Sinn Féin's EU parliament allegiance

sceptre

Originally posted by monument
Note the text I put into that page.... ANY ONE CAN EDIT THIS TEXT. PAPER DOES NOT REFUSE INK....note it before another person edits it. (I’m just letting you know, I'm not saying anything on it is untrue. The top bit, which can not be edited, probably is fine)

I'm missing the point. Apart from demonstrating to yourself (because the rest of us probably already knew) that wikipedia is a co-operative site written by individual editors made up of anyone who can contribute and is constantly at the risk of being vandalised, is there a point?

Oh and stop adding crap to wikipedia. I like it.

the_syco

Originally posted by Mighty_Mouse
Have ye resorted to prayer already? Jasus! PPL must be fierce frightened of the Shinners growth!

The American compaies are; if the Shinners get into power, they'll increase corporate tax from 20% to 40%, so everyone can have a "fairer" system. That'll ensure all American companies, and all others that are trying to make a profit, go elsewhere.

Originally posted by monument
Cuba has a better health system then ours, the gangsters were run out of the country, and their economy would be far better if it was not for US restrictions.

Oh, sorry, I thought they were the ones in power (?!!).

Originally posted by monument
China’s economy is apparently soon to lead the world

They copped on what a car is. 2 years ago; everyone cycled. Now; big traffic jams. Goodbye oil.

Originally posted by monument
unlike right wing “democratic” places like India there is no mass amount of people starving on the streets.

Or starving people in their own homes, like commie Russia, when the leaders spent all their moola on buying guns...

Originally posted by monument
However, China could be just about as far as the US to my idea of a good system, I have problems with Cuba - but it would be nice to see it work with out a oppressive outside political systems interfering.

Like what the commies did to every country it could take over (the USSR)... Sure; look @ them now. The commies had such a great system, they had to shoot people to keep them in... :rolleyes:

ionapaul

the_syco, you have to have it wrong!

Sure the Cuban, Chinese, and Russian systems of communism were wonderful - witness the thousands/millions of Westerners and Americans trying desperately to get into each country just for the chance to live in the Socialist Paradise!

Blah, blah, blah the communist countries never got a chance, big bad America against them from the start, blah blah blah. History has spoken - communism didn't work, people risked death to escape it. Maybe the lure of MTV and McDonalds was too much to resist!

ionapaul

Now, if what you posted wasn't entirely accurately what you meant, don't you think you should clarify that?



You might want to clarify what you mean by "rejoining" the political arena. Dev was happily working in the political arena of the provisional government with criminals and murderes prior to the obtaining of independence.

jc [/B]

Clarification #1: I wouldn't have voted for Fianna Fail in the 20's or 30's. Wouldn't vote for Hitler in the 20's or 30's. Wouldn't vote for Sinn Fein now.

Clarification #2: Rejoining the political arena = founding Fianna Fail, taking the oath of allegiance.

Hope that makes sense.

sceptre

Originally posted by ionapaul
Clarification #2: Rejoining the political arena = founding Fianna Fail, taking the oath of allegiance.

Seems like such a subtle thing, doesn't it? Founding a new organisation, walking away from the old one. I'll ignore the oath of allegiance as I remember what de Valera said just before he signed it. As a subtle thing though, it's had a long tradition in this country's politics. And it can (and really should) potentially be taken to stand for something along the lines of "I leave this organisation, all the organisation's baggage of history, methods, aims and emotion and I walk with only my own baggage, my own new methods, my own aims, my own emotion and the organisation's experiences. I disassociate myself from this organisation I have been a part of and I repudiate their methods". Of course there's still the question of whether a new organisation is any better or worse than the old one but assuming they're different (and if you want to stake out your electoral claim, there'd better be a difference), it's not all that relevant. Brendan Behan had a few witty words to say about Irish organisations and split-scheduling but leaving the man's wit aside, a split is a split, and often a bitter split at that, even if it's occasionally carried out by fork-holding soup-catchers.

And while I've never necessarily been great a fan of de Valera, that's essentially what he did in 1926 (even if the abstentionist policy was the trigger). It's been done by Cumann na nGaedhael from SF[1], by Des O'Malley from FF and by Democratic Left from the Workers Party. It's also been done by Provisional Sinn Fein and the Provisional IRA in the split from the Officials and Republican Sinn Fein and whatever band of merry warriors (the Continuity IRA?) accompanied O'Brádaigh in the split from PSF. And obviously by the 32CSM and the somewhat ironically named RIRA in the split from PIRA (or IRA (P) as they were originally graffitally known). If they were taking the ball home in a huff rather than a few AK47s it'd almost be funny with the carry-on of them all.

The most substantial difference consists of the methods and aims you continue with, especially compared with the ones you do in fact dump after forming your "new" organisation. It's a potential repudiation of means, of methods and a formal announcement of a fresh start. And yet it's such a subtle thing in its own way.


[1]Though obviously they didn't have much choice. Mind you, the last thing we needed was to have a pile of parties knocking around all calling themselves "Sinn Fein" (even with the suffixes or prefixes of -Lite, -AllNewAndImproved, -Cherry Flavoured, Original-, Real-, Serious- and Imaginary-). We had enough trouble keeping up with which of the pile of bands calling themselves "Bucks Fizz" was which (btw this is the gently ironic humour section of the post).

ionapaul

Good post. I suppose for many of us the question we need to answer is:
'Did the events of the mid 90s onwards constitute a repudiation of Sinn Fein's traditional modus operandi and signify a new start'?

Originally posted by sceptre
I'll ignore the oath of allegiance as I remember what de Valera said just before he signed it.

Crikey Sceptre and I thought you were just a young fellah

monument

Originally posted by sceptre
Oh and stop adding crap to wikipedia. I like it.

Right, yes I will. I was wrong to do so in the first place - sorry.

Originally posted by the_syco
The American compaies are; if the Shinners get into power, they'll increase corporate tax from 20% to 40%, so everyone can have a "fairer" system. That'll ensure all American companies, and all others that are trying to make a profit, go elsewhere.

Maybe we shouldn’t have such a high dependence on US companies? Anyway, any one notice how many of them leave after they sponge off us? Sorry, I’m probably imagining it.

Originally posted by the_syco
Or starving people in their own homes, like commie Russia, when the leaders spent all their moola on buying guns...

If you look again I was replying to something about China. However, what about the staving people in currently in the US, when its government spends on guns? :rolleyes:

Originally posted by the_syco
Like what the commies did to every country it could take over

‘Communist’ is a wide ranging noun, what communists are you talking about?

Originally posted by the_syco
(the USSR)... Sure; look @ them now. The commies had such a great system, they had to shoot people to keep them in... :rolleyes:

Who here is defending every 'commie’ system in the world?