Weekend SFC Results and Thoughts

redspider

After the Sat games, the results are:

SFC qualifiers:
COR 0-12 0-18 FER (FT)
GAL 0-11 1-16 TYR (FT)
DER 2-16 2-5 WEX (FT)


A complete whitewash for Ulster teams. I saw bits of the Cork-Fermanagh match, most of the seond half and Fermanagh fully deserved their victory. On this forum on another thread I put forward that Fermanagh had a good chance to win against Cork, and this proved to be the case. I guess what was amazing for me was the way they played when 0-10 to 0-7 behind, they completely blitzed Cork. However, both teams perforances need to be put into perspective. Both teams seem to me to have a lot of young and light players, who I think might struggle against other teams. The marking was poor andx lax and lost of open positions and play resulted. fermanagh capitalised on the open space and scored with aplomb. Cork are a shadow of their teams of old and the demise of Cork football looks to continue, unless they get a Mick O or a Paudi factor coming in. I dont know their state of minor football.

I saw all of the Galway v Tyrone match. Tyone always had the capability on the pitch to beat Galway, but there were a few twists. Tyrone missed an early goal scoring opportunity but still pulled away with a goal. Galway came back into the match and were very unlucky not to score a goal. First, a penalty was awarded dubiously to them but they scuffed the shot, so a fair result. But then they came close and later on they also hit the post. The game as a spectacle wast great as there was a very long spell in the middle of the game with hardly any score. From the 19th to the 38th minutes, there was only 1 point. As the 15 mins of half-time was also in there that was nearly 35 mins of viewing with just one score!

I didnt see the Derry/Wexford match, but reading the match reports it would seem that Derry were in complete control and desevred this victory. Forde was kept under wraps to a 1-04 total and the match as a contest was seemingly over by half-time.


There are 5 Ulster teams remaining, what are the chances that an Ulster team will win Sam now?


The games today should also be good ones:

Connacht SFC
ROS v MAY
Leinster SFC
LAO v WES
Munster SFC
LIM v KER


As I said elsewhere, I think Westmeath have an equal chance to beat Laois today and I predict a close game. Westmeath are very much up for it. I feel that Limerick's heads may go down if they get a bit behind against Kerry. Limerick deserved the win last week and were unlucky not to finish Kerry off, they had the chances. In terms of Ros/May, that match could go either way. Roscommon are an inconsistent team but on their day can be very good. I think Mayo fans should not get carried away by their win over Galway. Significant as it may have been in other years, it counts for nothing this year.

Waylander

Well, Roscommon are an awful team. Am interested to hear what tmt has to say about todays final! Mayo again impressed me, again Mc Donald and Conor Mortimer were very sharp.

cournioni

Well I wouldn't say they're awful. But they are desperately inconsistant. As much as people say Shane Curran is a character and he lifts the team, I think its true to a certain extent. But in games like the Connacht final when the players are nervous he shouldn't be clowning about like he was. It only makes players more nervous.

They rely too much on Frankie Dolan too.

Kieran McDonald is a class act. Some of his passing was out of this world.

redspider

ROS 0-9 2-13 MAY (FT)
LIM 2-9 3-10 KER (FT)
LAO 0-13 0-13 WES (FT)

Mayo fully deserved their win. It has to be said that Roscommon were majorly bad though. Frankie Dolan had a terrible game and should have been taken off before half time and definitely removed from free taking duties. Mayo show flashes, McDonald's passing was excellent, but I dont think they are Sam contenders.

Limerick had a great start against Kerry - I was surprised by their resilience. Kerry came back though with goals and exploited the Limerick defence which is their weak link imo. Limerick even had the "cheek" to rally again and bring back the gap to just one point but Kerry went ahead again. Kerry deserved their victory and Limerick will be rueing over the missed opportunity they had to take this fine scalp in the first drawn match. These chances dont come often.

I had expected the Laois/Westmeath game to be close and I was proven right. It could have gone either way but in the final run-up it was Westmeath's for the taking. Laois by their own admission (Mick O) were rusty and this was their first real challenge of the championship. Some have been saying that they are Sam contenders, I still dont think so. I think Laois will be in a stronger position to win the replay, but it should once again be close.

The draw for the qualifiers is as follows:

Tyrone v Laois/Westmeath
Derry v Limerick
Fermanagh v Donegal
Dublin v Roscommon

I think that Tyrone, although weaker than last year, should take whoever comes out of that replay. Derry may struggle against Limerick. I think it will be close as both teams can struggle at times. Donegal should have the edge against Fermanagh, although not by much. Dublin should breeze past Roscommon.

Its coming down to the last 8 - things are hotting up.

Yavvy

Tyrone v Laois/Westmeath
Derry v Limerick
Fermanagh v Donegal
Dublin v Roscommon


Im not to sure about Tyrone V Westmeath ( thats my pridiction) I think Its too close to tell to be honest. Galway footballers had a really bad day and tyrone peaked ... To close to tell yet.

I expect derry to beat Limerick. They will be too tired after 2 huge games against Kerry while Derry breezed past the yeller bellies.

Donegal will beat Fermanagh but just about, donegal have bigger men and can defend much better than cork.

I hope the dubs can brush off the rossies, but I doubt it will be that easy. I expect the rossies go give us a close game (4-5 points) but loose towards the end. It will be enjoyable to here TMT's views as always.

laoisfan

hi
thought yesterdays game between laois-westmeath ended in a fair result. overall, westmeath were better than laois but did not deserve to win the match though neither did laois deserve to lose. a good game, both sides missed a lot of chances, i think laois had 11 wides to westmeaths 9.

the replay should be a cracker, hopefully laois should wake up to themselves.

well the minors, good to beat kildare (hard luck kildare).

UP LAOIS!!

--laoisfan

redspider

Betting Odds changes:

Just following up on the trends in betting odds, all are from Paddy Power. Kerry are still very short imo and reflects the amount of money placed on them. Laois drift outwards as I expected. Tyrone are the big mover upwards followed by Mayo.

19-Jul-04 1.612 change
Armagh 5 - 2 0.400 0.000
Kerry 5 - 2 0.400 0.000
Tyrone 4 - 1 0.250 0.139
Mayo 7 - 1 0.143 0.060
Laois 8 - 1 0.125 -0.029
Dublin 12 - 1 0.083 0.021
Donegal 18 - 1 0.056 0.000
Westmeath 20 - 1 0.050 0.010
Derry 22 - 1 0.045 0.020
Limerick 40 - 1 0.025 -0.015
Roscommon 50 - 1 0.020 -0.010
Fermanagh 66 - 1 0.015 0.005


12-Jul-04 1.570 change
Armagh 5 - 2 0.400 0.178
Kerry 5 - 2 0.400 -0.044
Laois 13 - 2 0.154 0.000
Tyrone 9 - 1 0.111 0.000
Galway 12 - 1 0.083 0.000
Mayo 12 - 1 0.083 0.000
Cork 16 - 1 0.063 0.000
Dublin 16 - 1 0.063 -0.009
Donegal 18 - 1 0.056 -0.087
Limerick 25 - 1 0.040 -0.010
Westmeath 25 - 1 0.040 0.000
Roscommon 33 - 1 0.030 -0.005
Derry 40 - 1 0.025 0.000
Wexford 80 - 1 0.013 0.006
Fermanagh 100 - 1 0.010 0.003


early July 1.563
Kerry 9 - 4 0.444 2.25
Armagh 9 - 2 0.222 4.5
Laois 13 - 2 0.154 6.5
Donegal 7 - 1 0.143 7
Tyrone 9 - 1 0.111 9
Galway 12 - 1 0.083 12
Mayo 12 - 1 0.083 12
Dublin 14 - 1 0.071 14
Cork 16 - 1 0.063 16
Limerick 20 - 1 0.050 20
Westmeath 25 - 1 0.040 25
Roscommon 28 - 1 0.036 28
Derry 40 - 1 0.025 40
Offaly 50 - 1 0.020 50
Wexford 150 - 1 0.007 150
Fermanagh 150 - 1 0.007 150
Longford 250 - 1 0.004 250

Mighty_Mouse

Well, Roscommon are an awful team. Am interested to hear what tmt has to say about todays final!

Well after an awful performance yesterday I still wouldnt go as far to call them an awful team!! They were a top 8 team last year and are one game away from being the same this year.

The team has failed to build on last year with many key players looking unenergetic and lazy. Frankie Dolan kicked 1-3, 13,12 in his last three performances in 03 (kerry, kildare, offaly) so I think most county teams would tend to rely on him!

Also this year Karol Mannion looked the part at full forward, Johnny Dunning, Hanly, Cox(last year more so) all looked like being able to contribute scores.

I have a real problem with decisions made on the sideline yesterday and that was a jackeen in control! I'm not taking from Mayo's victory but how T Carr could of though leaving K McDonald unmarked for the whole game, taking off Hanly, Tiernan, Dunning for Connellen and Henegan, taking K Mannion from full forward were all fantastic ideas, i'll never know. It was tactically brainless and frustrating stuff. Everyone but Carr knows mannion is crap outside of fullforward. Dinneen should of been on earlier. He was fecking waiting til half time to make decisions and by that stage it was a case of rearranging deck chairs on the titanic

Also whats the point in bringing back Jimmy Nail if your not gonna use him!!!

thirdmantackle

Didn't know i was held in such high regard round here...

I'm giving up on this Ros team if Carr doesn't wake up and smell the coffee. He has to start playing players in their natural positions. I hate going to Croker and sitting down. I'd much prefer to be in the hill (even surrounded by Dubs)

You never know what the Ros will do - but with reports coming out of fights in the dressing room at half time and general player apathy it doesn't look good

Its time to give some new players a chance and cut loose - "where's your f**king pride?"

Waylander

I think you boys are being very harsh on Tommy here. When only two of your fifteen players perform there is not much you can do. The two I felt performed were Grehan, even though he had to leave Mc Donald alot to get the attack going, and O Neill. The rest were all very poor, and the guy who missed the two goals should be kicking himself as if the first and easiest chance had gone in it may have been different.

Yavvy

Waylander its impossible to be too harsh on Carr...he is a dip ****.

There is no way he can manage a team above top 8 level and thats what the rossies are aming for. I agree the mayo game wasnt all his fault, Mayo were excellent ( as they have been at home all year) and a lot of the roscommon players just didnt get going. but he is the manager, he got his tactics (if any) totally wrong.

Waylander

When thirteen players are playing below par, and you only have 5 substitutions, you can only have so much effect.

Yavvy

but part of his job must be getting the players into the right frame of mind. getting them ready for the big games and for so many players to under perform I think some of the blame must rest with him

Waylander

Yeah, I agree part of the blame must lie with the manager. Motivating the team is definitely his responsibility, but the players have got to take a part of the blame also. Mighty Mouse and TMT were laying all the blame with Tommy Carr which is what I thought was harsh.

Mighty_Mouse

Mighty Mouse and TMT were laying all the blame with Tommy Carr which is what I thought was harsh.

Did I? Where exactly? Let me clarify:

many key players looking unenergetic and lazy.

The team let themselves down and will need to be right mentally for croker. However, you cannot get away from the fact that Carr lost the sideline battle last weekend. (I still think Mayo would of won) but how can you leave K McDonald free to play his own game!

Again unless the team completely ignored him, there were dodgy decisions made.

redspider

In terms of the Roscommon debate, I dont think they have enough quality players in general and they definitely have been playing hot and cold over the last few years. However, that was also the case before Carr arrived.

Carr can only go so far with the players that he has and I agree that there is a case for faulting him, but only to a partial extent. If anything for not reacting quick enough with subs and change of tactics and for not getting the players in a better state of mind as people have pointed out. But tbh he had very little to work with so for me most of the blame has to rest with the players, and not with Carr. Roscommon didnat have someone that could man mark McDonald, so the "nearest player pick him up" tactic just didnt work well. Also, credit should be given to Mayo and John Maughan for the way they played and they way he set them up, etc.

Basically, Roscommon were just not good enough and I dont think they will be good enough for Dublin.

Mighty_Mouse

I dont think they have enough quality players in general and they definitely have been playing hot and cold over the last few years

I completely agree but I still dont believe they are playing to their full potential.

Carr can only go so far with the players that he has

there is a case for faulting him, but only to a partial extent

Again I agree but I really think that his tactics were more than partially to blame.

Roscommon didnat have someone that could man mark McDonald,

Not true, Roscommon have been blessed with a scatter of real good backs the last two years. I could name 3-4 that would expect to do a reasonable job on McDonald.

Basically, Roscommon were just not good enough and I dont think they will be good enough for Dublin.

Roscommon werent good enough. But what have we seen from Dublin so far this year. I think/hope Roscommon will have enough for a poor Dublin team. A mentally-solid, physical, tactically astute Roscommon team could make a good game of it.

cruiserweight

I think that the Roscommon vs Dublin game depends on which Dublin and which Roscommon turn up.

So far this year Roscommon have needed replays to beat Sligo and Leitrim, and were very poor against Mayo and failed to win promotion to division one in the league. However they have good players and in the last few years have proved that they can do well in the championship.

Dublin blow hot and cold, and not just from game to game but within games.

I expect it to be a close game with Dublin coming out on top eventually! Although if Roscommon hit form on the day, who knows. I think that overall Dublin will be happy with the draw, it is probably the best draw that they could have gotten!

Mighty_Mouse

I dunno. This Roscommon team must be feeling pretty bad about last weekend and will also want to put last years first half performance against Kerry to rest. I really don't rate this Dublin team and would think that both are their typical best would result in a Roscommon win.

As for scrapping over Sligo and Leitrim. Both of these teams performed extremely well against Roscommon and this Roscommon team has a history of just doing enough. If both teams turn up mentally right and the game is close near the end. I'd put my house on Roscommon.

Waylander

Mighty Mouse I think you are looking through Rose tinited glasses there. I think Dublin would have to play poorly for Roscommon to win, but this is not beyond Dublin. I think if both teams are playing reasonably well Dublin will win by a few points. The only opposition we have in common with Roscommon this year is Leitrim, and the difference in result there is fairly stark. I admit I am probably being unfair on Roscommon but i do not see them play very often, in fact the last time I watched a Rossie game before the Connaught final was probably last years Kerry game. As regards Mc Donald, I did not see one back who made me think he could mark Mc Donald out of the gamein the Connaught final.

Mighty_Mouse

As regards Mc Donald, I did not see one back who made me think he could mark Mc Donald out of the gamein the Connaught final.

based on viewing two of the worst performances from Roscommon in the last 2 years!! I would of selected David Casey on him and would of been confident enough of it been game over for McDonald.

I think you are looking through Rose tinited glasses there

as opposed to your crystal clear Dublin ones?

The only opposition we have in common with Roscommon this year is Leitrim, and the difference in result there is fairly stark

I hope the Dubs keep telling themselves this!! The difference in performance from Leitrim in both those games was stark. (Dub struggled in the first half if i'm right)

I think the Ros back unit is one of better in the Country (outside Armagh, Tyrone, Kerry) and I would be very confident of them keeping a weak Dublin forward line quite. John White can be expected to snuff out Sherlock for a start. At midfield hopefully Ciaran Whelan will pull his usual big day disappearing act and Semi o Neill will decide to keep playing into a second half. Up front Ros have absolutely no firepower at the moment but if Frankie Gets the finger out.......gameon!