NCT Fail & Re-testing

Seth Brundle

My car was serviced on Saturday & NCT'd on Sunday. It failed because of a mis-aligned headlamp (which had been aligned the day before but not correctly!).
As with all dealers they cannot guarrantee that the car will pass the NCT. The dealer in question did fix the headlamp but will not (again, as with most dealers) pay for the re-test - I was told that on my invoice from Saturday there was a disclaimer!
This problem is becomming more and more commin in this poxy rip-off nation of ours and there is nothing that we can do.
Fair enough, I could have avioded the dealer and just brought the car for its NCT and then fixed whatever amy have failed, but that then requires a re-test fee. [Anyway, I wanted to get my car checked before the warranty ran out, so thay's why I chose to use a dealer and not DIY].
I suspect that the majority of motorists in Ireland get their car serviced in preparation for the NCT. But where do they stand from a consumer point of view? They pay money to get the car fixed. They pay money to get the car checked and then they pay more money to pass the re-test.
Its not fair!

Furp

Last year my wife's car, a 99 Ford Ka had been serviced a few months before the test, just to be sure we dropped the car into a ford dealer for a NCT Pre Check, they only charged 30 Euro but I don't think they did anything with the car as they did not replace a broken brake light, anyway the car failed the test but not only because of the brake light but because NCT said that the suspension struts in the rear of the car where lose and dangerous.

Anyway we were very annoyed with Ford and told them so, they took the car back and said that the rear suspension was fine, as the car had less than 20,000 miles on it and is hardly used. And that is the way the rear suspension is designed on the Ka's, when the load is taken off the wheels by lifting the car that the shocks hang down.

They said that Ford Ireland had a dispute with the NCT because they where failing lots of Ka's because of this and it was supposed to be sorted.

Anyway the solution to the problem, originally I was going to get new shocks in the rear as I thought Ford messed up, but after them telling us that the shocks where ok, they installed two small rubber shims in the rear of the car, the car redid the NCT, the guy lifted the car and tried pulling at the rear shocks and because of the rubber shims the shocks stayed solid.

The car passed the NCT Ford took the shims back out, even though they missed the brake light , they where very helpful and I had a chat with the service manager they where well annoyed at NCT and said that this problem was supposed to be sorted with the NCT, anyway we did have to pay for a retest but at least I didn't have to buy new shocks for the car.

On a side note I had my own car NCT'ed on the same day and it passed fine strangely enough the emission readings from my 1.8L Nissan engine where a lot lower than that from my wife's 1.3L Ka which I thought was strange but was told that it was probably due to me driving the car all the time 60miles a day.

Victor

Originally posted by kbannon
The dealer in question did fix the headlamp but will not (again, as with most dealers) pay for the re-test - I was told that on my invoice from Saturday there was a disclaimer!

Chapleton v Barry UDC (1940). You can't impose a condition of contract on an invoice or receipt.

Separately, you had the service done for the purpose of passing the test (you did mention this to the garage didn't you?). Would you accept them servicing the brakes (and being paid for it) and saying "we aren't sure these brakes will actually work"?

Seth Brundle

In my case it doesn't matter as I will be getting the money back in the end. However, this is happening nationwide, despite Chapleton v Barry UDC (1940).
Something does need to be done as people are being shafted on both sides!

I refer back to a post I posted before whereby my father had his lights aligned by Denis Mahony's Toyota. Failed NCT on lights. Back to Toyota. Lights are spot on according to Toyota.
My da was fupped if he was going to pay for a re-test as he had already paid. Why should he be out the best part of €30 for something he didn't do?
Only after he penned a letter to the NCTS, Min & Jr. Min of Transport, AA Ireland & Mahony's was the matter addressed and his car was taken away for a few hours and returned with a cert.

Interceptor

These stories are so common - the best I have heard of is the NCT centre in the midlands where they bang the headlight-measuring-machine with their fists and the car passes. I have to admit that I've given up on the NCT system, I tired of trying to stay on the right side of it and now don't bother. My Renault Espace failed last year for headlight alignment and despite the lights being adjustable I was forced to do a re-test. I can't be ars*d writing to the Ministry for Stupid Hair trying to get them to see sense. Previously my '88 Mini failed because it didn't have bumpers - I explained that the car was de-seamed and customised and that Mini bumpers were purely cosmetic anyway but the guy was adamant, saying that he 'didn't care if they are Velcro-ed on - it has to have them'. You can still tax a car without an NCT and so long as that continues, I won't be complying. Up the rebels...

'ceptr

Bogger77

Originally posted by interceptor
You can still tax a car without an NCT and so long as that continues, I won't be complying. Up the rebels...

Where does this leave you if you have a crash and

a ) are required show your's doc's at a garda station
and
b ) how would your insurance company deal with a claim etc?

Interceptor

Probably up the creek without a paddle if the reason for the crash could be attributed to the prior NCT fail, but if your car failed for not have the name of the county of registration in Irish or for the indicator bulbs not being 'orange enough' then I don't believe the same penalties will apply. I have yet to hear of anyone being fined/penalised for not having an NCT - anyone care to comment? I'm sure that once they introduce points for not having an NCT I'll be down banging on the door of the NCT centre at ten to eight, but until then they can get stuffed.

Its just another stealth tax on the common man - I already pay enough tax, I drive a 2.9 litre car.

'ceptr

Victor

Originally posted by interceptor
Previously my '88 Mini failed because it didn't have bumpers - I explained that the car was de-seamed

What does deseamed mean?

What happens when you hit a pedestrian?

ScabbyLeg

It's just incredible the amount of cars that seem to fail due to misaligned headlights! I know that when my mother had her '99 car NCTed it would have failed for this reason, but they hadn't actually yet implemented this as a reason for failure- it was just a problem you were supposed to deal with "sometime".

Anyway, someone mentioned to me the other day that they heard of a case on the radio whereby a car was tested, failed due to the headlights, but was retested on a different testing rig in the same facility on the same day, and it passed. A bit crazy, eh?

unkel

Originally posted by ScabbyLeg
It's just incredible the amount of cars that seem to fail due to misaligned headlights! I know that when my mother had her '99 car NCTed it would have failed for this reason, but they hadn't actually yet implemented this as a reason for failure- it was just a problem you were supposed to deal with "sometime".

Yep my last car had this in both times it went through the NCT. It led to a fail/advisory status, which meant the car still passed the NCT

Not anymore now as loads of people have found out

PBC_1966

Sounds as though you're now getting the same criticisms as we've had of the British MoT for many years -- That a car can fail in one place and be passed by another, or that testers are complaining about trivial little things.

Just a thought if headlight aim is one of the things the NCT places like to "catch you out on": How about making sure you have a suitable screwdriver with you when going for the test? Then if they say the headlights are too high/low/off center or whatever you can just whip out your screwdriver and adjust them on the spot until they're happy.

Interceptor

What does deseamed mean?

Deseamed is when external weld/fold seams are removed and replaced with surface welding and filling. See pic for front of car.

What happens when you hit a pedestrian?

With a Mini (designed in 1958) if you hit a pedestrian they are struck below the knees by an unyielding assembly of welded metal and they smash through the unlaminated windscreen to become impaled on the unfeasably sharp gearstick, at which point you can scream at them for not looking where they were going. Sorry, I have an over-active sarcasm gland - my point was that Mini bumpers, being folded steel which is solidly bolted at three points to the car, neither protect pedestrians or the car in the event of an accident - they were mainly cosmetic.

'ceptr

Seth Brundle

Originally posted by PBC_1966
Just a thought if headlight aim is one of the things the NCT places like to "catch you out on": How about making sure you have a suitable screwdriver with you when going for the test? Then if they say the headlights are too high/low/off center or whatever you can just whip out your screwdriver and adjust them on the spot until they're happy.

By the time you are made aware of the fact that your car failed, your 'go' is over and you have to book it in for a re-test @ €27.20 for them to check it again.

unkel

Yeah you're only informed after it has failed. My last NCT failed because a nut was not tight enough. Took my mechanic 5 seconds to fix (tighten) after he looked at it while the car was on the lift :rolleyes:

Why could the NCT guy not have done this? Would have brought them a lot of good will...

leeroybrown

They're interested in profit not good will. They see a fail rate as a profit metric. There is a limited pool of cars requiring a test and the same company tests them all so their profits are proportional to the fail rate.

If the NCT guy fixed the car on discovering the minor problem he would probably have recieved a warning or lost his job!

dcGT

Originally posted by leeroybrown
They're interested in profit not good will. They see a fail rate as a profit metric. There is a limited pool of cars requiring a test and the same company tests them all so their profits are proportional to the fail rate.

If the NCT guy fixed the car on discovering the minor problem he would probably have recieved a warning or lost his job!

And here's silly old me thinking the NCT was for 'Safer, Cleaner Motoring' :rolleyes:

I think headlight alignment is a financial God-send to the NCT. Originally, it was a 'fail advisory' which meant you didn't have to get it fixed, but now, all 'fail advisory' faults are 'fail refusal'.
Headlight alignment is a tricky one to guess, because it will cost you about €25 to get them aligned before the test. The problem is, you never know for sure if you need them aligned (until you go for the test and you're failed because of it). I know a lot of people that have failed on headlight alignment only.

Another thing that really annoys me is the inability of some of the testers to speak English. God forbid you would actually like to ask a question about the car or the test!! I did and I got a blank look and was completely ignored.

DC.

PBC_1966

It varies place to place here, but I try to find small, out-of-the-way test centers where the MoT tester takes a more common-sense view.

Most of these once you get to know the guy he's quite happy for you to take the opportunity of watching the test in full as he carries it out, and also to have the chance to take a good look underneath your car while he has it up on the lift.

These sort of guys also seem to take a sensible approach to trivial things. You could check the bulbs before leaving and have a brake light blow on the way there for example. When he discovers it, he'll just let you put a new one in while he tests something else, or if someone has left the car with him a while he'll probably just whip one in himself for you.

If you get to know these sort of testers, they'll then often just let little things like that slip by: "Your license plate light is out -- You'll take care of that later, won't you?"

We do run into some gestapo-trained inspectors though. Like the one who failed my brother's car because the warning light in the hazard switch had blown. :rolleyes: Not even sure there's a requirement to have one, but he was insistent, apparently.