything, they are trying to set an example by being strict at this stage to let people know they can't get away with it.

As for the return ticket - how is the inspector to know this wasn't just picked up off the ground, or from a bin? Without any proper kind of validation it is easy enough for someone to do this and think they will get away with it.

On a similar note, I took the Luas into twon from Sandyford on Friday night. On the 20 mionute trip THREE different inspectors came on to inspect our tickets, all seemingly oblivious to each other's presence. That seemed a bit like overkill, but I'm glad it wasn't the other way around. And yes, a few people got caught and had to cough up.

Raggamuffin

i still don't see why they did'nt just tell me to get off the tarin and buy a ticket...

i mean this is'nt a service that has been running for that long.

like i said total lack of understanding.

i'm definatley not paying it.

BrianD

You were caught fair and square so pay up! You didn't read the ticket and the validity dates. In your case it was an oversight but you are the same as the next guy who doesn't have a ticket. If they let everybody off the train "to pay" they would simply wait for the next one and jump on that!

The service may not be running for long but the ticketing is virtually the same as any other transit system in the world.

Andrew Duffy

i'm definatley not paying it.

You realise the fine can be up to €600, plus legal costs?

jank

Why cant u give just a false name and address!!

They dont have a right to ask for ID so just do that thinking that you will pay them later

Raggamuffin

i was'nt caught though... ( i think caught implies that i was trying to get away with something with prior knowledge of what i was supposed to do and then somebody spotting it and intervening) i mean why would i hand them an invalid ticket on purpose...? To test them??? a mistake...

I obviously was'nt trying to get away with anything and the ticket person should have seen that.

To be honest brian i can't see how fair it really is seeing as i had already paid for 2 fares already.

oh and seeing as you quoted other cities around the world let i remind you that this is a single transit line in one area of dublin. I'm not sure it's the same as any other city because any other city would have an extensive transit system that possibly warranted such overkill policies.

Raggamuffin

Also i've been reading about Connex the company running the LUAS...

It doe'snt have the best record at all when it comes to public transport.

BuffyBot

Originally posted by Raggamuffin
Also i've been reading about Connex the company running the LUAS...

It doe'snt have the best record at all when it comes to public transport.

Wouldn't beleive everything you read. They contributed (not all their fault) to the mess that is the South East rail franchise in the UK, but elsewhere they've a pretty good record.

RicardoSmith

Girl on the luas today got fined. She went from town to Ranelgh. Ticket inspectors (both women BTW) got on at Harcourt St. I expect fare evasion will be a constant problem on the luas, for as long as its operational.

maxheadroom

Originally posted by Raggamuffin
Also i've been reading about Connex the company running the LUAS...

It doe'snt have the best record at all when it comes to public transport.

They do a fantastic job in Stockholm and Helsinki...

GreeBo

It clearly says on the ticket when it is valid.
The fact that you made a mistake is unimportant, as it says on every stop and on the tram, it is YOUR responsibility to have a valid ticket.

It also says on the back
"Return Ticket: Complete first leg of journey within 90 minutes of ticket issue and the return leg on day of ticket issue"

So where do you think that you have a way out of a fine?

Johnny Versace

As has been said many times...

There really isn't any fine unless you are a mongo.

Example Johnny Versace vs Inspector conversation.

I: Tickets please.
JV: Sorry I can't find mine.
I: That's a 45 Euro fine.
JV: Great. Please charge me the maximum 600 Euro fine. My name is Johhny Versace and my address is [anything at all]

...

There is no fine.

maxheadroom

Originally posted by Raggamuffin
i was'nt caught though... ( i think caught implies that i was trying to get away with something with prior knowledge of what i was supposed to do and then somebody spotting it and intervening) i mean why would i hand them an invalid ticket on purpose...? To test them??? a mistake...

Lots of people might try it, in case the inspector was in a rush and didn't bother checking properly, for instance. You might think that you've more chance of getting away with it than if you didn't try and hand a ticket.

I obviously was'nt trying to get away with anything and the ticket person should have seen that.

How? (S)He isn't a mind reader, and the simple fact is that you were trying to get away with traveling without a valid ticket.

To be honest brian i can't see how fair it really is seeing as i had already paid for 2 fares already.

So by your logic, if I buy a ticket for a flight to london tonight, and then decide I don't want to go until tomorrow morning, the airline should just accept that and let me travel in the morning?

oh and seeing as you quoted other cities around the world let i remind you that this is a single transit line in one area of dublin. I'm not sure it's the same as any other city because any other city would have an extensive transit system that possibly warranted such overkill policies.

This is typical Irish attitude - "sure the rules dont apply to me because..." you're just looking for an excuse to justify your attitude here. Just accept that you were wrong, pay your fine, and don't do it again.

cyberspider

I have done some work for the RPO (Revenue Protection Officers) of a Train operator in The UK.

The Laws regarding ticket evasion are quite odd over there and I presume they are the same here.

• It is not an offence to be travelling without a valid ticket
• However it is an offence to be travelling without the intention of paying for a ticket (Fraud)

Subtle difference

The offence/law you are caught under if fraud. So if you explain to the ticket inspector that you have the money to pay for the ticket and were intending to do so on board (Explain you didn't know there were no machines on board). Offer to pay the inspector for the ticket. Legally he can not Fine you. However he can ask you for your name and address details.

If you furnish false details then this once again is fraud and would make you liable for the Fine. They also keep a database of previous ofenders. If you are caught again you are liable for increased fines.

As I said these were the laws in the UK so they might not be exactly the same here

maxheadroom

Originally posted by cyberspider
I have done some work for the RPO (Revenue Protection Officers) of a Train operator in The UK.

The Laws regarding ticket evasion are quite odd over there and I presume they are the same here.

• It is not an offence to be travelling without a valid ticket
• However it is an offence to be travelling without the intention of paying for a ticket (Fraud)

Subtle difference

The offence/law you are caught under if fraud. So if you explain to the ticket inspector that you have the money to pay for the ticket and were intending to do so on board (Explain you didn't know there were no machines on board). Offer to pay the inspector for the ticket. Legally he can not Fine you. However he can ask you for your name and address details.

If you furnish false details then this once again is fraud and would make you liable for the Fine. They also keep a database of previous ofenders. If you are caught again you are liable for increased fines.

As I said these were the laws in the UK so they might not be exactly the same here

Yes, but if you're traveling without a valid ticket and then offer to buy one, you must pay "the standard fare", which is what the €45 "fine" actually is.

chewy

i ****ing hate all the dickheads on these boards going you broke a law you should hanged for it!!!

theses people must have some serious stress problems and probably die at 40 from a heart with all the rigidness and hate in their bodies.....


take this for example i get on the train at howth junction for a 3rd of the time has no-one at the ticket office...

the "rule" says you can't get on train without a ticket...
so if i get on and a ticket inspector asks for my ticket and i say hey the ticket office was closed he could say, according to some, tough luck you can't be on the train without a ticket im going to give ya big fine now....



no that's not what happens you give people the benefit if the doubt.... its called humantiy you should join it some time!!!!

RicardoSmith

Originally posted by chewy
i ****ing hate all the dickheads on these boards going you broke a law you should hanged for it!!!

theses people must have some serious stress problems and probably die at 40 from a heart with all the rigidness and hate in their bodies.....


take this for example i get on the train at howth junction for a 3rd of the time has no-one at the ticket office...

the "rule" says you can't get on train without a ticket...
so if i get on and a ticket inspector asks for my ticket and i say hey the ticket office was closed he could say, according to some, tough luck you can't be on the train without a ticket im going to give ya big fine now....



no that's not what happens you give people the benefit if the doubt.... its called humantiy you should join it some time!!!!

Except for the fact that the Luas has automatic ticket machines that example would be valid. I'm sure you can always appeal the fine.

Capt'n Midnight

Originally posted by redoxan
"Return Ticket: Complete first leg of journey within 90 minutes of ticket issue and the return leg on day of ticket issue"

and you can't validate the ticket on the Tram. Is there like, a mad rush to validate tickets when the LUAS appears and what happens if it's out of service and there are none in the next 90 minutes ..

RicardoSmith

Originally posted by Capt'n Midnight
and you can't validate the ticket on the Tram. Is there like, a mad rush to validate tickets when the LUAS appears and what happens if it's out of service and there are none in the next 90 minutes ..

Any station I've been at has at least two ticket machines and its meant to be every 10 mins?

Victor

Originally posted by Capt'n Midnight
and you can't validate the ticket on the Tram. Is there like, a mad rush to validate tickets when the LUAS appears and what happens if it's out of service and there are none in the next 90 minutes ..

Eh, I suspect the staff will know about this and act accordingly.

Raggamuffin

OK i'm not repeating myself again ok...

Listen to the argument and don't just refer to that diiotic example of the airline flights which doe'snt apply at all.

1. i buy a return ticket at 9pm the evening before as i "thought" it would be easier than buying a ticket in the morning... much like dropping into a centra to grab a 2easy ticket if you expect to be using the bus in the morning... save the hassle.

2. my first journey on the luas and i carefully put away my ticket to be used the following morning.

3. i have no sense of guilt getting on the train. Alright. I'm not intentionally avoiding a fare or trying to travel with an invalid ticket. Up to until the inspector informs me i was under the impression i had paid for my journey.

4. The inspector then says to me it's invalid and i then tell her thats it's ok it's a return ticket ( see i'm still unaware of the rules etc). She explains absolutely nothing to me and basically she says she'd write a ticket. I understand this to mean that she'll allow me to pay for a single ticket seeing as i've made the mistake. I actually thought tht she was taking my details for the reason of issuing a new ticket (you see i am quite silly and understanding when it comes to these things especially when the person obviously has paid the fair just simply did'nt understand the system).

5. i refused to sign the ticket as i did'nt agree that a fine was applicable in the situation.

I response to the idiotic assumptions that only by "mind reading" can somebody truly tell if someone is lying or being sincere i beg to differ. You use your best judgement in the situation and not the company line. It did'nt help that the person who stopped me could'nt speak very good english and was being watched by 2 other, who i beleive were higher up in the ranks, inspectors.

And it's not a case of "the rules don't apply to me" at all... thats poor judgement on your part and may i say that your view, maxheadroom, has been highly authoritarian and biased from the start. You automatically assume people are trying to get away with things all the time a very poor way to treat other people.

I will be speaking to connex about the fine and hopefully they will be far more understanding than briand or maxheadroom.

maxheadroom

I am listening to your argument; I just don't think it’s valid.

And, please explain how the example of airline flights is "idiotic". It is certainly exaggerated, I'll grant you that, but in both cases you're talking about trying to obtain passage on an invalid ticket.

And, unfortunately, people are trying to get away with things all the time. Why, just right here, you're trying to get away with travelling on an invalid ticket

Look on it as a threshold situation - one you cross a certain line, it doesn't matter how far over it you go, you're still in the wrong. Unfortunately you got caught just barely on the wrong side.

Earthhorse

I think you were unfortunate to get the €45 fine (or standard fare as people have pointed out). I imagine you were landed with it because the inspector thought you were trying to get away with using the same ticket two days in a row. Most people whom I have seen caught by inspectors are let off with a warning or the price of a ticket for the journey they were making so I don't think they have to make you pay €45.

You should appeal the amount of the ticket and explain the situation to the Luas office again.

Good luck!

Raggamuffin

Originally posted by maxheadroom
I'll grant you that, but in both cases you're talking about trying to obtain passage on an invalid ticket.

I would never ever try to obtain passage on an invalid ticket iwas unaware that it was invalid.

Anyway with a flight at least i would'nt be half way through the flight when a stewardess walks up to me and tells me i'm fined.

I'm not trying to make it not wrong all i'm saying is that 45euro is something i can't pay right now and a simple replacement ticket would have been way better.

i'll check it out and tell you how i get on if your interested.

chewy

You use your best judgement in the situation and not the company line. It did'nt help that the person who stopped me could'nt speak very good english and was being watched by 2 other, who i beleive were higher up in the ranks, inspectors.


thats why you were fined beyond reason...
obviously...

and your exactly right, ignore those others they will die alone...

L5

Is it just me or could you just give false details when asked? False name address? Theyve no authority to ask you to provide proof of name I assume?
Just curious

Victor

Originally posted by L5
Is it just me or could you just give false details when asked? False name address? Theyve no authority to ask you to provide proof of name I assume? Just curious

In essence, they are entitled to ask you for your particulars. If they suspect you have given false particulars they can call the Garda (who in such cases will usually respond prompty). I'm not sure if they can actually detain you until the Garda arrives. The Garda may detain you until they can assertain your identity.

alleepally

Originally posted by chewy
i ****ing hate all the dickheads on these boards going you broke a law you should hanged for it!!!

theses people must have some serious stress problems and probably die at 40 from a heart with all the rigidness and hate in their bodies.....


take this for example i get on the train at howth junction for a 3rd of the time has no-one at the ticket office...

the "rule" says you can't get on train without a ticket...
so if i get on and a ticket inspector asks for my ticket and i say hey the ticket office was closed he could say, according to some, tough luck you can't be on the train without a ticket im going to give ya big fine now....



no that's not what happens you give people the benefit if the doubt.... its called humantiy you should join it some time!!!!

THANK YOU for saving me the trouble of saying the same thing...

God almighty, there has to be discretion used. Anyone taking the hard "rules are rules" line should put themselves in the position of Ragamuffin and see if they wouldn't feel the same about the €45 fine.

Victor

Chewy, go wash out your mouth with soap and PM me in a week.

DadaKopf

Ireland's a very pretty dishonest country at the best of times and without the Connex people reviewing security footage of you buying your ticket, there's really no reason for the inspector to believe your story but you should by all means challenge the fine.

I totally understand what you're saying, though. I'm not disptuting that you honestly purchased a ticket but made a mistake. Many vending machines I've encountered haven't been working properly. They've been eating money. I could easily see myself in a situation where I have just enough change to buy a ticket home but the machine guzzled my change and forgot to print out my ticket. I'd probably still get on knowing I did pay but their system cocked up. I'd get fined but would make sure I got my money back pronto.

However, there's a difference between yours and my predicaments - one implies you didn't make enough of an effort to find out about the ticketing system yourself, the other places the blame on their poxy machines. One's the passanger's fault, one's the company's fault.

Obvious stuff. But here's my point: I've had enough of the casual Irish attitude to rules and regulations regarding public transport; if you set a bad precedent, you open the path for fare dodgers. However I actually don't like the fact that the LUAS is privately owned, I want it to be nationally owned, but in the general public interest I'll honestly pay the feckin' ticket price.

In the end I'd much rather the customer to be right than Connex and I'd be much more into holding them to account for operating a crappy system from the outset, breaking their obligations to us rather than some of us who make careless mistakes, asking them to waive the rules which tends to feed the vicious cycle ad infinitum.

If that makes sense.

maxheadroom

Originally posted by DadaKopf
However I actually don't like the fact that the LUAS is privately owned, I want it to be nationally owned...In the end I'd much rather the customer to be right than Connex and I'd be much more into holding them to account for operating a crappy system from the outset, breaking their obligations to us

Just an FYI, Luas is owned by the state and operated by the RPA. The RPA gets the ticket revenue, IIRC. Connex are simply the operating company, and operate under contract to the RPA.