Sinn Féin's EU parliament allegiance

ishmael whale

Now this is good news.

http://www.breakingnews.ie/2004/07/13/story156852.html

Sinn Féin decide on EU parliament allegiance
13/07/2004 - 15:58:51

Sinn Féin’s MEPs are to work within the United European Left and Nordic Green Alliance group in the European Parliament, they confirmed today…..

ReefBreak

Originally posted by ishmael whale
Now this is good news.

When you say "good news", what do you mean?

A quote from the article:

The United European Left/Nordic Green Alliance has in the past drawn MEPs from the French, Portuguese and Italian Communist Parties, the Latvian and Dutch Socialists and the Greek Democratic Social Party.

Mighty_Mouse

You have a problem with communist parties associating with socialist-left parties? Are we still in 1950's America?

ReefBreak

Originally posted by Mighty_Mouse
You have a problem with communism?

Yes, I certainly do. It is without a doubt one of the most oppressive political systems to ever be foisted on the world. But don't take my word for it - ask the couple of hundred million people in Eastern Europe that experienced the affects of it over 70 or 50 years (depending on the country) in the last century. Ditto North Korea, China, Viet Nam, Cuba, Cambodia...

Anyway, it's good to know who the friends of Sinn Féin are.

ishmael whale

Originally posted by Mighty_Mouse
You have a problem with communist parties associating with socialist-left parties? Are we still in 1950's America?

We're not in 1950's America, but Sinn Fein seem to be in 1950's Soviet Union.

http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/ireland/2004/0615/483495223EL4EUROSINNFEIN.html

The Unified Left, along with the Nordic Green Left, is one of seven groups in the Parliament. It includes a range of radical parties, including the Democratic Socialist Party (PDS) in Germany, the successor to the SED party which controlled East Germany for 40 years….. [and] ….. the Communist Party for Bohemia and Moravia, which emerged out of the communist party that ran Czechoslovakia, and the communist parties of France and Italy.

Sparks

Originally posted by ReefBreak
Yes, I certainly do. It is without a doubt one of the most oppressive political systems to ever be foisted on the world. But don't take my word for it - ask the couple of hundred million people in Eastern Europe that experienced the affects of it over 70 or 50 years (depending on the country) in the last century. Ditto North Korea, China, Viet Nam, Cuba, Cambodia...

Are we going to do the whole forty-page "communism is not stalinism and we've never seen actual communism in modern times no more than we've ever seen actual capitalism" debate again?

dahamsta

Watch out lads, Reds under the bed! :rolleyes:

ishmael whale

Originally posted by Sparks
Are we going to do the whole forty-page "communism is not stalinism and we've never seen actual communism in modern times no more than we've ever seen actual capitalism" debate again?

I'm hoping more for forty pages of 'isn't it delicious that the Shinners can't get anyone apart from this group of reformed totalitarians to sit with them', balanced by increasing levels of farce from their supporters.

Sparks

Originally posted by ishmael whale
I'm hoping more for forty pages of 'isn't it delicious that the Shinners can't get anyone apart from this group of reformed totalitarians to sit with them', balanced by increasing levels of farce from their supporters.

What about us "wouldn't vote for SF, but wouldn't vote for the other shower of so-and-so's either" mob? (You know, the ones who vote Green because you're not allowed vote "none of the above"?) Where do we come in? Or can we just bugger off to the pub?

sceptre

Originally posted by dahamsta
Watch out lads, Reds under the bed! :rolleyes:

They'll mate with the spiders and feed on dust and skin flakes before rising as a super red bug race wearing green underpants that'll enslave us all. Hold me Mommy.

On the other hand, what ishmael is hoping for sounds a helluvalot more entertaining. Give me time to do some popcorn.

Meh

Originally posted by Sparks
Are we going to do the whole forty-page "communism is not stalinism and we've never seen actual communism in modern times no more than we've ever seen actual capitalism" debate again?

Well, the PDS are the people who built the Berlin Wall, created the Stasi, funded RAF terrorists in West Germany and crushed the East German worker's revolt in 1953. So no matter whether we call them Communists or not, they've still got some pretty ugly skeletons in their closet. Perfect company for Sinn Féin really.

gandalf

The RAF had terrorists ?

sceptre

Originally posted by gandalf
The RAF had terrorists ?

Andreas Baader's RAF did. Charming people. I blame the rise of heavy metal myself as it happened around the same time.

Meh

Originally posted by gandalf
The RAF had terrorists ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Army_Faction

gandalf

Dammit you did that on purpose didn't you. Jaysus never heard the Red Army Faction called the RAF !!

Yep looks like the shinners are in good company alright.

Irish04

I have to laugh reading some of the c**p written here.

Would you all rather Sinn Féin to allign themselves with the Fascists of the world?

And no, Stalins Russia was NOT Communism

Meh

Originally posted by Irish04
I have to laugh reading some of the c**p written here.

Would you all rather Sinn Féin to allign themselves with the Fascists of the world?

Not at all, I think this group is an excellent match for Sinn Féin. They'll fit right in. They can swap anecdotes with the PDS about supporting left-wing terrorism.

article6

In a way, I'm delighted to hear this. God willing, news that Sinn Féin have joined the 'Communist' group will filter back to America, and put Sinn Féin's (quite conservative) financial supporters off giving them any more money.

Mighty_Mouse

In a way, I'm delighted to hear this. God willing, news that Sinn Féin have joined the 'Communist' group will filter back to America, and put Sinn Féin's (quite conservative) financial supporters off giving them any more money.

Have ye resorted to prayer already? Jasus! PPL must be fierce frightened of the Shinners growth!

ionapaul

You'd have to be crazy not to be frightened of murderers and criminals getting their hands on power, unless you believed in their aims and methods.

Mighty_Mouse

You'd have to be crazy not to be frightened of murderers and criminals getting their hands on power,

So a country can never move from war to a functioning deomocracy? Those murdering Fianna Fail feckers!! That Dev fella should of never gotten into power!!

ionapaul

Fianna Fail don't presently have a private army (well, private army with guns and baseball bats - they have quite an army of spindoctors and canvassers though!) ready/threatening to return to the armed struggle if they don't get what they want. Or still heavily involved in smuggling and blackmail. Or still heavily involved in brutal 'community policing'. Dev also turned decisively against his old 'comrades' in the IRA when it was time to rejoin the political arena.

ishmael whale

http://www.politics.ie/modules.php?name=News&file=print&sid=5850

Sinn Féin MEPs set out agenda and priorities in Europe
"In Europe we will work through the European United Left/Nordic Green Group (GUE/HGL) - this is a very effective and progressive group within the Parliament, which does not operate a whip system ….”

They don’t operate whips. Presumably the Stasi found electrocution far more efficient.

In all seriousness, does this emphasis on the lack of a whip not an indication of the Shinners feeling vulnerable on who they’ve ended up in bed with? And why bother saying ‘a very effective and progressive group’ when we all know who it includes? This has shades of Basil Fawlty saying don’t mention the war.

That said, they've learnt from experience that you can get a fair distance by ballsing it out.

bonkey

Originally posted by ionapaul
Fianna Fail don't presently have a private army

Not in teh slightest bit related to what you said :

You'd have to be crazy not to be frightened of murderers and criminals getting their hands on power,

When Dev et al got their hands on power, there were criminals and murderers aplenty amongst them. Hell, they got power before independence, so every single one fo them technically was a criminal, and many of them murderers to boot.

By what you said, that means anyone who wasn't frightened of them getting their hands on power was crazy. So everyone who supported them was crazy.

Whether or not they've since dropped thir military ways has nothing to do with what you originally said, nor the response to it.

Now, if what you posted wasn't entirely accurately what you meant, don't you think you should clarify that?

Dev also turned decisively against his old 'comrades' in the IRA when it was time to rejoin the political arena.

You might want to clarify what you mean by "rejoining" the political arena. Dev was happily working in the political arena of the provisional government with criminals and murderes prior to the obtaining of independence.

jc

article6

Originally posted by Mighty_Mouse
Have ye resorted to prayer already? Jasus! PPL must be fierce frightened of the Shinners growth!

Oh, I'm fierce frightened alright. They refuse to deliver on many of their commitments to the GFA - while hectoring to the British Government about its failure to do so. Their refusal to leave the private army behind them is enough to strike fear into the hearts of many people in Ireland, who remember. Though it's wise to keep some perspective on this, as Bonkey advises.

(Incidentally, I was studying Mozambique's politics recently. It's still dominated by the parties of the former pro- and anti-Communist guerillas. The similarities to our country struck me; that is, of our six major parties, only the Greens have no known historical links to terrorism or a militia - if we count the PDs as having a Fianna Fáil tradition. We certainly should consider our development as having some similarities to the casebook Third World nation in political terms, if not in economics.)

arcadegame2004

Of course SF should join the Communist grouping in the European Parliament. For them to do otherwise would be dishonest. They are just admitting what they are.;)

monument

Originally posted by ReefBreak
Yes, I certainly do. It is without a doubt one of the most oppressive political systems to ever be foisted on the world....

I’m guessing you’re not talking about the oppressive the United States forced on some of the above countries?

Cuba has a better health system then ours, the gangsters were run out of the country, and their economy would be far better if it was not for US restrictions.

China’s economy is apparently soon to lead the world, unlike right wing “democratic” places like India there is no mass amount of people starving on the streets. [Just in case India is two far down your list of “good” systems - unlike in the US there is no mass of homeless, and it is not left up to churches and charities to feed people]

However, China could be just about as far as the US to my idea of a good system, I have problems with Cuba - but it would be nice to see it work with out a oppressive outside political systems interfering.

Originally posted by Meh
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Army_Faction

Note the text I put into that page.... ANY ONE CAN EDIT THIS TEXT. PAPER DOES NOT REFUSE INK....note it before another person edits it. (I’m just letting you know, I'm not saying anything on it is untrue. The top bit, which can not be edited, probably is fine)

Meh

Originally posted by monument
Note the text I put into that page.... ANY ONE CAN EDIT THIS TEXT. PAPER DOES NOT REFUSE INK....note it before another person edits it.

Congratulations, you've figured out how Wikipedia works, and all on your own too. Someone's fixed your vandalism already (I presume 159.134.232.232 is you).

Edit -- and do you think you could stop making an ass out of yourself? All you're doing is proving how fast the Wikipedia editors can revert it.

arcadegame2004

China’s economy is apparently soon to lead the world, unlike right wing “democratic” places like India there is no mass amount of people starving on the streets.

China's economic policies are actually right-wing nowadays, in spite of its ostensibly "socialist" philosophy. I don't accept though that its economy is "soon" to lead the world. The US carries out literally twice as much trade with Ireland than it does with China. You completely ignore China's human-rights record of course. Typical of the Left. They turn a blind eye to what China and Russia get up to. They blame the US for everything under the sun.

Of course the US has flaws, but if you're going to demonstrate against them when US leaders arrive, then in the name of consistency please subject regimes like China and Russia to equal accountability with respect to criticism. It is just nonsensical to compare the US to China in respect of human-rights.

monument

Originally posted by Meh
Congratulations, you've figured out how Wikipedia works, and all on your own too. Someone's fixed your vandalism already (I presume 159.134.232.232 is you).

Edit -- and do you think you could stop making an ass out of yourself? All you're doing is proving how fast the Wikipedia editors can revert it.

What I did was obvious, unlike the way Wikipedia works.

Originally posted by arcadegame2004
I don't accept though that its economy is "soon" to lead the world. The US carries out literally twice as much trade with Ireland than it does with China.

Wow, in percentage terms the US is carrying out literally twice as much trade with Ireland – that’s amazing, well no, it’s not amazing, and I’m quite unsure why your bring it up. Maybe the US isn’t selling anything China wants?

Originally posted by arcadegame2004 You completely ignore China's human-rights record of course. Typical of the Left. They turn a blind eye to what China and Russia get up to. They blame the US for everything under the sun.

Of course the US has flaws, but if you're going to demonstrate against them when US leaders arrive, then in the name of consistency please subject regimes like China and Russia to equal accountability with respect to criticism. It is just nonsensical to compare the US to China in respect of human-rights.

I remember typing...

However, China could be just about as far as the US to my idea of a good system

...oh, it's still there.

Meh

Originally posted by monument
What I did was obvious, unlike the way Wikipedia works.

Yes, if only they'd included some sort of "About" link at the top right of every page that explained what they did in clear, unambiguous terms. Something like:

Wikipedia is a free content encyclopedia being written collaboratively by contributors from around the world. The site is a wiki, which means that anyone can edit articles, simply by clicking on the edit this page link that appears at the top of each page:

Yeah, it's amazing that they haven't thought of something like that.