SGA, Season 1, Episode 1+2: Rising [Spoilers]

User45701

I havent watched it yet but i wanted to post a poll i will edit this post with my view on the episode in a few hours

mr_angry

I get the feeling everyone is waiting for their "videotape posted from America", huh?

_CreeD_

I thought it was a great start to a new show, much better than the first Stargate opener. It has most of the same comfortableness and easy flow that you expect from SG, surprising with an all new (well mostly) cast.

Of course the acting was occasionally dodgy and overdone but that's to be expected, they'll settle into their characters in time, and it'll be interesting to see how they evolve over this season (just like Carter and O'neill went through quite a change over the first season of SG). The characters themselves aren' too far from the original team, mainly some alterations to the existing mix.
Shephard is almost a 100% younger O'Neill, not a bad thing.
Dr. Weir is a good counterpoint to Hammonds reasonable but by the book approach. She's neither too whimsical or too beaurocratic, a good mix.
As for the others, well none have really stood out so far, again we'll see as the season progresses.

The FX were top notch, the ship designs were generally good but the new PuddleJumpers stick out as pathetically boring. This doesn't fit with the aesthetic levels of the city and other examples of Ancient technology we've seen to date.

The overall storyline is promising and they launched into it well, not being too patronising and slow in rehashing Ancient's history etc. But there is still the blaringly obvious problem of how you create a story whereby Humans have any chance against a race that defeated the seemingly godlike technology of the Ancients. It's quickly explained as the Ancient's being overconfident and outnumbered but it's extremely weak when we see how easily the Wraith ship is entered, and subsequently left, by human troops. Maybe it's just me but I don't expect C4 to do serious damage to a ship that the Ancients didn't get round to destroying. The same goes for using a heavy machine gun to damage one of their fighters... Still if you can ignore that, which isn't too hard with the pace of the show, you'll enjoy it.

2 thumbs up.

Kevok

Yep, fully in agreement. As far as pilots go, this pretty much nailed it.

Venom

Just watched it and its a pretty good start. The main stars seem pretty cool but the new villians in the show are sooooooooo bad. Take the worst sci-fi villians from any star trek show, add in terriable design with crappy makeup and the worst reasion for them being the big bad guys and you have SG:A's new evil doers. This bunch make the kazon from Voyager seem cool and scary.

As stated this pilot is well done as sci-fi show pilot episodes go but it will now last. Not different enough from the parent show to see it last a few seasions.

Pepe LeFrits

Yeah, decent opener. The wraiths are pretty poor though. Far too similar to the Goa'uld, and how they defeated the Ancients i don't know.

User45701

I Enjoyed that very much.
Better than i thought it would be. I liked the charactor of the Major i dont like the city being over the ocean, it makes me feel uneasy.

To me the Wraith beatying the Anchients is quite plausable.
Its no different than 500 ppl with sticks attacking 3 ppl with guns the 500 ppl will win. So the ancients where outnumbers and unprepered. It does make sence.
Also remember the plauge that probbley helped there defeat along.
The pilot was far too simmilar to the pilot of SG1 - Still it was good tho.

The question is would those fighters match gou`auld mother ships, also what powers the fighters could tghey not extract that power device and use it to power the shield?
The Wraith arnt that si9mmilar to the gou`auld. They seem to suck the life from there enemies to kepp them living. Ok so that female wraith is dead so we dont have to worry bout the wraith knowing about earth.

I am looking forward to the next episode. Monday isent it? Along with a new episode of SG1?

Very enjoyable Episode.

EDIT: Wait the Wraith beating the anchients makes sence. The hologram said that the wraith where of tech equel to anchients and had more numbers so that makes perfect sence if u think about it.

Pepe LeFrits

They are so advanced yet they still have incredibly ineffective low flying aircraft that can get taken out by bazookas or machine gun fire, and no security to speak of in their facilities. Remind you of anyone?

The wraith are just the Goa'uld with a few minor changes.

ixoy

Well I liked the team, much like everyone else.
Sheppard - Indeed a younger O'Neill, although slightly more deadpan.
McKay - I've always liked - one of the few people of comparable intelligence to Carter, but a bit meaner.
Weir - Seems to be striking a good balance between team loyalty and thinking ahead. It'll take a while for her, in my head, to top the wonderful Hammond.
Teyla - Too early to judge. Nothing special yet, too much of a "lead civilian of the week".
Ford - Best character ever (because of his first name). OK a bit unfilled out yet, but he seems amiable enough. I liked the way he kept giving literal names for things (something McKay clearly agreed with).

The Wraiths are a bit weak so far - space-faring vampires? Also the head that they killed reminded me far too much of Marilyn Manson.... I'll give them time but a parasitic type lead? Yeah it is a bit too familiar.

User45701

Originally posted by kaids
They are so advanced yet they still have incredibly ineffective low flying aircraft that can get taken out by bazookas or machine gun fire, and no security to speak of in their facilities. Remind you of anyone?

The wraith are just the Goa'uld with a few minor changes.

They had no security cause there was no reason to have it.
Would u have guards in ur base on patrol for over 5 million years with not 1 single attack or anything. The wraith are clearley the domimant race in that galaxy with no match for them. There was no reason for them to have gaurds. Also with there life span would u be content with a guard job, patroling the same corrridor for 500 years let alone a million.

There ships where, well i dont quite know what to say about that. The new bullets we have now can passs through 52 layers of kevlar so emm how stong is Triniam again? Mabe the Wraith dont use there best attack craft, they only use there equilvent to a gou`auld glider.

mr_angry

The Wraith may simply be unprepared for the primitive nature of human weaponary. Assuming that they're so advanced, and any enemy they're used to fighting is also of a similar technological level, it makes reasonable sense that their defences are aimed at dealing with high-powered energy discharges, rather than metal projectiles.

Still though - you have to question why they don't have automated security systems at their base. Hell, we could manage that with today's technology here on Earth. I can see how User45701's logic regarding the security men comes together, but not why they don't have automated replacements.

User45701

Kinda like the replicators, energy weapons have no effect on them but primtive human projectile weapons can damage them.

I am going to guess that power cells and material like naquada triniam and other materals are very scarse in this galaxy so that is why in an entire city there was only 3 power cells.
I am guessing that that galaxy has very few if any natrel recorces and because of this the wraith wernt able to power automated defences. it would also explain why there species (or atleast almost all of them on that planet) was in stasis.

Im kinda rambleing here i had a point when i started but ive lost it now...

ixoy

You're making some good extrapolations there User! It would make sense that there's a low level of energy because otherwise I'm sure the Ancients would have stocked up their city's defenses more. I wonder what the Wraiths use to power their devices? Maybe harness the life-force that Marily Manson drained from the T1000 for all sorts of uses?

What would be interesting is if the Wraiths adopted themselves to be armoured against projectile weaponry. The Goa'uld are incredibly arrogrant, which is often what led to their defeat because the thought of someone marching into their base wouldn't even register. Will the Wraiths be similarly complacent given their dominance in the sector? And what do they have up their sleeves that they were so harmful to the Ancients? I mean the beam that swipes people up seems a good deal less sophisticated than Thor's beam on the Daniel Jackson (which could just snap up anyone from anywhere). Also are they united or in rival factions (like the System Lords)?

User45701

I think we could gues that the asguard and wraith "beam" weapon was orginly anchient tech. Both races adopted it to suit there own needs. The reason why the asguard 1 is better is because the asguard have enemys, like replicators and gou`auld.

War Breeds inovation, weapon research excells during times of war. If the wraith have had millions of years of no war then they would fall behind in the tech race.

Also i just thought of something. Is there a chance that the Wraith are actually the 4tth race? The Furlings?

Pepe LeFrits

Originally posted by User45701
They had no security cause there was no reason to have it.
Would u have guards in ur base on patrol for over 5 million years with not 1 single attack or anything. The wraith are clearley the domimant race in that galaxy with no match for them. There was no reason for them to have gaurds. Also with there life span would u be content with a guard job, patroling the same corrridor for 500 years let alone a million.

Yeah, I guess a sentry gun or some doors that require some form of identification would be too advanced for the conquerors of the Ancients...

There ships where, well i dont quite know what to say about that. The new bullets we have now can passs through 52 layers of kevlar so emm how stong is Triniam again? Mabe the Wraith dont use there best attack craft, they only use there equilvent to a gou`auld glider.

That really makes sense. "Alright vampires and vampirettes, let's use our really crappy, primitive ships so they can escape!"

If they really are as advanced as the Ancients, then why don't their ships have decent armor, shields, weapons that actually track people, decent speed and so on. At present, they don't look much more advanced than the Goa'uld, and considerably less advanced than the Asgard.

mr_angry

Having finally watched the episode, I now feel a bit more prepared to pass judgement...

I thought the script / plot suffered a bit from a lack of perceived professionalism. i.e. I thought the characters, in particular the major, were a bit too quick to throw in some ad lib smart comment when it wasn't really appropriate. I mean, if you're in the middle of a firefight with a completely unknown alien race, do you:
a. Stay focused on the task at hand, as your years of military training dictate?
b. Think of something witty to say to your comerades?
Personally, I would have thought veteran soldiers would have gone for option A, but apparently not. This guy was supposed to be in Afghanistan for God's sake! Was he throwing out these lines in Mazzar-e-sharif? Alright, its a sci-fi story, but even in the original Stargate film the backup plan was the tried and trusted tactic of nuking Abidos if it all went wrong. Even in previous SG-1 episodes, the military tactics have often stood out - finding good cover, etc. All of that seemed to be missing during this episode. Hopefully they'll come back to a little more gritty realism in future episodes (one of the things I felt made SG-1 great). And frankly, I think throwing a party at the end, despite losing some of the team, and the indigenous people losing some of their families, and all of their homes... totally unrealistic. In fact, I think the whole episode had an air of unreality about it.

Despite that little rant, I thought it was a very good start to the series. If it weren't for that sense of unreality, I think it would have been top-class. I was surprised that they ditched the need for translation of the ancient language though - something we'd seen many times before. Suddenly they could operate an entire base competently. Realistic? Again, I think the answer is no. Of course, I'm nitpicking here, but I think its the attention to detail that has given Stargate the appeal that it has. Hopefully they'll return to some of the nitty-gritty day to day stuff when it all settles down.

I thought the Wraith were good as an enemy - possibly over-dramatised a little, but not bad. I get the feeling that we haven't seen the true extent of their power yet, as the location we saw in the episode was effectively only a dormitory. It'll be interesting to see if Atlantis is left completely isolated in Pegasus, or if contact is established with Earth again quickly. If they keep going through cast members at the rate they are now, they'll be needing re-enforcements soon...

User45701

Originally posted by kaids
Yeah, I guess a sentry gun or some doors that require some form of identification would be too advanced for the conquerors of the Ancients...

That really makes sense. "Alright vampires and vampirettes, let's use our really crappy, primitive ships so they can escape!"

You make a good point about the security doors.

The reason they would not use there best ships is because there is no reason 2. That was probbley the first time in 5-10 million years they ever lost a fight. There was no reason to have there best ships to attack "ptimtives"

Originally posted by kaids

If they really are as advanced as the Ancients, then why don't their ships have decent armor, shields, weapons that actually track people, decent speed and so on. At present, they don't look much more advanced than the Goa'uld, and considerably less advanced than the Asgard.

As i said aready War breeds inovation. These Wraith probbley stole anchient transport beam tech (the asguard probbley borrowed it aswell) The asguard version of the weapon is more advanced because they have enemies to fight.
Still tho it is odd that a wraith attack ship was damaged by gun fire.
Perhaps primtive gun fire can pass through shields?

Pepe LeFrits

Originally posted by User45701
You make a good point about the security doors.

The reason they would not use there best ships is because there is no reason 2. That was probbley the first time in 5-10 million years they ever lost a fight. There was no reason to have there best ships to attack "ptimtives"

they didnt think they needed their best ships when they were going up against a clearly superior ship of the ancients (which they would have encountered many times before)?

As i said aready War breeds inovation. These Wraith probbley stole anchient transport beam tech (the asguard probbley borrowed it aswell) The asguard version of the weapon is more advanced because they have enemies to fight.

thats a complete cop-out. the wraith beat the ancients, whose technology the asgard can't even understand. and yet somehow the asgard are more advanced than the wraith. having ships that can withstand some basic concussive force isn't anything to do with innovation, it's about having a few working brain cells that you'd think the conquerors of the gate builders would have.

Draupnir

id imagine we havent quite seen the full extent of the wraith, as mentioned above. if you think about it this way, they were sending three small ships to collect "food" from a world which hadnt had any kind of threat on it for millions of years. i think its quite plausible for gun fire to destroy the ship in the same way replicators can be destroyed by it. I doubt the Ancients ever used projectile weapons to try to defeat the wraith either since they were probably too "advanced". Many times in Stargate, it has been explained that our "youth" as a race gives us an advantage.

now that the other wraith have awakened, it looks like there are hundreds of thousands of them, so i can understand how the ancients were over run.

as regards doors that identified people. the cell doors seemed to be almost organic and only opened when the three wraith approached, not when sheppard approached. this probably seemed like security enough to the wraith.

the queen knew instantly that earth was not in the pegasus galaxy. if they know their entire galaxy inside out, and all the peoples/potential threats that there are, perhaps they didnt think there was any chance of them being attacked. complacency?

User45701

Originally posted by mr_angry
Despite that little rant, I thought it was a very good start to the series. If it weren't for that sense of unreality, I think it would have been top-class. I was surprised that they ditched the need for translation of the ancient language though - something we'd seen many times before. Suddenly they could operate an entire base competently. Realistic? Again, I think the answer is no. Of course, I'm nitpicking here, but I think its the attention to detail that has given Stargate the appeal that it has. Hopefully they'll return to some of the nitty-gritty day to day stuff when it all settles down.

As i remember the base powerd itself up?
And dialing the gate was explained it was very simple and the shield aroung the gate was just a big button beside the gate dialer.

The only other thing they operated was the ship, that was also explained because it was designed for humans (anchients) So it was just simply 2 joysticks.
U where right about how simple it was so fire the weapons. comething like that is more complicated and they shoukldent have been able to attack the wraith ships.

Draupnir

didnt you watch the show or listen? certain humans have a gene which allows them to control ancient technology just by thinking of what they want done.

"Id like to shoot that ship with a weapon please".

Bam, ship does it.

_CreeD_

There's always going to be some stretching of your suspension-of-disbelief in any show. Some we accept some we don't. For me the language thing doesn't bother me, no it doesn't make any sense but then it'd be a very hard show to watch if they had to translate a language for every race they meet. Same goes for atmospheres, alien bacteria/virii and the fact that almost every planet they visit only has 50 or so people conveniently located in one or two towns near the gate. There's only so much you can do with a TV budget, and only so much time to tell the story without overcomplicating it, so I accept all that.
But having ships capable of interstellar travel, and withstanding all of the stresses involved, that can't take a few bullets is ludicrous - regardless of the possible reasoning it has been suggested the Wraith had. Also while a parallel has been drawn between the Replicator/Asgard situation and the Wraith's susceptibility to bullets, do you really think a race intelligent enough to have matched the Ancients technology couldn't come up with materials/ideas on how to combat primitive concussive weaponry? All they'd need is a history book.... It'll be interesting to see if this remains the status quo or not.
It's still fun but I think the writers have shot themselves in the foot by being too ambitious with the new nemesis race, unless they plan to have the Wraith improve from their possibly complacent state (which is a plausable theory, just not one I think they really thought if incorporating) and the Human outpost folkslearn to use Ancient tech to a level where they can match it.

mr_angry

Originally posted by Draupnir
didnt you watch the show or listen? certain humans have a gene which allows them to control ancient technology just by thinking of what they want done.

"Id like to shoot that ship with a weapon please".

Bam, ship does it.

I'm aware of the reasoning displayed in the episode, thank you Draupnir. What I'm trying to say is that it wasn't consistent with earlier episodes of the SG-1 timeline. Plenty more things went on in the episode that seemed inconsistent - their ability to monitor the power levels of the barrier around Atlantis, etc., etc.

Now, I know they've been working on the Ancient technology at Antartica for months previous to this, but judging by the amount of trouble Daniel (a linguistics expert) had in deciphering the rudiments of the Ancient language, and the fact that there was an eighth chevron in the dialing sequence, I'm surprised that the Atlantis party were able to find their way around an entire Ancient city without the need for a single translator. Does that seem unreasonable?

I think the most startling example was the hologram found by the Scottish guy. There was no evidence whatsoever before this point that the Ancients ever catered for other languages (in fact, the opposite appeared to be the case), and yet the holographic woman communicated in perfect English. None of the Ancient technology discovered before ever indicated this possibility, and the woman they discovered in Antartica in the episode "Frozen" displayed no oral communicative abilities at all.

User45701

You mkae a very good point my angry. The anchients didnt seem to have any oral capabality.
In fact to comunicate with one another
The Nox
The Anchients
The Asguard
and The Furlings had to use a single univercial launguage to comuncate.

Draupnir

Nobody can argue that point, the communication issue is a slight problem, it does seem strange, the perfect English. Be a tough show to watch if they were trying to translate it all though.

Always was a bit mad the way every planet SG-1 went to had English speakers only on it.

ixoy

Originally posted by Draupnir
Always was a bit mad the way every planet SG-1 went to had English speakers only on it.

I did like the way they picked up on it in "Wormhole X-Treme!" when one of the actors is grumbling about plot plausibility, the retort is: "Well they all speak English don't they!"
Still I'd like to see them attempt an explanation, given they've done everything else...

Stark

It's always the same explanation really. Some device that does the translation -

Babelfish (hitchhikers guide to the galaxy)
universal translators (star trek)
translator microbes (farscape)


Dunno what babylon 5 has (haven't watched it all yet).

Maybe it's good old fashioned American arrogance that helps all the worlds to speak English How else would they get the humour of the Simpsons otherwise.

Maybe people on other worlds have superior linguistic capabilites and can pick up our language quickly just as young children do?

mr_angry

Babylon 5 had no translators actually. Most of the council members learned English, since it was an Earth-mediated organisation, but they conversed among themselves in their own languages frequently.

bizmark

Ok i caved to the dark side and er got a copy sent to me from america by a friend TM

I liked it but theres a few problems

1. Why are the wrath so weak there ships cause minor thermal damage and that’s about it
2. The acting was a bit dodgy at times but it’s only the first episode so meh
3. The puddle jumper <-- crap name
4. The wraith looks a bit gay tbh
5.The pilot seemed very much like the first episode of stargate sg1 make friends with the less advanced race piss off the more advanced race etc but its different enough to be its own show so i guess if it isn’t broken don’t fix it.

But other than that it rocked bells tbh

User45701

I knew it!
When i saw last post by Bizmark i said to myself, Excelent Bizmark has embraced the dark side. and then u said dark side aswell so thats a nice little lol...

Ye as someone elce metioned above the writers shot themselves in the foot with the weak wraith ships. As for it being the same as the first SG1 episode ye thats right but there just going with what they know until they get into the roles.

Then again SG1 is a good show well written and good plots so i would expect tghe same from athlantis. Is it the same writers as SG1? For all we know they could have very good reasons for the wraith being "weak"

bizmark

Its made by the same producers not sure about writing staff.

why would they show them as weak ? our aircraft today could easly cause more damage than the wraith ships 1 missle into stargate atlantis hq and bye bye team.....Anyway we will see how they develope