And I thought Irish roundabouts were bad....

dcGT

Take a look at this.... affectionately called 'the magic roundabout'
Why go clockwise, when you can anti-clockwise!

(If the links don't work, copy and paste them into a new browser)

http://aktiv-bilist.tripod.com/roundabout.JPG

http://aktiv-bilist.tripod.com/roundabout2.JPG

http://aktiv-bilist.tripod.com/roundabout3.JPG


We'll probably see these over here soon....with traffic lights added...just to make them feel Irish!

DC

ChipZilla

Yeah the old 'Magic Roundabout' in Swindon - I had the pleasure of navigating it a couple of years ago. I 'd love to know what the road planners were smoking when they came up with it...

Here's an aerial view for anyone wo had problems with original tripod links:

leeroybrown

The aliens obviously got bored with plain old crop circles.

seamus

I'm sure someone thought it was a good idea at the time. It's probably perfectly reasonable once you're used to it, but for noobies and foreigners.....

leeroybrown

Just close your eyes for a second and visualise an average morning worth of Irish motorists navigating one of these. Some people have trouble navigating a small single lane roundabout safely let alone something like this.

Merrion

It works much better than a standard roundabout under very high traffic volumes as those turning left have effectively got their own slip road and you'd only bother with the middle roundabout for going straight on or right. Of course the mini roundabouts are easily disrupted by articulated lorries and then chaos ensues....

mike65

The Place Concorde in Paris is apparently a life enhancing experience (ie you know you're alive as you battle traffic from all angles!) Place de Charles de Gaulle must be as bad judging by the map below.



Rounabout de lux



Place de la concorde


Mike.

PBC_1966

There's a big intersection on the edge of Colchester (Essex) which is about six roads converging at various angles. It used to be controlled by traffic lights, but when I went back there for the first time in many years they'd converted it to a monstrosity of a roundabout.

The best way to describe it is to picture a "normal" roundabout, with round central grass area. Now imagine two-way traffic on that roundabout, then where each of the roads meets this bigger circle, there is one of these stupid "mini" roundabouts. So it's basically a circle of six mini-roundabouts, in some cases with barely a car length between them. Mass confusion doesn't even begin to describe that intersection!

I really don't know what the British road planners have been up to in recent years. I'm convinced that none of the people who design these things actually drive......

secret_squirrel

I used to live in Swindon and actually passed my driving test when the route went over the magic roundabout. Its actually much easier to drive around than it looks. Its good in rush hour because every exit has two ways to get to it. - clockwise or anti-clockwise. Honest

Incidently it was renamed the magic roundabout from its original name by popular request from Swindonites

Kermitt

that roundabout in paris at the arc de triomphe is pure insanity.. 12 roads converging with no road markings and every man woman and child for themselves. i drove it once... in a hired renault twingo... very scary indeed

PBC_1966

Personally I think roundabouts are one of the silliest types of intersection anyway.

You get some large ones here with four or five lanes around them, and the marked directions jump about so that even locals have a job to get in the correct lane as they go round. Visitors to the area don't stand a chance, and either end up going round two or three times before being able to exit, or they try to stick to the outer lane all the way round, The latter doesn't always work, as some of these monstrosities have the outer lane peel off as an "exit only," so they either have to exit on the wrong road and hope for a place to turn round, or sit there blocking the exit hoping that somebody will let them move back into the traffic flow on the circle.

Roundabouts on busy city ring roads are terrible during the rush hour, when it's sometimes very difficult to get out into the flow from a minor road as the non-stop stream of traffic on the main ring just keeps approaching from your right.

Some of these have traffic lights on the circle. What that's supposed to achieve I don't know. If you're going to control the traffic with lights, why bother with the roundabout at all?

As for the "mini" roundabouts, otherwise known as bumps-in-the-road, they're an absolute waste of time.

So I'd be quite happy to see roundabouts scrapped entirely!

seamus

Originally posted by PBC_1966
So I'd be quite happy to see roundabouts scrapped entirely!

And replaced with what?

Although roundabout become troublesome when the traffic volume is high, it's quite possible to add in slip roads or more roundabouts to carry away the heaviest flows.

Junctions with traffic lights stop the traffic moving, which makes it possibly the worst junction you can put in.

The only perfect junction is one that consists entirely of slip roads - each traffic flow is independent - but it also gives a massive problem in that there's zero error correction. If you're not in the right lane, you're stuck there.

Victor

At peak times, traffic lights can handle more traffic than a roundabout - remember everyone is meant to stop at a roundabout also.

Slip roads have the nasty habit of allowing traffic go through the junction at speed, forgetting that there might be pedestrians, cyclists and motorcyclists.

Seth Brundle

basing this post on experiences for the M50/N4 interchange only, part of the cause of delays there is peoples inability to follow the correct lane. On my way into the city center in the morning, the middle lane is often blocked by traffic driving towards the M50 Southbound (not correct lane). They subsequently block traffic behind them which is heading into town.
At the same time traffic coming off the M50 Southbound almost always ends up parked on the yellow box, blocking traffic heading into town and onto the M50 south.
In the evenings, as Im heading out of Dublin, traffic flows up the land marked for the M50 North, and eventually sticks on their left indicators and move into the middle lane (direction N4). this causes traffic behind to slow down or stop which interrupts the neat flow.
All of the above do not happen when there is a visible garda presence on this roundabout which can save 5-10 minutes time just getting onto the roundabout.
These observations can be replicated accross the country but this is one of the worst roundabouts for it IMO.

ChipZilla

I have to agree with kbannon. Irish people haven't a clue how to use a roundabout with two or more lanes. The amount of times I've been in a right hand lane for turning right and some asshole on the left hand lane has driven all the way round on the outside and tried to cut me off for my exit...

You'd need bollards separating the lanes to keep people where they're supposed to be.:rolleyes:

PBC_1966

Originally posted by seamus
And replaced with what?

At busy city intersections, I'd prefer to see traffic lights. That would certainly help ease the problem I mentioned above of trying to get onto a ring-road roundabout from a minor road during rush-hour. Certainly in nearby Norwich you can sit for five minutes or more in such a situation just waiting for a gap to get out. I'm sure that there must be many minor accidents caused by this frustration making drivers "take a chance."

There are a couple of these roundabouts in Norwich where lights have been installed actually on the circle itself, so traffic stops half way round, backing up and blocking exits for traffic which has a green light. The scheme is crazy. These lights are switched off completely during quieter periods so that the roundabout operates "normally," if there is such a thing.

A regular traffic-light junction need not cause unnecessary delays during quieter periods if the British (and Irish?) authorities would adopt the American system of switching lights to flashing reds and amber during these times.

mike65

Originally posted by PBC_1966
There are a couple of these roundabouts in Norwich where lights have been installed actually on the circle itself, so traffic stops half way round, backing up and blocking exits for traffic which has a green light. The scheme is crazy. These lights are switched off completely during quieter periods so that the roundabout operates "normally," if there is such a thing.

The Red Cow aka Mad Cow roundabout where the N7 meets the Dublin M50 ring road has lights on it as does the Kinsale Road roundabout in Cork. I only use them rarely but in lightish daytime traffic they seem to just about work. Never been there at 5 pm though!

Kinsale Rd Cork

Cord Cow Dublin

Mike.

impr0v

Originally posted by kbannon
basing this post on experiences for the M50/N4 interchange only, part of the cause of delays there is peoples inability to follow the correct lane. On my way into the city center in the morning, the middle lane is often blocked by traffic driving towards the M50 Southbound (not correct lane). They subsequently block traffic behind them which is heading into town.
At the same time traffic coming off the M50 Southbound almost always ends up parked on the yellow box, blocking traffic heading into town and onto the M50 south.
In the evenings, as Im heading out of Dublin, traffic flows up the land marked for the M50 North, and eventually sticks on their left indicators and move into the middle lane (direction N4). this causes traffic behind to slow down or stop which interrupts the neat flow.
All of the above do not happen when there is a visible garda presence on this roundabout which can save 5-10 minutes time just getting onto the roundabout.
These observations can be replicated accross the country but this is one of the worst roundabouts for it IMO.

I use this roundabout quite a bit as well and know exactly what you mean, but in my experience people know exactly what lane they are supposed to be in and in that sense know how to use the roundabout. The problem is that they try to use the other lanes to selfishly get the jump on the people who are already queuing in the proper lane, and end up either blocking the wrong lane, or expecting some person further up the correct lane to considerately let them jump in, despite their own bad manners. I think this may have been what you were making reference to anyway, but I just thought I'd emphasise that the problem is more bad manners and selfish one-upmanship than an ignorance of how to use the junction.

Victor

Originally posted by mike65
Kinsale Rd Cork

Have they removed the cancerous growth that was the second roundabout off the main one?

seamus

Originally posted by Victor
At peak times, traffic lights can handle more traffic than a roundabout - remember everyone is mean tot stop at a roundabout also.

No, you're meant to give way. In fact, it's considered poor driving if you stop when's there's no need